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Answerman - Funny Story About That Simulcast...


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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 3679
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:38 am Reply with quote
Zorro is the Spanish name of the male Vulpes vulpes (Red Fox), Zorra for the vixen. Unless Disney can trademark a Spanish word used to describe a species, I don't think that there's a copyright issue based on the name.
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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:50 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Not even if Disney got on their butts regarding the name being too close to "Zorro," which was 4Kids' reason?


Funimation currently uses Zoro in the dub, so it can't be an ongoing legal problem. There are reasons why they could have stuck with the name for the first few volumes, when the 4Kids version was active, but by now there is just no excuse for them not to change it, not even consistency with previous versions. They made a mistake, they need to eat their crow on it and move on, not continue to double down on it.
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PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 2025
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:08 pm Reply with quote
GalicianNightmare wrote:
@configspace Do you have evidence for this? There isn't even a dub for QOS, Queen's Blade seems to have a few different dubs, in which VAs I recognize are credited using their real/stage names. Air Gear, Excel Saga, Witchblade, Vandread and many other ecchi shows shoot down your claim that Americans VAs use pseudonyms for ecchi. The only pseudonyms used are for non-union dubs.


Not every voice actor uses aliases for ecchi shows, just some. Just look at the names on this show: anime#11312

BTW, Marie LeBlanc = Emily Neves. She went by her real name for the sequel (Samurai Bride), and confirmed on her Facebook fan group that she voiced the character all along, but used an alias in the first season.

And Queens Blade has one dub, with at least a handful of it's voice actors credited under aliases, but not everyone: anime#10086

Dance in the Vampire Bund is another anime where lots of the VAs (but not all) are credited under other names: anime#10948


Last edited by PurpleWarrior13 on Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Alan45
Village Elder



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 9841
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:09 pm Reply with quote
Ohoni wrote:
Quote:
They made a mistake, they need to eat their crow on it and move on, not continue to double down on it.

I really doubt they see it that way. They probably don't think it is at all important and are simply being consistent.
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Mikeski



Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 608
Location: Minneapolis, MN
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:17 pm Reply with quote
Hameyadea wrote:
Zorro is the Spanish name of the male Vulpes vulpes (Red Fox), Zorra for the vixen. Unless Disney can trademark a Spanish word used to describe a species, I don't think that there's a copyright issue based on the name.

They can. Ford has a Registered trademark for Mustang, which is a horse.

And since both Zor[r]os are characters in stories, a trademark suit would probably hold up. (IANAL.) As opposed to, say, the Chevrolet Beretta... obviously named after the handgun, but perfectly legal since nobody would mistake a car for a pistol. Not sure how it would work out if Zorro was only copyrighted and not trademarked, but I, for one, would not get in a shouting match with Disney's lawyers if I didn't have to.
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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 3679
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:42 pm Reply with quote
Mikeski wrote:
And since both Zor[r]os are characters in stories, a trademark suit would probably hold up. (IANAL.) As opposed to, say, the Chevrolet Beretta... obviously named after the handgun, but perfectly legal since nobody would mistake a car for a pistol. Not sure how it would work out if Zorro was only copyrighted and not trademarked, but I, for one, would not get in a shouting match with Disney's lawyers if I didn't have to.


I highly doubt that Disney - or anyone else - can actually pursue legal actions over the name Zorro, for a number of reasons:
  • Disney is an entertainment production company, but that doesn't mean that they hold the rights. They could've produced the 1957 TV show but didn't had the rights themselves, only reached an agreement with the right holders;
  • Zorro has appeared for the first time in 1919, in the #102th issue of All-Story Weekly. It wasn't created by Disney (Zorro Production Inc. claims to have that honor);
  • The more well-known 1998 movie was produced by TriStar Pictures, a subsidiary of Sony Pictures Entertainment, itself part of the larger Sony company;
  • a 2001 court ruling has shown that not only taking legal actions for allegedly infringing the character Zorro led to a dismissal, but the notion that the character is trademarked was "specious".
  • The legal actions that were taken about the character were about the combined collection of: name (2 R's), dress & abilities (sword, whip, horse-riding), locale (namely a desert with a hideout cave). Not a single part from that list. One Piece's Zoro has a sash (but green, not red), name is written differently (a single R, not 2), apart of the sword abilities he doesn't have a talent for the whip or horse-riding (let alone a sense of direction), and appeared in 1997 (tankōbon was collected and released in 24 Dec. 1997), some 8 months before the 1998 movie's release.


All-in-all, it looks to me like FUNi are either lazy to change the name, or want to retain some semblance of continuity from the 4Kids' dubs (why would they want to do that? Why would anyone want to do that?).


Last edited by Hameyadea on Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:29 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Via_01



Joined: 24 Aug 2014
Posts: 551
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:24 pm Reply with quote
Mikeski wrote:
Hameyadea wrote:
Zorro is the Spanish name of the male Vulpes vulpes (Red Fox), Zorra for the vixen. Unless Disney can trademark a Spanish word used to describe a species, I don't think that there's a copyright issue based on the name.

They can. Ford has a Registered trademark for Mustang, which is a horse.

And since both Zor[r]os are characters in stories, a trademark suit would probably hold up. (IANAL.) As opposed to, say, the Chevrolet Beretta... obviously named after the handgun, but perfectly legal since nobody would mistake a car for a pistol. Not sure how it would work out if Zorro was only copyrighted and not trademarked, but I, for one, would not get in a shouting match with Disney's lawyers if I didn't have to.


One thing is having a registered trademark for a type of horse... but I think that's pretty different from doing the same to an animal in specific. Because "zorro" is not only used for red foxes, but for all foxes as well.

The world must be going into a pretty weird direction if suddenly a company can buy the rights for the word "fox". Oh wait...
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5920
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:11 pm Reply with quote
Wow people are upset over Zoro's name being changed to Zolo in One Piece did I step back into 2004?

Cause so I don't know whether to be happy or horrified.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:40 pm Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Wow people are upset over Zoro's name being changed to Zolo in One Piece did I step back into 2004?

I am curious about why this is an issue for some people.
I thought that "Zolo" and "Zoro" were just two different ways to romanize the name, like "Kururu" or "Kululu" for a character in Sgt. Frog (Tokyopop used both and sometimes made a gag of it).

Is there something in the original manga that makes "Zoro" right and "Zolo" wrong?
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Hameyadea



Joined: 23 Jun 2014
Posts: 3679
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:05 pm Reply with quote
Touma wrote:
I am curious about why this is an issue for some people.
I thought that "Zolo" and "Zoro" were just two different ways to romanize the name, like "Kururu" or "Kululu" for a character in Sgt. Frog (Tokyopop used both and sometimes made a gag of it).

Is there something in the original manga that makes "Zoro" right and "Zolo" wrong?


From the manga


From the anime's OP


From the anime itself (notice the spelling of Luffy's name; the staff knows the difference between L and R)
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:27 pm Reply with quote
@Hameyadea
I do not see anything for your third image, but the first two are conclusive.
I do believe that the original creator intended for "Zoro" to be used.

As you may have guessed, since I had to ask, I am not a One Piece fan, so thank you for the information.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:21 pm Reply with quote
I am a One Piece fan, I do know the intended spelling is "Zoro," and I honestly don't care.
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Maokun



Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:40 pm Reply with quote
I sure hope that these emerging manga-reading apps gain strength and eventually can negotiate rights to publish in the west more commercially mainstream titles. That or that some Japanese company with that kind of contacts starts its own app.

Right now the only option I know is Crunchyroll and the manga side of their site is woefully inadequate. No way to mark to progress, no RSS feed to inform you of new releases of the manga you are following, no way to favourite or search by category... and a long list of etcs. It is hard to believe that unofficial manga reading sites have been around for so long, doing things right and constantly improving and yet, the most similar official site didn't learn anything from them and is so depressingly barebones.

On a brighter note, I wholeheartedly support the asker's recommendation of Tower of God. Anyone who loved Naruto and is bummed that there's really not a worthy successor around after it ended (not counting, obviously, the universal constant of One Piece) should find that ToG is that and much more.

Speaking of ToG and those sites, it is interesting how their existence is affecting the development of the visual language of comic narrative: these sites, which embrace digitally made manga, work on a vertical scroll mode (the famous "infinite canvas") schewing the book-mirroring conceit of pagination or horizontal scroll. The main advantage of it is that the comic page may take as much as it wants from the horizontal dimension of the page without having to worry about "fitting" the whole content on the vertical dimension as well. As such, pages are always "zoomed in" and detail and dialogue are easy to read. This obviously influences the way artists tell story through images. For example, instead of the classic "spread", we get big, tall panels in which more relevant things start appearing as you scroll down. Stylistic pause in the narrative can be achieved by using smaller panels and spreading them vertically so they remain on-screen as you scroll until you find the next. And so on. It is quite fascinating.
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ajr



Joined: 29 Nov 2010
Posts: 465
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:39 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
I think my favorite alias is Vic Filetoftommorow used in Midori Days. Despite the misspelling of "tomorrow," I like the double pun on filet mignon and mañana.

Ha, that's a good one, I'll have to keep an eye out for it when I get around to watching it.

I'm glad someone asked about Mangabox+Naver's site; I'd been wondering about that myself. Both have some pretty good series. I'm not a regular on Tapastic, but I know when MangaMagazine/Inkblazers went under a lot of the creative talent mentioned migrating to Tapastic.
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PurpleWarrior13



Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 2025
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:21 pm Reply with quote
Hameyadea wrote:

All-in-all, it looks to me like FUNi are either lazy to change the name, or want to retain some semblance of continuity from the 4Kids' dubs (why would they want to do that? Why would anyone want to do that?).


FUNi does use "Zoro" in their anime dub and subtitles. It's Viz that's still using "Zolo" for their manga translation. They originally used "Zoro" in their original printings of the first 5 volumes, but in 2004 after 4Kids' version of the anime premiered, they switched to "Zolo" in future volumes and reprintings of the first 5. Since they were around Vol. 20 in 2007 when 4Kids lost the rights, it was seen as too late to go and change it back. They are now over 60 volumes with "Zolo," making it even more pointless to go back and fix it at this point.
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