Forum - View topicThe Vision of ANNCastaflowne
|
Goto page 1, 2, 3 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | ||
|---|---|---|---|
penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
|
||
|
Reviewed this recently myself. I think it's got an amazing world and remarkable character and plot development from beginning to end. Not sure why you believe it falls apart, because it obviously gets much better as the tension further builds and further revelations are made and the character arcs all come together. You rarely see that in anime these days. Everything seems to either peter off, thematically and narratively, or just forces elements together, but Escaflowne still holds up because it ever builds.
Obviously, not everything works. I think Hitomi's behavior doesn't hold up that well, because she comes off as being incredibly selfish and puts her petty little high school romantic needs over the needs of people suffering horribly. And Allen comes off as a lot more controlling and his chivalry seems a bit empty when I look at it now. But to be fair, I think that may have been the point at times (Allen is clearly made out to be too controlling of Hitomi at one point). The Atlantis will machine is great. It's a really creative use of mythology. The intermittently momentarily transporting Hitomi's grandma? That... doesn't work quite so well. They tried to tie in Hitomi's past, but they didn't want to make Allen's father seem more terrible, so they decided to not have him have an actual affair with Hitomi's grandmother. She's just kind of there for him to see a girl from the "Mystic Moon". If Allen's father has an actual tryst with her, then he's abandoning his family AND having an affair. I think they kind of wanted to keep him from being a complete douchebag, because they wanted Allen to reconcile with his ghost. But it all somehow works out, narratively, thematically. The ending is a little vague, but I don't mind slightly vague, bittersweet endings. Maybe it could have used a few more episodes to flesh out that final war with Zaibach, but it's a satisfying watch. The point of Isaac/Dornkirk's Fate Alteration Machine is also a bit vague. He wants to create a Zone of Absolute Fortune, where everybody gets what they want. But unfortunately, it turns out that what everybody really wants is to kill each other in a huge-ass war until a special snowflake teen girl teaches them to love. But Dornkirk is creating a situation that riles up all the various nations that puts them in the position to desire that war, because they've all become paranoid and cutthroat in the face of Zaibach's encroachment. Essentially, he truly is granting everyone their wish, it just turns out the people on the battlefield are jerks. Or, at least, he believes he is. It's why he's so confounded by Van and Hitomi at the end, so much so, that he's not even that upset his plans have been thwarted. I kind of like a main villain who looks at his plans being ruined and says, "Huh. Well, I guess I was the asshole this whole time. Ah well." The Escaflowne MOVIE is a hot mess. So much gorgeous, lush artwork, some wonderful bloody combat, more of Yoko Kanno's awesome music, and just nothing to do with any of it, because it's an hour and a half long and tries to have nearly as many characters as the TV show. It ends up having one of the biggest cop-out endings I've ever seen in an animated movie. It's a very frustrating watch. The villain's motivation doesn't even make sense (instead of killing himself, he has to kill everybody else, too?). What was Dilandau even DOING in the movie? Nothing, is what. He's there for action scenes. And nothing else. But I thought they had something with Hitomi's depression and it's reflection in Van's suicidal obsession with stopping his brother. I wish they had actually fleshed that out. It would have been a great alternate take to the TV show if they didn't try to cram in characters pointlessly and actually pursued new themes with the same world. I own a copy, though. Still enjoy how good-looking it is. |
|||
|
|||
justsomeaccount
 Posts: 471 |
|
||
|
Nice podcast, it was curious to see a podcast where the show was unanimously loved by all of them. I recently watched Escaflowne about more than a month ago, just the first time, in fact I never even heard about this show's existence until a few years ago so I had no opinion going to it except it was a super popular popcorn fantasy series from the 90ths.
I thought it was... okay. It's definitely entertaining all the way through, but while it has a nice pacing during many episodes that drives you to watch more, the plot and characters and choices and behavior sometimes are likeable and fine but other times are just contrived to force conflict or move the plot forward to tiring cliches, so I was never truly engaged with the show, and when I finished my only feelings of satisfaction came from "that was awesome hand-drawn animation for a TV series / that was entertaining / that was interesting to see a show with such popularity or influence on its time", but not from a truly engagement with what was happening. In terms of the pacing, the second half is definitely more hurt about it (the Atlantis episode and the next one about the villain are pure infodump), but surprisingly it doesn't feel too accelerated in terms of "talking too fast" or something... except in the last episode of both halfs, 13 and 26, for me the worst paced episodes of all in a way that kind of destroys them. They didn't calculate well how much they had to wrap up in each end of arc and they were too jarring. I guess the fact that the second half was so compressed without taking away plot threads explains why there are so many things like that. But the most jarring of all of them is all the related with Hitomi's grandma. You know they are going to expalins what she has to do because she had that special pendent that she gave to Hitomi, but what exactly happens with her? She just appears in the planet because, just in time so Allen's dad gives her the pendient and comes back, she gives it to Hitomi, that's it. This plot thread is completely awful, without explanation, the timeline doesn't make sense (does the time flow differently in Gaia or something? Because, how a middle-age Allen's father found a teenager Hitomi's grandma? Allen's father must have had his son waaaay too late and Hitomi's grandma and mother waaaay too early to make sense) and it just feels like a laaaame excuse to relate Hitomi to the planet and the power and to Allen. I also have no clear how Hitomi's power works. We know the one from the premise of the show, she sees the future and tries to act to prevent it from happening. However, when they reveal the twist that "her thinkings/emotions were changing the destiny", I'm not sure if it's just ANOTHER power she had, or it was actually the real power she thought it was reading the future. Because if it's the latter, I don't buy that when she was in a completely different place and a dangerous future comes to her mind of things she doesn't even know happened because of her when they are natural consequences and she had no knowledge of that. And even then, afterwards I'm not even sure they use the plot twist about her emotions again, I think only when she tried to change the princess' future to be with the merchant prince, but that's it. Geez, the second half is very confusing... The albino character / Allen's sister was disappointing for me, but because when they reveal his/her twist was actually interesting. However, in the first half of the show the character is aaaalways fighting the main group every episode or two episodes; but never having interesting development or hints, just being crazy and evil. And then in the second half after the first battle he is out until the last episodes, then they reveal the twist. However, it's not a twist that made you said "ohhh! That explains some things in his/her behavior before in the first half, now everything makes sense, how well planned!" (in fact, you can think that it's too much of a coincidence that Allen and he/she are related. Hell, Allen ends up related with all the characters in the most contrived ways, what a sad character), so you think the interesting stuff would come afterwards and how the characters act, but there is so little time that there are no interesting things to be done with it. All the Allen's parallelism stuff that you talked in the podcast is not reflected or referenced in the show by the characters or reminded, it's just "now Allen knows, he wants to save her". Also, they throw this dog knight character who cared so much of Allen's sister but he only appears on the last episodes and it feels so forced you don't feel anything about him (and how easy would have been if he was a background character all the time). In concept Allen's sister was the most interesting (and his/her voice and faces were hilarious), but in execution it doesn't pay off. But overall that's how I felt: Fine show, I get why it's so popular, it mixes so many genres [we got fantasy! and swords! and dragons! and mechas! and technology! and romance! and a normal girl travelling to other world! and metaconcepts like luck and destiny being played out!] and yet they are still decently enough mixed up without feeling too much; the animation and coreography is great, it's never boring and while I'm not too fond of the characters they had their moments and they were never annoying or tiring. |
|||
|
|||
|
me_barron
Posts: 173 |
|
||
|
"It'll be twenty years old next year" Goddammit time! Why you make me old?
|
|||
|
|||
MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5316 |
|
||
|
I saw the Movie right after the TV show, so maybe that is why I didn't notice the lack of explanation. But in all honesty I liked the Movie, their new personalities weren't all bad.
I'm getting the show and film later this year, maybe my opinion will have changed. |
|||
|
|||
Angel M Cazares
 Posts: 5424 Location: Iscandar |
|
||
|
I absolutely agree that when watching a cherished show you should be able to put your feelings aside and be able to look at it in a critical way. One of the issues I often have with people grading anime is that they tend to give their most beloved shows high marks even if it is of lower quality. The opposite can also be true when high quality shows are given low marks simply because that person hated it.
The show where my love for it has clouded my judgment is Code Geass. It is my second favorite anime of all time (behind FMA: Brotherhood), and I initially rated it Excellent. But as time has passed and I have watched more anime, my rating for it now is Very good, and if someone convincingly argues that it is only a Good show, I could be persuaded to lower my rating again. |
|||
|
|||
|
Murmur
Posts: 2 |
|
||
|
Funny that I noticed this podcast, just a few days ago I finished rewatching Vision of Escafllowne and felt that the show suffered from bad directing.
The show kept falling on its face with odd plot points or threads that go nowhere, scenes jumping around and not explaining much, music (abet good music) put in the oddest places not capturing the emotion of the scene and poor character growth. etc I think they should of taken all the crap about angels, finding Alen's father, and the double love triangle (love diamond?) and focused on the story about an empire trying to conquer the world it would of spent more time on the ideals that make the show good. |
|||
|
|||
|
Lynx Amali
|
|
||
|
The thing I will give the movie is the pilot system for the Gymelefs, due to the way the movie portrays them like being really, really rare and super old. I liked it more than the show. It gave it a sense of risk vs reward, what with it being much more physically demanding and digging into the operator's flesh. The animation too. Dear god, it was not deserving of that absolute gorgeous animation. It gave the mechs such amazing weight when they did fight. I also actually like some of the redesigns in the movie more than the show too.
I would've liked to see the original vision that the numerous people who worked on it had. But alas, it was not meant to be. I do like the final product though, although I did feel the second half kinda loses a bit of momentum it had built in the first half. It needs to show up in Super Robot Wars again too, preferably voiced. Compact 3 didn't do it justice given it only has, what....4 mechs? It was also Compact 3, the game in which if you were sane you would solo with Folka and Ialdabaoth and maybe somebody fairly decent at shooting down missiles because Omega Missiles from Mechander Robo are incredibly annoying. |
|||
|
Lord Geo
Posts: 2545 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
|
||
|
Much like Ashley, I was first introduced to Escaflowne via the Fox Kids airing, and wouldn't see the entire thing until about 2005 or so. I really enjoyed the TV series at the time, and I had considered re-watching the show now so that I could volunteer for this episode, but at the same time I want my re-watch to be via the upcoming FUNimation re-release, which will likely include a Blu-Ray release, and for once I'm being picky like that. I still hold other titles from the decade in more regard as time has gone on, but Escaflowne is important to me from the perspective of it establishing me as a future anime fan. It should be interesting to re-watch it eventually. I will agree that Escaflowne was more of a fantasy series than a mecha series, but it is an interesting way to handle mecha nonetheless.
As for the movie, I have the big bread box that Bandai put out & I did watch it... But like Hope I barely remember any of it. The only part that comes to mind is the first time Van & Hitomi fly about on Escaflowne's dragon mode, and that's mainly because "We Are Flying" is a beautiful song. As for nostalgia clouding one's ability to judge something critically, I'll both agree & disagree, depending on the situation. I definitely had a moment of nostalgia clouding my feelings when I tried giving an episode of Voltron a watch when Media Blasters gave it its first re-release, and I was surprised by how utterly horrible the English voice acting was. At the same time, however, I then remembered that all of my nostalgia was for the robot itself & not the characters or story. In that way I still hold Voltron to some regard, but only in the way that the robot itself is really memorable & cool. I have re-watched numerous anime years after I first watched them, but for the most part I haven't really been disappointed or ever wondered "How in the would did I enjoy this crap?" like most people seem to be come out of re-watches. I guess part of that may be that my tastes haven't really changed much from what I likes a decade ago, if anything I've simply expanded my tastes instead of altered, but another part of it is that I try to remember why I enjoyed it in the first place. That way, when I'm doing a re-watch I'll come to accept & understand what I found good about something in the past, even if it isn't appealing to me quite as much as it once did. Then again, however, I still have plenty of stuff to go back to, so that could always change. |
|||
|
|||
David.Seth
 Posts: 453 Location: near SF |
|
||
Same here. I was just getting into anime back then, but I was just watching anime films, not series. But I watched Escaflowne out of curiosity, and I could tell right away that this was different than other cartoon shows. It was amazing. I only watched a few episodes before it got yanked from TV, but it left such a wonderful impression on me. Escaflowne (and the PBS airing of Evangelion) led me to seek out more TV series. Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Lain, Slayers, Key the Metal Idol and Golden Boy were all series/ova's that I watched following my brief experience with Fox Kids Escaflowne. I remember finally purchasing the DVD box set and watching the whole series. Such fond memories. This podcast convinced me to rewatch it soon. Though I'll probably wait for the Funimation release. |
|||
|
|||
|
GordanHam
Posts: 151 |
|
||
|
Wish they would have waited for FUNimation's re-release of the show until they did an episode on it......
|
|||
|
|||
|
grooven
Posts: 1424 Location: Canada |
|
||
|
I never had any desire to watch it when it aired. I did see clips and wasn't impressed at what i saw. The character designs were such a turn off for me and still are. The plot seemed always so standard fantasy other world thing. I feel like I'm missing out, but I think it'll feel very dated if I do watch it. This podcast makes me want to try. Should I try watching it?
|
|||
|
|||
mbanu
 Posts: 159 |
|
||
|
No mention of Akane's other classic, Heat Guy J?
|
|||
|
|||
|
Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
|
||
No, it doesn't feel dated at all. The character design is lets say very peculiar. I don't like, it felt like watching a bunch of Pinocchios or Cyranos de Bergerac on steroids (and people complain about the character designer of Gundun Seed  ). Well designed noses would have gone a long long way in making the characters more palatable. In any case IF you can make it through the awful noses the rest is pretty decent. As Zac says Escaflowne is 2 shows in 1. The first part is really tight, plenty of action and character development. The second part is where it starts to fall apart. Even so the show is worthy of being watched.
This is a show that would have benefited from : either having 40-50 episodes, or having a rewrite for a 26 episode series. Because what we got in the end was a 40 episode story condensed in 26 episodes. The second part of the story doesn't feel right, it goes too fast and relies too much on a single gimmick. And because of this I can't rate it an A. It's a B maybe even a B+ if you want to push it that far. |
|||
|
|||
|
GalicianNightmare
Posts: 124 |
|
||
|
Loved this anime. Amazing. It also had the highest budget of any TV anime for a time, until Gundam SEED Destiny dethroned it, which itself was dethroned by Afro Samurai. No wonder it looks as good as Gundam 0083.
Animation is also decent, but some fights are OVA quality in terms of fluidity. |
|||
|
|||
FireChick
 Subscriber Posts: 2391 Location: United States |
|
||
|
I like this anime. I first saw it in 2012, and it's the only anime I've seen in more than two languages (English, Japanese, German, and Italian). But Dilandau's voice is hilariously chirpy in the English version, and I hope FUNimation re-dubs it with a better cast and dubs the deleted scenes.
|
|||
|
|||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group