Forum - View topicNEWS: Toei Europe: 2nd Sailor Moon Crystal Series Coming This Summer
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Madoka...AYUKAWA!
 Posts: 158 |
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[quote="ellephedre"]
Its continuing because its sucess is several fronts most likely. I dont understand why the fandom sometimes dont understand this. The sucess flags is not the same for all anime, some anime is there to primarily (but not limited to) sell merchandise, to promote novels, manga , get ratings, etc. So a continuity mean the sum of all those or excelling in one or another front guarantees its continuity. That the reason generic moe an fanservice anime keeps popping up like cockroaches. And those are a sucess hardly because they are the epitome of *quality" (* a really good well written, interesting story/ + top class animation etc).And this is also the reason why real good quality anime but with 0 pandering for the modern otaku more often than not never see the light ever again, thou those kind of anime are rare to come by nowadays. Still Sailor Moon Crystal is better than all those combined with all its flaws you can cite. Me, I, dont care about strange frames here and there, that is the standard in anime, its still enjoyable regardless even with those flaws that people are quick to point out with crystal. You can discuss the actual quialty (whatever that means for you) but evidently this new anime has proven a sucess for toei which is no longer up to debate. And honestly the surprising thing here would have been not to continue it considering the immense popularity that still has THE SAILOR MOON. I mean we are talking about SAILOR MOON, this is not your niche late night anime series. In fact I did find it strange to only announce 26 eps at the beginning, thou a similar thing happened with Saint Seiya Omega. |
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PurpleWarrior13
 Posts: 2025 |
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Surprise, surprise. I knew when they moved onto the Black Moon saga, they were probably planning on doing an adaptation of the entire manga, especially after it got picked up for TV.
Good news either way though. Now we'll have two complete adaptations of the manga. Hopefully they'll find a way to finally animate Sailor V. 
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H. Guderian
Posts: 1255 |
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Tell them they can have their sequel if they go back and do the first season properly. maybe they're just going for a trainwreck record.
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MysticMew
 Posts: 91 Location: Bremen, Germany |
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While I said I won't get into this again. One point I'd like to bring up:
I agree that Sailor Moon Crystal is not 'bad'. Bad would be more used to describe a lot of things last season... That aside... I still give most episode somewhere between 3-4/5 in my reviews. But the thing is, after the initial nostalgia run its course, I've never went above that. In fact, looking back I think I can only name one episode that showed me something impressive enough to have a top rating (and even then there were other flaws in it). So Sailor Moon Crystal is 'decent'. Now the question is do you truly think 'THE SAILOR MOON' deserves DECENT? Doesn't it at least deserve 'good'? Maybe even "very good'? If it all boils down to something THAT is my major gripe by now. In fact that is probably one of the reasons while I am still watching, that it's at least 'decent'. For something with this name and this many high expectations prior to release, 'decent' unfortunately is rather similar to calling your average new anime without any background 'bad' (at least). Unfortunately the name itself is pulling enough. Merch is getting selled, money is being made... and therefore nothing will change. Sailor Moon Crystal will continue to wallow in it's own medicore standard and never rise above it... If it does I might really win the lottery... |
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ellephedre
Posts: 36 |
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You have not understood and are comparing different things. I wouldn't be denying in any way - with me liking the anime or not - that Crystal is a success if it was able, like a normal successful anime, to keep a stable fanbase for itself. Those 'moe and fanservice anime'... Companies keep producing shiny new and expensive merchandising for it, right? Where is Crystal's? I'm also sure their ratings don't decline constantly with every new episode and that by episode 19 they haven't lost 80% of the fans along the way. Here is the data. http://ellephedre.tumblr.com/post/107146770770/crystals-ratings-on-niconico-japan I was able to gather data only for Japan and Italy, where I come from. Here is the italian data: http://ellephedre.tumblr.com/post/107152219670/crystals-ratings-for-niconico-italy Two very different countries, similar decline. In Italy Crystal airs at a decent hour (11/12 am) on a Saturday (not on a business or school day) so people are not asleep when it's first available online. One can argue that in Italy illegal streaming and downloading is a very used method to see animes, but from the little I know of Japan, the laws are more strict there. Also, the new episodes are available in illegal streaming later than in the official channel. If an anime has managed to capture your interest of avid fan, you want to see the new episode asap, without waiting. Not all fans are that way, but some are, and every successful anime has a bunch of hardcore fans who are there to see the episode the minute it is out. Those ratings I've posted show at least that the number of these people went downhill since the beginning of Crystal. You lose the hardcore fans, you lose the people that tweet, rebblog or just ramble online about a new episode as soon as it airs. Like I said, the 'ratings' number just reflect a situation that is easy to notice on the Sailor Moon Crystal fandom. They are not as active or as numerous as before. Moreover, the curious thing about Crystal - unless the japanese tv airing manage to attract new fans - is that by episode 30 or 40 the number of people watching it in Japan on its official channel could be so negligible that even its utility as a marketing tool should be in question. That's what I don't understand fully: if just a little bunch of people watch your marketing campaign (Crystal) why keep producing it? From a business point of view, I suppose that the licensing agreements (for the figures, the accessories, etc.) are hard to keep in place if you as a company don't show your interest in promoting the franchise. And yet, with the numbers I've shown, I thought that Crystal has expired its utility as a marketing campaign, having shown that the old products from the previous incarnation will sell no matter the fact that Sailor Moon fans in the majority are not loving Crystal. Still, it makes sense: no Crystal, no new licenses. Not because Crystal is gaining new fans (which is not) or keeping old fans (which is not), but simply because by existing it proves that Toei is promoting Sailor Moon. And that's what is needed to keep producing merchandising. Also, Toei could be thinking that the people still watching Crystal are also the fans buying the merchandise from the old incarnations (so, that they are hardcore Sailor Moon fans in general, whose interest should be kept alive) but while it's true that some Crystal fans love the '90's anime as well, a number of them cannot stand the previous adaptation and would probably only buy Crystal merchandise, if only it was available to them in the numbers produced for the old anime. Which is not. So, again, Crystal is not a successful anime. Numbers and facts prove it. The day those ratings will go up or we are flooded by new Crystal merchandise, I will be happy to say that Crystal is a success. As a Sailor Moon fan, I truly wanted it to be. I wanted it to be something that Toei strongly believed in and invested money in, with the purpose of attracting new fans and not just something they put the least possible effort in, with the mere purpose of just milking the nostalgia money of us old fans. Absurdly, I would have given it to them all the same. I have been waiting for merchandise of the old Sailor Moon for twenty years (others have voiced out a similar opinion just on this forum, which is telling). They just had to produce it for me to buy it. But alas, marketing has its rules. To conclude:
I agree wholeheartedly. Yet Toei transformed it into a web-series instead of a late night anime (which at least have more budget) AND Crystal managed to lose the interest of a big number of Sailor Moon fans, all people that would have kept watching it with enthusiasm if only it had lived up to a minimum part of their expectations. Because, like you said, it's Sailor Moon. Keeping fans shouldn't have been that hard. |
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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Sailor Moon is a success. Tv audience numbers/streaming only tell a part of the story. And if TOEI continues to produce more episodes then it means that for all pratical purposes that they are not losing money. IE the show is a success. As for the quality of the animation of the new series, good God go back and watch some of the classic Sailor Moon episodes. Just to have a reality check. Sailor Moon Crystal is not an OVA like Gundam Unicorn. It is tv material, low quality tv material that makes money.
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ellephedre
Posts: 36 |
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Sigh. Compare Crystal with other modern anime and their animation 'errors' (but most of all, quality). They too are not OAV material. That is a fair comparison, not with a 20-year-old product. Apart from this, I admit it's impossible to explain a sound argument if people want to believe that 4 can be just the result of 2+2 instead of (2-1)^2+3*1. This is my reality check: understanding that the reality of the anime industry is complex. At this point, I'm under the impression that I could have made a list of all the new Sailor Moon merchandising out in the last six months to show exactly how much has been produced of Crystal in comparison to the previous incarnation, as well as in general in comparison to other animes surviving on merchandising, and I could have also gathered extensive and precise data on the declining numbers of internet activity related to Crystal, but everyone who wants to believe it would still be saying that Crystal is a success just because it's getting a sequel. Okay. |
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GalicianNightmare
Posts: 124 |
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@Madoka and Stuart
Popularity=/=good. Gross=/=good. Opinions do matter, regardless of success. Your excuse with SMC is comparable to those who defend George Lucas. Star Wars is a multi-billion dollar franchise! It's sold millions(billions) of toys, books and tickets! Lucas is a billionaire and all that other garbage. Who cares if something is popular? As of 2015, the three Fifty Shades of Grey books have sold more than 35 million copies in the USA alone. At her peak, she was earning more than £1 million(about $1.5 million) a week. That's more than talented soccer players like Ronaldo and Messi. Still not good books. Success is no measure of quality. If it was, then the latter two SHOULD be earning more than talentless hack James. |
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2245 |
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Eh, I'd say the show is profitable for TOEI, though not necessarily a success. Crystal's existence allows TOEI to sell all the merch they've created in anticipation of this being a smash hit (which it clearly isn't based off the numbers), but it's the merchandise holding up the show, not the other way around. And I wouldn't be surprised if that Answerman column (animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2015-01-30/.83808) was right, and the merch sellers are just trying to get rid of as much as they can before this ship sinks completely.
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SailorTralfamadore
 Posts: 499 Location: Keep Austin Weeb |
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Yeah, what whiskeyii is essentially what I thought, and put in better words than I did earlier in the thread. (I forgot about that Answerman column--or, rather, I forgot that I got that impression from there.) The merchandise is doing well, because there are plenty of existing Sailor Moon fans willing to snap it up even if they don't like the new show. But Crystal itself has been a flop. A flop in the sense of "people aren't watching/buying it." Fans can extrapolate all they want about well I like it! but the numbers there don't lie.
So I still think it's surprising that they're bringing out another series. You'd think they'd just want to make the most out of all the extra merch they already have. |
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Moroboshi-san
 Posts: 174 |
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Well, when the companies involved (Kodansa and Toei) got into this project they set up some targets what they expected to see in their bank accounts right about now. Clearly they liked what they saw, as otherwise throwing more money on 2nd season (or spring TV broadcast) would make no sense. In my vocabulary that counts as success. One thing you need to remember: the show is targeted to Japanese women in their 30s. They have never visited anime review site in internet, nor they ever will, so whatever comments there are mean nothing to them. |
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SailorTralfamadore
Posts: 499 Location: Keep Austin Weeb |
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First of all, that's a really sweeping assumption to make. Especially when you consider that most of these older women Sailor Moon fans watched/read the series as teens, so they were likely fans of other anime, too. Secondly, regardless of reviews, the viewership numbers are just not that high. And they've been sinking further and further as the show goes on. |
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ellephedre
Posts: 36 |
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In anyone's vocabulary too, if we were talking about a regular anime, whose merchandising plan (from where money comes from) didn't heavily involve products from another anime. That's the anomaly. |
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Moroboshi-san
Posts: 174 |
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Clearly they have been high enough for the merch sales they have been expecting. Viewer number go always down over time, that is to be expected, no show stays in air forever. Except Sazae-san. |
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ellephedre
Posts: 36 |
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But the merch sales are principally of products that are not Crystal's. I don't have the figures of course, but if it were so, we would have more products of Crystal than of the old anime. Companies produce what sells more, so if Crystal's products were a success, we would be seeing more of them. Instead there was more Crystal merchandising at the beginning than there is now. |
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