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The Mike Toole Show - Unicorn Power


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oansun



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:17 am Reply with quote
Thanks Mike. Great article, and interesting to see how the producers approached it. By todays standards the release pattern is a bit antiquated for physical purchase, and renting it all (Unicorn) was a tough pill to swallow (but getting a 30% off PSN points card alleviated that). But it ultimately felt worth it, and kind of fun in a sense. I'll be watching Origin this week. I've put it off since the day it was released (for what reason I don't know).
G-Rec these aren't.
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jroa



Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 349
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:33 am Reply with quote
The Guntanks in The Origin are a retcon indeed. An interesting one, but still a change.

Deikun as a mad prophet is a little weird, since they could have made more of an effort to flesh out the character and fit his portrayal here with his reputation before killing him off so quickly. It comes across as too hurried, as if the creator did not want to spend too much time on the subject even in the manga. Char as a child ace is rather hilarious when you think about it too. Other than that, I am happy with this OAV.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 862
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:26 pm Reply with quote
A prestige release my ass. The proof is in the pudding as they say.
While it's true that the Japanese release of Gundam Unicorn had the English dub, people forget (easily since many don't speak Italian) that Gundam Unicorn was dubbed in Italian for the Italian release (and had the Japanese dub also). In fact the Italians got not only the dvd release but also the blu-ray release of Gundam Unicorn. And the special edition which had the Japanese booklets in each box translated (containing a lot of info about the ova + interviews to cast/producers etc...) plus a postcard. All for less that 40$ per released episode. And the quality is 100% equal to the Japanese release.
And the same thing is going to happen with the Origin release.

So it's fair to say the Americans got Aniplexed in full. And they got less than the Italians since I doubt the Japanese blu-ray release of Gundam Unicorn had the booklet translated into English for our American mecha fans.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14022
Location: Currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:55 pm Reply with quote
Episode four of Gundam Unicorn was where it all fell apart, never to recover. I was actually really angry - genuinely livid - after watching it, although not as much as I was when the seventh episode came around. Unicorn may have sold like hotcakes but it is one of the worst Gundam titles out there, which is saying something given how awful most of the franchise actually is. Apart from the animation, music and character designs, there isn't a single good thing about it. Plot was terrible and ridiculous, pacing was too hurried, characters didn't make sense, and Full Frontal was a copout and turned into a one-dimensional villain after promising so much. Once again we got a story which waxed lyrically against war in the same hypocritical breath that it glorified battle and offered all sorts of cool and intricately-designed mecha to turn into model kits. Even the battles were lacklustre compared to those in older, less-well-animated but better-choreographed titles.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 1726
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 pm Reply with quote
Huh, I thought Banagher was actually a mixture of all the worse element of previous terrible main character of UC gundam. His only motivation was to sleep with Audrey, he was brash and more than a little bit stupid, constantly rushing into conflict with little to no preparation and it would only end well cause he had an OP mobile suit to pull him trough cause there's nothing indicating that he's a good pilot. He seriously suffered from the "the robot pilot itself and the pilot is just a key" element that so many other mech show have, except in this one unicorn even got angry with him so it would physically restrict him to make sure he wouldn't touch the control, kinda like saying "don't touch anything, I don't want to die here".

The character, and most of the plot "Are you Char? -Maybe I'm Char.-Your not Char. No I'm not. But yes I am." was pretty disappointing, but the side character and the mech design pushed it trough most of the way. The mech were just awesome, even the regular unit looked cool, I actually think the unicorn was the plainest one, but Frontal suit and the green one Marida piloted (BTW best character in the show, but ruined by her interaction with Banagher) were just mech porn.
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DmonHiro



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 3050
Location: Romania, Bucharest
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:34 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Even the battles were lackluster compared to those in older, less-well-animated but better-choreographed titles.

Now THAT'S some grade-A bullshit right there. You can rage on the plot, you can rage on the characters, I can respect that. But the battles? Now you're nostalgia filters are showing.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14022
Location: Currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:45 pm Reply with quote
^
When the battles weren't boringly one-sided they consisted of the participants flying aimlessly around using Talk-no-Jutsu on one another. The climatic battle at the end of episode four was particularly bad featuring both of these; Banagher spouting off stupidly idealistic BS whilst random mooks no-one cared about were slaughtered in their scores in the background. And then there were the super saiyan sparkly transformations with all the magical newtype BS that the franchise needed to leave buried in the 80s.

Frankly, Unicorn's battles were Gundam SEED Destiny and Gundam 00 all over again in terms of tension and excitement. As in, there was none.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:25 pm Reply with quote
Gundam Unicorn was great if you understood 2 things :

- it was supposed to offer a closure to the Zabi drama started 20 years before with the 1 year war. And give an alternative closure to the UC era (which for all intents and purposes coincides with the Zabi drama). So Gundam Victory, F91 in this particular timeline will never exist (or will they ? It depends on how people take Princess Mineva's final broadcast speech).

- you understood from the get go that the Laplace box was to be a political statement about the UC. Any other thing wouldn't have made sense. Even I that didn't read the novels was right on the mark after the first 10 minutes of the first episode.


Now, that is not to say Gundam Unicorn doesn't have flaws. It does, and most notably the "time travel" in the last episode. And of course your standard UC ghosts. But yeah new type ghosts appeared in 0079 and have been with us ever since. So you can't complain on this issue. As for the time travel, yeah that was cheesy and could have been done better.

Animation was top notch as were the battles. To compain about this is stupid beyond comprehension.
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amagee



Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 332
Location: Orlando, FL
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:38 pm Reply with quote
Quote:

Like, we all know that Project V was where the Federation's mobile suits came from, right? So what's with all the Guntanks, several years too early? Is this a retcon, or have I missed something about Gundam's apocrypha that explains it?


The early type guntanks and other mobile suits seen in Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin are not retcons. Mobile Suit Gundam: The Origin is technically its own timeline; it has many similarities to the original series but Sunrise has said that it's an alternate version of the story.

For example, some later plot of the original U.C. Gundam universe such as the Delaz conflict may not technically happen in the timeline of Origin.

Cptn_Taylor wrote:
Gundam Unicorn was great if you understood 2 things :

- it was supposed to offer a closure to the Zabi drama started 20 years before with the 1 year war. And give an alternative closure to the UC era (which for all intents and purposes coincides with the Zabi drama). So Gundam Victory, F91 in this particular timeline will never exist (or will they ? It depends on how people take Princess Mineva's final broadcast speech).


Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn fits into the U.C. story line and does not nullify the events of Mobile Suit Gundam Victory or F91. The effect of Mineva's speech is supposed to have something to do with the rapid stagnation of the Earth Federal Forces into the second century of the U.C. universe.
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kgw



Joined: 22 Jul 2004
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Location: Spain, EU
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:10 pm Reply with quote
About The Origin's retcon or not, original author Yoshikazu Yasuhiko was asked in the Spanish Bacerlona's Salon del Manga about his changes in the "original story". He replied he was given "green light" to make the story as he liked. So, yeah, this might be the Gundam UC "The Origin" universe/timeline.

Which probably means nothing to Sunrise.
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Zetabag



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:16 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
His only motivation was to sleep with Audrey

Audrey was definitely his primary motivation in the beginning (though I'd argue wasn't simply "to sleep with her"), however by episode 4 he finds his own convictions.
meiam wrote:
he was brash and more than a little bit stupid, constantly rushing into conflict with little to no preparation

Eh the only time he really goes out half cocked was episode 2 and 4 and even then, given the circumstances, there really weren't any alternatives. In episode 2 Full Frontal was kicking the Nahel Argama's ass and would have ended Riddhe if Banagher hadn't launched when he did. In episode 4 there was a Mobile Armor running rampant in the city and the Feds were getting their asses kicked. I don't think sitting around and doing nothing would have been better.
meiam wrote:
except in this one unicorn even got angry with him so it would physically restrict him to make sure he wouldn't touch the control, kinda like saying "don't touch anything, I don't want to die here".

Umm...that's not how it works.
meiam wrote:
I actually think the unicorn was the plainest one, but Frontal suit and the green one Marida piloted (BTW best character in the show, but ruined by her interaction with Banagher) were just mech porn.

I disagree I though her conversations with Banagher were some of the better character interactions in the series.
DmonHiro wrote:
dtm42 wrote:
Even the battles were lackluster compared to those in older, less-well-animated but better-choreographed titles.

Now THAT'S some grade-A bullshit right there. You can rage on the plot, you can rage on the characters, I can respect that. But the battles? Now you're nostalgia filters are showing.

I like Unicorn's battles but 0083 for me is still the undisputed king of mecha combat in the Gundam franchise and that series is more than 20 years old.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 1689
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:23 pm Reply with quote
amagee wrote:
Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn fits into the U.C. story line and does not nullify the events of Mobile Suit Gundam Victory or F91. The effect of Mineva's speech is supposed to have something to do with the rapid stagnation of the Earth Federal Forces into the second century of the U.C. universe.


Yeah, Unicorn clearly fits in the UC time line and is not some alternate universe spin off. The ending clearly spells out that is the point where the federation started to collapse which fits in with later events.

Cptn_Taylor wrote:
Gundam Unicorn was great if you understood 2 things


Neither of those address my main issue with Unicorn: Full Frontal. I was fine with the box since as you said, it pretty much had to be something like that. I also liked Mineva's story as a finale for the Zabi's. But FF also gets a lot of attention throughout Unicorn and that pretty much just falls flat on its face in the last episode.

Maybe I'm in the minority, and maybe it is because I know that Banagher and Mineva's plan ultimately fails, but when FF was explaining his plan to everyone, I was definitely in agreement with his argument. He was the only one that really had an actual plan from the start. Then we get the final episode with his conclusion, and that was such a horrible let down (and I don't mean because he lost as obviously that was a given from the start).

Cptn_Taylor wrote:
So it's fair to say the Americans got Aniplexed in full. And they got less than the Italians since I doubt the Japanese blu-ray release of Gundam Unicorn had the booklet translated into English for our American mecha fans.


Europe isn't the same bluray region as Japan, and the US is. So yeah maybe we got screwed compared to Italy. That was never an option though. There was no chance in hell they would do a simultaneous release here with a lower price point that allowed Japanese to import the US version. I'd rather pay more than either way a year+ or have some stupid restrictions on our version like dub only.


Last edited by SilverTalon01 on Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ambimunch



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 1958
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:24 pm Reply with quote
As big fan of Unicorn (own all 7 blu rays), I did not like The Origin as much after watching the first episode. I am not sure how I feel about the future of Gundam with these 1h long OVA episodes every 6 months. I think a proper 50 episode show will do the franchise more justice.

Also, please make all dubbed Gundam series like SEED HD and G available in NA. In terms of Turn A, the rightstuf listing only shows Japanese dub with English subtitles audio -- I don't think we're getting a dub this summer Confused
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 1689
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:31 pm Reply with quote
Ambimunch wrote:
Also, please make all dubbed Gundam series like SEED HD and G available in NA. In terms of Turn A, the rightstuf listing only shows Japanese dub with English subtitles audio -- I don't think we're getting a dub this summer Confused


Turn-A was never dubbed though was it? The other older gundams they're doing were so I'd expect them to have dual audio. I can't blame them for not wanting to dub an older, niche, and rather long series (compared to your standard anime, average for gundam).
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Zetabag



Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:45 pm Reply with quote
Ambimunch wrote:
As big fan of Unicorn (own all 7 blu rays), I did not like The Origin as much after watching the first episode. I am not sure how I feel about the future of Gundam with these 1h long OVA episodes every 6 months. I think a proper 50 episode show will do the franchise more justice.

Also, please make all dubbed Gundam series like SEED HD and G available in NA. In terms of Turn A, the rightstuf listing only shows Japanese dub with English subtitles audio -- I don't think we're getting a dub this summer Confused


Nope no dub. Considering that Turn A Gundam is a niche even within the Gundam fanbase its no surprise that there will be no dub. Hell Sunrise and Right Stuff are taking a bit of a risk with Turn A Gundam considering it did relatively poor during its initial run.
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