Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Snow White with the Red Hair
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sunflower
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Yay the animation is back to normal in episode 14! I hope they don't run out of time again. Episode 13 was crap.
I thought it was pretty clear from 14 that Raj and Shirayuki have no interest in one another, they're just being forced into close proximity, by Izana to see if Shirayuki just wants the easy royal blood wedding, and by Raj's attendant to see if she can keep Raj on the improving track he's on. That latter is not so clear, but to me it feels like there's nothing romantic about the trip, just politics and friendship. I love the dance between Shirayuki and Zen (not literal), expressing their love by accepting and conquering challenges thrown at them, becoming stronger and more capable of supporting their love as they meet each one. Zen is more flamboyant in his love. But that stare that Shirayuki gives Izana before she leaves says everything to me. She'll face anything he throws at her and won't back down, until he accepts her. I love these characters and this show. |
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Go Mifune
 Posts: 63 |
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Let me say first, we all like different things and that is fine.
But why do we get another season of this horribly boring show, and have not even an announcement for another run of Yona? Especially since it is at the part of the story where Yona actually starts really doing things, with the formation of the Happy Hungry Bunch! I mean Yona takes spoiler[ out a sex trafficking tyrant! While Shirayuki studies herbalism "because she wants to..." and...?] If it were not for the great animation quality of Bones, I would have dropped this show long ago, and may do so this season if these quirks keep up and there remains absolutely no character development. I mean, I may have missed it, but please point out any thing that Shirayuki accomplished something by the force of her own will, because I really can't recall any. (except fleeing her country due to a creep.) |
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chito895
 Posts: 512 Location: Lima, Peru |
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I think Shirayuki has done pretty much her whole current life all by herself. She's not a warrior like Yona, but Shirayuki's stong will let's her fight and achieve things without the urgent need to ask for help. She knows she can do things by herself, like when she managed to become court herbalist thanks to her own knowledge, or when she help the 20 something soldiers from that front, or when she faced Lord Haruka, or when she jumped from that tower while that Lord trapped her during the trial of the birds. She won't do amazing things like Yona such as recovering her own kingdom or take out tyrants, but what Shirayuki, a common villager, gets to do is pretty amazing, too.
But anyway, I agree with Sunflower that Ep. 13 looked bad. It seemed like Bones did it in a hurry one day before Fall season started and left that episode like that. Hopefully they'll fix it for the physical release. But it seems that they are back on track, because Ep. 14 looked beautiful as always. And what is better is that this whole episode focused more on Obi. Which is great because I love that guy. I was whishing during episode 13 that the one going with Shirayuki to Tanbarun was Obi, then they said it was Hide, which left me like "meh", but it seems like Obi thought "Nope, fudge him, I want to be with her", and then challenged Zen in a scene that seemed to reassure us that this season will keep looking awesome until the end. Yep, an excellent episode. |
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Go Mifune
Posts: 63 |
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They keep telling us that, but I want to see it in ways other than the mediocre ways they have been.
Right, because it is so revolutionary in 2016 for a woman to be intelligent or knowledgeable, especially with reference to herbal medicine. I think it also pertinent with this that the current chief herbalist (and many other herbalists) are women, so hardly a case of going against the norm in this world.
You mean where he said "Leave!" and she replied "No, I won't!"
I will have to admit, that was my favorite arc. But it sort of came down to (in the absence of a savior) she will choose fleeing in a way that could lead to the possibility of death (the jump) over remaining captive. (not at all saying that physically she was not outclassed by this villain, but that is where her intelligence ought to have kicked in yeah?)
I agree that 13 was much worse than 14 but it still had some off model. Specifically when Zen was seeing them off. I said we all like different things, and glad some people like the show, it is far better than a good deal of stuff I won't speak of, but this show has had me fall asleep on more than one occasion. That is a reflection on my interests, and if it engages others, that is all good. But I would rather see (from the manga) spoiler[Yona alter a villain into a good person through the force of her compassion, inspire another young woman to fight for good (in their own way) and prevent an invasion, travel to a border country to reconnoiter, etc.] but that is also what inspires me and doesn't reflect on others preferences. Obi being her guardian was so obvious and is so rote it isn't funny and seems the only way to introduce tension by standard love triangle methods (and will probably lead to more standard rote material.) I will also tack on here, that I really don't see any character development going on, and that is also important to me. In fact, the only char. development seems to be more in Zen (a little) and possibly Raji. Don't want to bog the thread down, I think it boring, others don't, that is fine, just as subjective as the reviews. |
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mandisaw
 Posts: 140 |
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First, I quick *squee* for the start of S1B, because I'm already in the mood for some lighter fare this winter (also making my way through Natsume Yuujinchou after years of recommendations).
I agree that ep13 felt very ho-hum/another-day-at-the-palace. There's a lot more action to be had further-on, and last season did similar "budget-friendly" eps. so I don't think it's indicative of an overall slide in quality. Ep14 mostly did justice to my "required viewing" scenes/elements so I can forgive the rest.
[X] Obi vs Zen / Obi's declaration [X] Zen & SY's private farewell [X] Obi in livery, speaking like a gentleman (I would've liked the fight to be longer, but we got more time for the private farewell, so ahh... 
Hey, I hear you, and I'm sure there are a lot of people in this thread who would also love to see Yona get a S2 (and 3, 4...). But it's really not a this-or-that decision - there's no finite pool for shoujo series, where SY is taking Yona's "slot". Besides which, there's no straight comparison of the two series. SY's only had it's introductory arc animated out of what is a fundamentally slower-moving, more character-centric/lighthearted story. Yona had 2 arcs animated out of a longer, more complex, and highly action/drama-oriented story. It's like saying why can't Fruits Basket be more like 12 Kingdoms - they're just different, and happily we can have both.
Not gonna spoil, but maybe flip back to some earlier comments from S1. This is very much a story that plays around with genre expectations. Obi looks like your standard also-ran Bachelor #2, but he, as a character, and his relationship with both Zen & Shirayuki, are more complicated than that. Obi gets a lot of screen time this season, and given his demeanor, he probably doesn't spend it all just mooning about dreaming of unrequited love. Last arc had a lot of what-makes-Zen-tick, with the Mitsuhide origin story, and the interplay betw. Zen & Izana, and Zen & Raj. We actually don't know all that much about Shirayuki's own origins/motivations pre-ep1, and now we're in her homeland, hopefully we'll get that chance. I say give it a couple more eps to see where/how it goes - you can always rewatch Yona later
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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@Go Mifune: While I certainly agree that Yona deserves a second season (the manga just keeps getting better and better! I'd die to see the spoiler[other dragons' backstories animated, as well as the Water Tribe arc and the Tae-Jun arc]) and that it is a far more ground-breaking series as far as female role models, I don't think it's adequate to diss Shirayuki for not having the same kind of strength that Yona does.
There are different ways in which women can be strong and smart, and Shirayuki has repeatedly proven that she is both. Sure, Shirayuki doesn't take on drug dealers and sex slavers, but she uses her intelligence to solve different problems, including the time when she was kidnapped by Mihaya and was able to use her herbal knowledge to escape. When she jumped from the tower, it wasn't just to escape her captor, but also because if she hadn't done so, the test they were doing with the birds would have failed due to the corrupt nobleman's scheme. She may not be putting arrows through evil politicians' heads, but she's still able to face them head on and come out of it victorious. But more importantly, that the Shirayuki anime got a second season does not in any way "steal" Yona's slot. It's very likely that Shirayuki was planned as a split-cour to begin with. What's really in the way of Yona from getting a second season is the fact that its DVD/BDs sold like absolute crap (thanks Japan  ). I don't know if the merch or manga boost compensated for that in any way, but I'm not holding my breath about it, sadly.
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mandisaw
Posts: 140 |
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I used to moon about hoping for S2's of awesome-but-incomplete anime, but then I just started reading manga and gave up. This week's Answerman column actually gets into it pretty succinctly. This sort of thing is endemic among shoujo & josei series, and it'll drive you mad eventually unless you find a zen-like acceptance (no pun intended). In Yona's case, I got to thinking, "well heck, just *which* arc would you animate", and it got depressing after a while - Fire, Water, or spoiler[Zeno]?? And don't get me started on Skip Beat, Saiunkoku, or 12 Kingdoms... (or Basara, or Please Save My Earth, if I wanna show my age) Thank you for pointing out the different "strengths" of women/female characters. I think it's actually pretty awesome that SY gets to be portrayed as "strong & determined" without having to personally kick anyone's ass. I mean, I love those chars too, but wanting to be the best (female) doctor you can be is *still* a BFD in Real-World Modern US (and a lot of other places), so I think there's plenty of room in the pantheon of shoujo heroines for our little green-eyed redhead. |
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Go Mifune
Posts: 63 |
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Yep. I read it, but knew most of it already. And believe him when he says things are much better, the 90's was horrible with it. Not new to animae or this site, I just didn't participate until a few months ago.
This is certainly true-- the worst of it is that the very best shoujo/josei generally don't get more seasons. (of course that is opinion and what makes the best in my opinion is strong female characters that don't lose themselves-- actually very surprised that Fam is getting a movie!)
A remake of 12 Kingdoms would be welcome! Though my interest did wane after the story stopped centering on Youko before it dropped off. My first was Speed Racer back in 1974, but by "my age" I am guessing you probably mean the age I was watching Voltron back in the 80's.
Certainly, I will admit that I am pretty critical of roles, etc. but also note that what makes Yona so powerful is her kindness and compassion, things that are usually attributed to women but done so as weakness.
Here is the real catch, I have not talked to a single person who watched it through and doesn't think this.
Didn't really mean to imply this at all, just expressing frustration. And you are right, it may have been planned as a split cour, or at least green lit once everyone liked this not Disney-like "Disney-like" show. (Wait, they don't bust into song every other scene? Nope? That is hallmark Disney )
<3 <3 <3 <3
I know what you are referencing. He even said something to that new character of the sort.-- Now are you referencing the manga here? You sound like you know what is going to happen. And this season is so slim, I will probably stick with it especially if Bones gets their act together (which is not something I thought I would ever say) -- just I have literally fallen asleep like 3 times to this show (that I remember)-- and that isn't common for me.
This is extremely rare for me to do. I have read less than 10 manga. I read Akatsuki no Yona because 1) I was afraid the were not going to finish it and 2) I loved it that much. I am an animation fan. It is by far my favorite medium. I would come home from school and watch about 4 hours a day, then about 8 hours on Saturnday. I was lucky my high school offered animation to fill the art requirement. If it is animated, I will watch it. That is how I roll 
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18189 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Can't agree at at all here. Whether you look at the anime version as a stand-alone or as an adaptation of the books, it was a stellar effort. My only complaint is that the animation quality could fluctuate greatly, which is a particularly big deal in a series whose base artwork is so pretty. This is one of my all-time-favorite series (I rewatch its third arc at least once a year) and I have trouble imagining how it could be redone better. Now, animating more of the books (or, for that matter, releasing in English the books which go beyond the end of the anime) would be welcome. On a somewhat related point, I never watched Yona beyond its second episode (was interested but it was a casualty of having too much other stuff that season that I also wanted to watch), but I got the distinct impression that it was going to handle its heroine's development in much the same way that 12K handled Youko. Did that end up being a fair comparison? And concerning the actual, proper topic of this thread, I agree with others that ep 14 was a recovery from the artistic sag of ep 13, but only a partial one. Still, I like what I have seen so far story-wise (the languid pacing bothered me a little in the first season but I'm comfortable with it now) and am fully on board for this season, too. |
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Go Mifune
Posts: 63 |
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I agree. I hear what you are saying but any continuation would be done differently methodologically and probably stylistically (which would just drive me bonkers, just a peeve thing for me.)
I don't think it is based mostly on the respective positions they find themselves in. Youko is thrust into a situation where she is told that she has power, and her development is around accepting that power and responsibility and then taking throne and resulting power struggles. Yona's development centers being powerless and having to become powerful, even if there is a (somewhat constant) reminder that Yona is also born powerful. It would be too long for me to express clearly why I think not, and one could easily make the argument of how they are similar as well. But another major distinction is that with Youko it is basically top down and how they need to direct the others for the benefit of the kingdom; while Yona is bottom up and how best to work with others for the kingdom.
I could probably be comfortable with it too if I found the story engaging, since it really isn't a "problem" with the pacing, it is just a slower paced show. |
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mandisaw
Posts: 140 |
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It's been tossed around too many places to quote, but I did want to clarify that SY was presented as a split-cour show from the start. If you check the series page, the early promo articles mention it.
Yes, I've read the manga, but no, I'm not specifically referencing any future events here. Playing around with genre/story expectations is a recurring motif in this story - the author does it a lot, from all the way back in ep1/ch1 with SY ditching Prince Raj, and Zen's "I have built up an immunity to Iocane powder". Even Zen & Izana having a relationship built on true, mutual brotherly love, and being "royals who actually do work" bucks the usual stereotypes. Izana does like to tease - and train - Zen pretty mercilessly, but there's none of the overt rivalry or mistrust/abuse that you see in most stories about royal siblings.
For 12 Kingdoms, I have to say that I'd prefer the rest of the novels over either a redux or a continuation of the anime. It's been so many years since the anime was on, that it's highly unlikely they'd continue in that style, or with that level of detail. And a crappy adaptation of 12K would make me weep (or more likely rant all over the interwebs). Yona is more recent, but I kind of wish it had gotten the old NHK treatment that 12K (or Saiunkoku) got - 39ep seasons, with loads of loving attention paid to the series' breadth of worldbuilding & semi-random characters. The non-ending it got was standard, but a continuation covering really any of the later arcs would be appreciated. Just not apparently by folks who buy DVDs in Japan 
@Go Mifune, I like your point about Yona & Youko's respective positions/directions, but despite Yona's upbringing, her story was as much about taking responsibility as Youko [Edit]. I'm several chapters behind on Yona, but I think her story will eventually lead her to accept that *not* being the ruler is in fact the best route for her people. @Key, I'd suggest watching Yona (the series) at least through ep3 or 5. The first two eps really don't give much sense of Yona (the character), or the tone of the story, as they are very exposition/setup laden. Yona is very much a character-driven, realpolitik series, where 12K was much more of a traditional epic fantasy - both good, both crunchy, but very different in tone & treatment of their material. |
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mandisaw
Posts: 140 |
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(Mods might want to combine this, but it is totally a separate convo, so I leave it to your discretion.)
I can't urge you more strongly to reconsider. Going anime-only is a major hindrance as a shoujo/josei fan. The number of manga-based, shoujo/female-directed stories I can think of that were animated in their entirety is very low - Sailor Moon (minus some side stories), Fushigi Yuugi, some CLAMP works like Cardcaptor Sakura and X/1999, and a few like Child's Toy and Marmalade Boy where the anime extended the manga. For non-magical-girl series, or series aimed at older readers, it's practically unheard of to get more than a 12-24ep manga commercial :sigh: I was also very reluctant to get into manga - too many bad experiences with US mainstream comics (and comics fans) - but so many awesome series are available today, through so many convenient avenues, that it's a veritable cornucopia of cool stories. Especially if what you are looking for isn't the current fad, or you get a couple seasons where nothing much appeals, manga comes in handy. I'd say getting deeper into manga is like finding out your well-explored library had a whole *other* library stashed away underneath 
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Gina Szanboti
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^ Yeah, down in the archives. Reading manga is like trying to read microfiche. It's just exhausting.
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mandisaw
Posts: 140 |
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I disagree completely, but extra funny points for librarian humor, I will have to pass that one along.
I've come across folks who claim to be actively watching / sampling every new show each season - that's exhausting to me. I plan to check out maybe Erased and Girls beyond the Wasteland, but Shirayuki is my only must-watch this season. Even when I ran an anime club, I don't think I ever watched more than 4 or 5 shows to completion each year. Manga though... at the height of the US manga boom, I had a weekly "pull" at the comic shop of like 6-8 titles. Plus con vendors and twice-weekly trips to the discount Japanese/English manga shops. Good times
It's more the art & content though - in a good creator's hands, the layouts & action are dynamic and engaging, the panels fluid, and the writing enthralling. All the narrative richness of books, but the visual storytelling of animation. There are some manga I've read only "to finish the story", where it's basically talking heads, but others are like reading someone's acid trip - only with fewer/no content & budget restrictions. To each their own, but it's a good time (again) to be an English-translated manga reader IMO. Might want to check some of the better ones out. |
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Go Mifune
Posts: 63 |
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I generally recommend through ep. 6 spoiler[once she cuts her hair, it is on] I will PM you with other parts of this convo, just wanted to put that in there for Key. |
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