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INTEREST: Animation Veteran Claims That Industry Newcomers Only Make 120 Yen An Hour


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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:55 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
It's not in the animation business (or maybe sometimes they are, but I don't know), but sweatshops in some locations do not pay in money at all. Indeed, some DO pay with food, as is with gold farmers in China (though it's most commonly three meals per day). Where they are paid in food, the company, for the most part, will also provide them sleeping quarters for the workers, and if they have family, the company will also directly give their families food and quarters. It's like a twisted, disturbing counterpart to the 50's Americana idea of the man of the house providing for his family.

Needless to say, the only countries where this sort of situation can happen are countries that lack labor laws that would ban it or have enforcement corrupt enough that they can get away with it (usually by bribing inspectors and police).
Not really and truly necessarily. The US is a bit wriggly in this matter, but you can get away with payment in kind if you wanted to:
Title 29, Subtitle B, Chapter V, Subchapter A, Part 531, Subpart C, §531.36 (Electronic Code of Federal Regulations) wrote:
Deductions for board, lodging, or other facilities may be made in nonovertime workweeks even if they reduce the cash wage below the minimum wage, provided the prices charged do not exceed the “reasonable cost” of such facilities. When such items are furnished the employee at a profit, the deductions from wages in weeks in which no overtime is worked are considered to be illegal only to the extent that the profit reduces the wage (which includes the “reasonable cost” of the facilities) below the required minimum wage. Facilities must be measured by the requirements of section 3(m) and this part to determine if the employee has received the applicable minimum wage in cash or in facilities which may be legitimately included in “wages” payable under the Act.
There was one case not too long ago of a motel getting it in the neck over doing this, but they also wanted her on call 24/7, among over brazen abuses.
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Shadowrun20XX



Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 1935
Location: Vegas
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:30 am Reply with quote
I would hope this isn't new info for you self proclaimed OTAKU's out there. The reality of the animation world is brutal.
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reanimator





PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:33 am Reply with quote
Cutiebunny wrote:
reanimator wrote:
If animators can get back their drawings, that is. Once their drawings go to different department, I doubt that they will get them back as production coordinators are too busy. At least best ones go to storage.


Even if the studio collected all the artwork and agreed to share the earnings, equally, with its animation staff, that would be a lot better than the current set up of destroying it.


I know that you're saying that as hardcore collector, but once drawings are collected then how are they going to sell all of them in time? Popularity life span of most anime are short and a lot of them aren't even hits. Legally speaking, production company can get into trouble for making tons of money selling original animation artworks without consent of rights owner as breach of contract.

Even If drawings are permitted to sold at dirt cheap price, there is no way they can sell them all as fans are picky about particular drawings. They'll go after closeup shots of main characters, not some mundane drawings of minor characters, distant shots, moving objects, and other unattractive shots. Background painting? Unless it's included with animation drawing in a cut envelope, that's hard to sell. I don't know what kind of collection you have, but do you have a lot of unattractive pictures?


Cutiebunny wrote:
Quote:
Studios are making quite bit of money through their own merchandise sales...


I am well aware of this. But how much of this money actually makes it to the animators themselves? I'm sure the producers and the investors are making a killing off merchandise from popular programs, including doujinshi artbooks, but what about your average inbetween frame animator?


Investors? Producers? What are you talking about? I'm talking about just regular production studios like Kyoto Animation, Production IG, PA Works, etc selling their own merchandise in limited quantity at dojinshi events. Being at dojinshi event, I think they're making moderate amount of money as supplemental income.

Your average inbetween animators can't claim credit on any animation drawings as his/her own as he/she only traces key animation of someone else's. Honestly I don't know if inbetween animators get a share from dojinshi merchandise sale. However, if supplemental income helps production studios to have perks like "free pizza night" or something, then it's better than nothing.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5294
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:20 am Reply with quote
The government should bring the living wage down, or if they are so interested in promoting Anime, give perks to people living in the industry, a reduced rent for anyone who works as an animator with wages below a certain level.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:27 am Reply with quote
@MarshalBanana, regarding your question about Korean animation, I did get confirmed news report that the Korean govt will be investing 380 billion Won into that industry. Again, I'm not sure of the condition of the animator wages but I hope the govt bolstering the industry can help them. I wish the Japanese govt would do something like this then this article here wouldn't be an issue.
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residentgrigo



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 2404
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:59 pm Reply with quote
This is not only a japanese problem btw. as this story made the comic board rounds http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/08/08/marvel-entertainment-sued-by-unpaid-intern
Or even better this one: http://deadline.com/2011/08/disney-fires-marvels-marketing-department-162086/
Mickey Maus basically fired half of the staff at big M when they bought them so interns can do the background work. Maybe such interns can also animate our favorite Japanimation of the future? The lack of professional animators is also why The Sky Crawlers was also in 3D. Well besides GitS 2 flopping big time. Sorry for being so cynical but but was born in the last days of the USSR and this is how the wold works and forever will as my gradfather worked till age 67 in a nightshift till he dropped dead. You don´t even want to know who build your I-products btw. So many dead chinese "slaves". So many. This 10/10 masterpiece is about North Korean animation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang:_A_Journey_in_North_Korea Learn a bit.


Last edited by residentgrigo on Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Madoka...AYUKAWA!



Joined: 14 Jan 2015
Posts: 158
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:01 pm Reply with quote
Sad to see those that supposedly believe keeping salaries down is the way to go, you have the same dirty mind and those damn CHUPACABRAS getting filthy rich with modern day slavery.

It all would be fine if the profits were divided more equally and with more morals, of course, it wont happen, what greedy high ranking execute or investor would accept to win still excellent money but a less to paid better the labor hand? None, what filthy rich investor would accept to make good profits but that which will prevent to buy a new 1 million sports car every year? None.

Modern day slavery at its finest, congratulations to those that think keeping salaries down its the way to compete with cheap hand labor overseas and all that sh*t! Congrats, you are well indoctrinated by the capitalist world. I hope you are also a modern day slave. that is what you deserve.
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:50 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
I don't know if I want to buy my anime in the future since my money is not paying off these hard working people that put a lot of time and effort into making the animation work and yet get paid so little.


How about some consistency? Are you also dropping your smartphone or computer whose components were in sweat shops in asia, the pretty cloths made with sweat and tears or are you refraining from buying your would be wife a blood soaked diamond ring? As bad as the situation is in japan, most still have plenty of (less exciting/appealing) options of how to make a living.

As far as I can see the only solution is to make anime production more profitable by making a push to sell overseas. The more money the production committee has, the more they would offer to secure quality craftsmanship.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:53 pm Reply with quote
mangamuscle wrote:
mdo7 wrote:
I don't know if I want to buy my anime in the future since my money is not paying off these hard working people that put a lot of time and effort into making the animation work and yet get paid so little.


How about some consistency? Are you also dropping your smartphone or computer whose components were in sweat shops in asia, the pretty cloths made with sweat and tears or are you refraining from buying your would be wife a blood soaked diamond ring? As bad as the situation is in japan, most still have plenty of (less exciting/appealing) options of how to make a living.


When it comes to smartphone or computer, I can't live without those. Yes I'm aware (and acknowledged) of possible sweatshop that these phones and computer may have went through. BTW, my smartphone was made (and assembled) in South Korea and not in China. My PC is made in USA. So I'm very careful of the product I choose. But when I do buy a "made in China", I've always wondered how many people in a Chinese factory had "slave" their way making those products.

Now regarding anime, that one I can live without it. But the problem is you're paying a lot of money for anime and those money you paid don't go to those poor newcomer animators who put a lot of hard work and effort into making the animation. That's why I question if it's worth it for me to buy anime on DVDs/blu-rays.

mangamuscle, you also wrote:

As far as I can see the only solution is to make anime production more profitable by making a push to sell overseas. The more money the production committee has, the more they would offer to secure quality craftsmanship.


I would like to see that, but I'm not sure if that's possible.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4410
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:27 pm Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:

Now regarding anime, that one I can live without it. But the problem is you're paying a lot of money for anime and those money you paid don't go to those poor newcomer animators who put a lot of hard work and effort into making the animation. That's why I question if it's worth it for me to buy anime on DVDs/blu-rays.

.



I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate here, but one problem would be that companies might tighten their belts further by either outsourcing the work to other countries or reduce production, resulting in lots of animators being out of work entirely.

Though I suppose it might end up forcing them to find other work that at least paid minimum wage.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:35 pm Reply with quote
Greed1914 wrote:

I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate here, but one problem would be that companies might tighten their belts further by either outsourcing the work to other countries or reduce production, resulting in lots of animators being out of work entirely.

Though I suppose it might end up forcing them to find other work that at least paid minimum wage.


Part of me wants to help the anime industry. But at the same time, the other part of me don't want to support a industry that pay "slave wages" to animators that put a lot of hard work and effort into making these wonderful animation. So this is a big moral dilemma and as mangamuscle said if anime industry take the overseas market seriously then this wouldn't be an issue. But anime industry in Japan never take the overseas market seriously.
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CoreSignal



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Location: California, USA
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:17 pm Reply with quote
Cutiebunny wrote:


Quote:
Studios are making quite bit of money through their own merchandise sales...


I am well aware of this. But how much of this money actually makes it to the animators themselves? I'm sure the producers and the investors are making a killing off merchandise from popular programs, including doujinshi artbooks, but what about your average inbetween frame animator?


I'm curious about this as well. A publisher like Aniplex can charge hefty prices, yet they still turn a pretty good profit, so does Aniplex just pocket all the money while the shows' staff still receive the same base pay? Same for the merchanisers who sell figures, artbooks, wallscrolls, etc. If I were an animator or artist I would hate to see somebody make a profit from my work and not receive any of it.
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Madoka...AYUKAWA!



Joined: 14 Jan 2015
Posts: 158
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:57 pm Reply with quote
mangamuscle wrote:


As far as I can see the only solution is to make anime production more profitable by making a push to sell overseas. The more money the production committee has, the more they would offer to secure quality craftsmanship.


jajaja, good laugh sir. I will say I hope your way of thinking is merely naive.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6248
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:43 pm Reply with quote
Madoka...AYUKAWA! wrote:
mangamuscle wrote:


As far as I can see the only solution is to make anime production more profitable by making a push to sell overseas. The more money the production committee has, the more they would offer to secure quality craftsmanship.


jajaja, good laugh sir. I will say I hope your way of thinking is merely naive.


Well overseas profit could help a lot. I mean Japan just got out of recession (thanks to a slight rise in export).
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar


Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:03 pm Reply with quote
Ushio wrote:


If paying low wages is how we get anime made without lots of studio closures when one title bombs then that's what it takes.

I would urge you to work for a similar salary with a similar cost of living rate and then try to say that again.
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