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Update Suggestions to The Rules


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Crisha
Moderator


Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 4290
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:24 am Reply with quote
^Thanks for the feedback, configspace, and I like the suggestion Updated my post.


Also, a part of me feels like rules with longer sub-rules (i.e. the Commerce rule) can be cut down as well. Anyone wanna take a stab at cutting out unnecessary info?
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TsunaReborn!



Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 4713
Location: Cheltenham UK
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:18 pm Reply with quote
I thought I would have a go at commerce - essentially trimming the fat and changing the wording slightly to fit:

[*]Commerce
  1. No Commerce is allowed outside of either the Retail or Subscriber Personal Sales Forum (see rules for Subscribers here). Users may not post their own commercial endeavours nor link to commercial websites unless specifically requested by another poster. Users who have been hired to advertise for specific items will be banned.
  2. Commerce in the Retail Forum is limited to commercial websites only. Links to online auctions or a users commercial endeavours are not permitted in the regular retail forum. Websites that sell items in violation of Rule #8 will be removed and their URLs banned.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:52 pm Reply with quote
Here's my suggestion to updating Rule 6. Condense it a bit.

A. Moderators have the right to lock, delete or modify any post at any time for any reason. If a thread is locked, that means the subject may not be brought up again. Moderators are volunteers; they lack the time to read every single post. If you come across a questionable/objectionable post or thread that you think needs to be reviewed, then please click on the red-exclamation-mark icon and fill out the accompanying form.

B. No "Back Seat Moderating." If you know a thread is going to be locked, do not post in it, posting in threads that are clearly going to be locked will be dealt with as "trolling " type behavior. Do not berate posters for breaking the rules, that is the job of the ANN moderators and admins. Please report the post and, if you think it is necessary, contact a moderator or admin.

For necro posting in rule #10 we need to add that official weekly columns are also exempt. I can do it for you but I figured I'd ask first before touching your baby lol.

Also, I don't see Rule 1a as being updated. Still looks the same. Or am I simply reading it wrong?
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 5120
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:58 pm Reply with quote
^
She changed the 1st sentence to reflect configspace's recommendation. She kept the 2nd sentence as-is.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:08 pm Reply with quote
nobahn wrote:
^
She changed the 1st sentence to reflect configspace's recommendation. She kept the 2nd sentence as-is.

Unless I am mistaken I read configspace's post to mean leave rule 1.A simply as
Quote:
Harassing, slanderous, threatening, dangerous or illegal material will be removed from the forum by moderators.
and nothing else. Dropping the second part altogether.
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 5120
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:31 pm Reply with quote
^
I believe (Could be wrong, of course!) that willag elected to keep the 2nd sentence.
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 10419
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:23 pm Reply with quote
nobahn wrote:
^
I believe (Could be wrong, of course!) that willag elected to keep the 2nd sentence.


You can remove the second part. I'll move it to the privacy policy.
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Crisha
Moderator


Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 4290
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:30 pm Reply with quote
Updated again!

Disclaimer: All posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author, not Anime News Network. Additionally, statements by Anime News Network staff on this forum are personal opinions and may not reflect the views of Anime News Network as a whole.

  1. Above all else: Be Polite
    1. Harassing, slanderous, threatening, dangerous or illegal material will be removed from the forum by moderators.
    2. Swearing is frowned upon. If you disagree with a poster, disagree respectfully, or do not disagree at all.
    3. Many people first come to our forum to ask questions on how or why. Please treat them with respect. Do not respond to questions from new visitors with sarcasm and/or hostility. If you are unable to provide a polite answer, then don't say anything at all.

  2. Stay on topic
    1. Discussion should be related to anime, anime news, Anime News Network, the forum topic, or in some way relevant to this website. Excessively off-topic ("OT") posts will be locked or deleted.

  3. All conversations must be in English on the forums and all users are expected to have a working knowledge of proper English
    1. We are not an IM chatroom; we expect proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation.
    2. If English is your Second Language, please say so in your first post. If you have a disability that impacts your writing ability (e.g., dyslexia), then please say so in your first post.

  4. Post relevant, thoughtful responses; avoid lists and one-liners
    1. Discussions should carry some measure of intelligence to them. Consider if what you are writing is relevant or important to others. If it does not contribute to the discussion, then do not post it.
    2. Please post detailed answers to questions; lists and one-liners do not contribute. A more in-depth discussion about listing and one-liners can be found here.

  5. Do not excessively quote
    1. If you are responding to a single idea, quote only that relevant part. Elaboration on what constitutes as excessive quoting and how to avoid it can be found here.

  6. Moderation
    1. Moderators have the right to lock, delete or modify any post at any time for any reason. If a thread is locked, that means the subject may not be brought up again. Moderators are volunteers; they lack the time to read every single post. If you come across a questionable/objectionable post or thread that you think needs to be reviewed, then please click on the red-exclamation-mark icon and fill out the accompanying form.
    2. No "Back Seat Moderating." If you know a thread is going to be locked, do not post in it. Do not berate posters for breaking the rules, that is the job of the ANN moderators and admins. Please report the post and, if you think it is necessary, contact a moderator or admin.

  7. Commerce
    1. No Commerce is allowed outside of either the Retail or Subscriber Personal Sales Forum (see rules for Subscribers here). Users may not post their own commercial endeavors nor link to commercial websites unless specifically requested by another poster. Users who have been hired to advertise for specific items will be banned.
    2. Commerce in the Retail Forum is limited to commercial websites only. Links to online auctions or a user's commercial endeavor are not permitted in the regular retail forum. Websites that sell items in violation of Rule #8 will be removed and their URLs banned.

  8. No bootlegs, fansubs, scanlations, etc.
    1. Users may not request or link to bootlegs, fansubs, scanlations, active fan-translating groups, peer-to-peer networks, timed scripts, MP3s, unauthorized movie clips, or websites that house these groups or products. Links to and discussions about websites that provide authorized, legal downloads are permitted.

  9. Use the search engine and read the site
    1. This should be obvious, but people regularly ask questions that have recently been covered in other forum threads or in ANN's articles. So before asking a question, put the keywords into the ANN search engine and the forum search engine. Checking the Encyclopedia may be a good idea too! (depending on your question).
    2. Do not make threads or posts requesting when an anime is going to get another season, license, dub, etc. If there's any kind of official news in regards to additional anime seasons, licenses, dubs, etc. ANN will be sure to report it. Use the Encyclopedia and search engine to see if any official announcements or news were made on the subject. Further discussion on speculations can be found here.

  10. No necroposting except where allowed
    1. Necroposting is the act of resurrecting very old threads. Threads in the Talkback Forums have 2 months of shelf life from the date of the latest forum post. All other threads have 12 months of shelf life from the date of the last post made.
    2. Exceptions to the necroposting rule include:

      Those threads do not time out. Further discussion on necroposting can be found here.

  11. When in doubt about spoilers, use spoiler tags
    1. Guidelines on when to use spoiler tags can be found here


Last edited by Crisha on Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:54 pm Reply with quote
Should there be a line about recommendation questions being limited to the official recommendation threads with a link to the recommendation meta-thread?
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Alan45
Village Elder



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:36 am Reply with quote
@nobahn

The ban on recommendations effects primarily the anime and to some extent the manga forums. It is perhaps best to leave it out of the rules that pertain to the site as a whole.

"A Modest Proposal"

I'm not sure I really understand why recommendation threads are so anathema. I gather that in their frequency they can be a bit annoying but it seems a minor problem in the long run. In addition, the rule doesn't seem to have actually prevented such requests. Several get locked each week, usually on the posters first post.

What I'm proposing is that recommendations be allowed to be requested and answered with the understanding that they are in compliance with the "meaningful discussion" requirement. That is that the person requesting a recommendation be required to explain what they are looking for in some detail. Further the person responding must explain how the recommended show complies with the request. No lists basically.

If the requester says something like "I just watched Inu Yasha what is like that", point them to the genre search or specific recommendation threads and lock the request. If they just give a list of shows watched, point out the no list requirement and again refer them and lock the thread. This is essentially what is being done now anyway so no additional moderator work would be required.

If, after a request, they explain just what they are looking for, allow other forum members to make thought out responses, again no lists. If no one responds the thread will migrate off the page fairly quickly in any case.

In this connection, I note that the "Anime Hunting" thread, contains an awful lot of recommendations for a thread dedicated to no recommendations. Apparently there is no real problem with extended responses. Also the presence of dedicated recommendation threads has always seemed a bit contradictory with the "No recommendation threads" rule.

Edit:
As an addendum to the above:

The most common first posts that I see are either a request for recommendation or a request for when the next season of a specific anime will be broadcast. Both are against stated rules. Apparently the rules are not adequately visible, lack clarity or, which is most likely, we are up against human nature. People simply don’t read them. At that point what usually happens is that they attract back seat moderating. This is followed by an admonishment by a moderator and locking of the thread. Most of the time nothing is said about the back seat moderating.

In most cases I think the poster probably takes this as a public shaming even though that is not the intent. Regardless, many, if not most, of these people are never heard from again. Either they abandon the ANN forums or they re-register under a new name to come back. Neither is a good result. Since these are the most common offenses and happen frequently, I can understand the moderators frustration at having to deal with this repeatedly. However, in most cases this is the posters first offense (and first post) and frequently last.

Teh rules direct that we be gentle with new members. In the above circumstances this has been perhaps a bit less gentle than could be wished. When Tony K. was the only active moderator this was understandable. He didn’t have a lot of time to waste with fools. However we now seem to have an adequate supply of moderators. I would suggest that the moderators come up with some stock language that could be used to welcome them to the forum, gently explain the error of their ways and point them in the right direction. I would also suggest that since the back seat moderating was done in public that it be admonished in public.

This would not apply to people who have been on the forums for any length of time, they should know better.
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Crisha
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Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 4290
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:30 pm Reply with quote
Do you recommend we leave out 9b? It could technically be covered under 9a. We could state to the people asking about new seasons that no new information has been released as of yet and that they should search the news website in the future for information.
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TsunaReborn!



Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 4713
Location: Cheltenham UK
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:36 pm Reply with quote
Let me know if I'm speaking out of term as a non mod in this thread but 9.b could be shortened to or added to 9.a stating something like:

"Do not make threads or posts that require speculation."
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Alan45
Village Elder



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:37 pm Reply with quote
@willag
I hadn't given much thought to 9b as I was primarily concerned that we be less abrupt with first time posters. My response to TsunaReborn! was that no one would think that applied to their question.

On further thought, his suggestion with some tweaking might work. Rule 9b is entirely clear. Obviously that isn't helping as new posters violate it at least weekly. They just are not reading the rules before they post.

Since Tempest wants to keep the rules short, all we need is enough to show to someone who wants to argue. Tsuna's suggestion added to 9a as an additional sentence with the existing link should suffice. That is a statement that we don't allow speculation along with a linked explanation as to why and what. It is not like the existing extra information is stopping anything.

Tempest is right, the rules need to be as clear and as short as possible. If someone says "show me where it says I can't do that (or must do that)". Link him to the rule. If he says "Why can't I do that (or must do that)" link him to the linked explanation.

It is not as though people will read the rules anyway. They are mostly a place to show people that there are rules, usually after the fact. I suspect many long time posters learned the rules by seeing others being reminded of them. Confused

And another thing.

In the forum "Announcements and Teh rules", Teh rules should be listed first and the thread stickied. Also about half the announcements are no longer current, some desperately so, and should be archived to reduce clutter. Do we really need to continue telling people that a server went down years ago?
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TsunaReborn!



Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 4713
Location: Cheltenham UK
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:29 pm Reply with quote
Yes, sorry, I should have stated that the link should be included in my suggestion. This is why I thought it acceptable to reduce that section to one line.

Alan, I ageee that a warm welcome and a link to the rules for new users causing an infringement would be good; Nobnahn does this well.

I think I've brought this up before but is it possible for an auto email to be sent to new members welcoming them to the site with a link to Teh Rules included? I know that many would still dive straight into the site without following the link but its one way to try and direct traffic to a very useful area of the forum to start in.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:48 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:


I'm not sure I really understand why recommendation threads are so anathema. I gather that in their frequency they can be a bit annoying but it seems a minor problem in the long run. In addition, the rule doesn't seem to have actually prevented such requests. Several get locked each week, usually on the posters first post.

The thing is we have a host of official recommendation threads based on genres. We created them several years ago to help give users a place to ask for recommendations. There used to be no real place for it but we got the ok to make those genre based official ones. I personally feel those are all the ones we need. It might sound a bit cold but I for one expect users to put in SOME effort into finding what they are looking for. Not just come in and sit down and ask for people to spell hings out for them.

Now that being said I have seen other mods in the past, and I try to do this myself in similar situations, responding to a recommendation thread (non-official) or a question thread an provide a link to a better suited thread. I personally eel that is a fair and even compromise. We have plenty of viable threads users can find and use. If they are new I don't min personally giving them a helping hand so to speak but I do feel that it keeps things tidy not allowing the unofficial threads. Just my 2 cents.
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