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EP. REVIEW: Snow White with the Red Hair


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chex mix



Joined: 28 Mar 2015
Posts: 415
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:57 pm Reply with quote
mandisaw wrote:

Hello Bucket wrote:
Worse, the show has been pretty bad with villains.

The jerkface noble shooting the birds was pretty bad. His overweening sense of entitlement combined with the fisherman-girl's skimpy outfits always made me think the story about birds was an allegory for "prima noctae", in an editor-approved fashion. (Apparently the wedding night aspect is historically contested, but nobles having their way with commoners is fairly well confirmed.)



That's totally what I got out of it too.

I also think there are too many storylines going on at once, yet oddly it also feels like nothing is happening at all. I guess everything is going to end up getting smushed together as all our disparate princes and heroes finally learn to get along. Or something.

Also, I despise the pixie twins -- hopefully once their use as a plot device comes to an end, their presence on the show does as well.
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sunflower



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:58 am Reply with quote
Well, at least that's the last time Shirayuki is ever kidnapped. I have to say of all the arcs in the manga this is my least favorite. I wish they had more time to throw in some better ones. The episode was also one of my least favorite so far. Everyone just stood around and looked stupid.
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:37 pm Reply with quote
Kazuki's motives in taking Shirayuki seem much better than I was thinking they were, provided what I am speculating is correct. I'm thinking that spoiler[Kazuki and Itoya are members of the anti bandit militia that Raj mentioned, and are taking her to the leader, who is Shirayuki's heretofore unknown father, both to her and the audience. Not sure about whether her mom is still in the picture. I imagine he won't be keen on letting his daughter go, but I imagine her determination to be with Zen will convince him to let her go. Or she'll do what she wants and escape. Not sure if Izana's threat will be called in during this either. If it is I'm thinking Zen would gladly abdicate from his position as prince to be with Shirayuki.]
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mandisaw



Joined: 12 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:21 am Reply with quote
This is one of my favorite parts of this arc, as an Obi fan, but the action scene in the forest and some of the wide shots seemed a bit wonky to me. I usually don't rewatch, but I was tired and distracted when this was on, so I may do just that.

sunflower wrote:
Well, at least that's the last time Shirayuki is ever kidnapped. I have to say of all the arcs in the manga this is my least favorite. I wish they had more time to throw in some better ones. The episode was also one of my least favorite so far. Everyone just stood around and looked stupid.


Well... there is character development, and folks do take turns being capable and badass, but I agree, this isn't as SY-centric as some other arcs (incl the first one). Besides the actual storyline, I'm still hoping they'll splice in Kiki's origin story like they did Mitsuhide's in S1a.

I see this as the ep where we see everyone else lose their sh-t when Shirayuki is taken. It's all well and good to hear the blandishments and promises, but this is where all that loyalty she's cultivated is put to the test. In-universe, it really is meant to be quite remarkable that Zen and Raj personally step up to recover SY. And of course Obi completely loses that veneer of civilization that he's been affecting Very Happy
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Merida



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:04 am Reply with quote
While i did enjoy seeing Zen and Raj working together and Raj's chracter development in general (and Raj's pretty sexy dad!), the double-kidnapping still made me roll my eyes quite a bit.

It does make sense that Shirayuki would be in shock and i'm not expecting her to fight her way out of there since she's only a civilian without any sort of combat training after all, but she's also smart and strong-willed, so i really hope she'll get over her "passively pining for Zen" phase eventually...
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vonPeterhof



Joined: 10 Nov 2014
Posts: 729
PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:16 pm Reply with quote
mandisaw wrote:
This is one of my favorite parts of this arc, as an Obi fan, but the action scene in the forest and some of the wide shots seemed a bit wonky to me.
I'm assuming you had this scene in mind. Apparently it was done by Takashi Mukouda, who does have a tendency to get somewhat liberal with character models in more dynamic scenes. I don't always like his scenes, but in this case I thought his style worked pretty well to emphasize the swiftness and suddenness of Obi's assault, as well as his almost animal rage.
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mandisaw



Joined: 12 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:01 pm Reply with quote
vonPeterhof wrote:
mandisaw wrote:
This is one of my favorite parts of this arc, as an Obi fan, but the action scene in the forest and some of the wide shots seemed a bit wonky to me.
I'm assuming you had this scene in mind. Apparently it was done by Takashi Mukouda, who does have a tendency to get somewhat liberal with character models in more dynamic scenes. I don't always like his scenes, but in this case I thought his style worked pretty well to emphasize the swiftness and suddenness of Obi's assault, as well as his almost animal rage.


That's the one alright :/ The fight scene during the actual (first) abduction was done really well, and all of the palace establishing shots & character close-ups were beautiful. But while I respect artistic flexibility, I'm not sure I was expecting it to change mid-episode.

I will check out those other links when I'm back on desktop, thanks Smile
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mandisaw



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:43 pm Reply with quote
Ep 18 - In which Shirayuki puts her "big girl" panties on and gets stuff done. That pirate woman has *really* got some bad karma coming to her after this mess.

Also, if Izana & Zen split up control over the kingdom, Kiki should totally be Zen's general, while Mitsuhide should be like head of the Home Guard or somesuch. "Hold this for me, hon, mama's got to go to work." Very Happy

This one ticked all the character-moment boxes for me, and glad to see the art's pretty much back to normal as well.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:06 pm Reply with quote
I'm glad Kiki finally got something to do in this season; she has been pretty much AWOL so far. I still would like to see an episode with her back story. A nice off-duty sequence where she goes drinking with Mitsuhide and Obi would be fun but might be a bit of a stretch for a shoujo confection like Shirayuki-hime.

That said, I've found this season less interesting than the first. This one feels much more cliched with its "damsel-in-distress" aspects. Shirayuki herself has been more of a victim and less the strong independent young woman we were treated to at the beginning. She gets to have her moments like in this episode, but she's still waiting to be rescued by her prince. Maybe she'll rise to the occasion in the next episode.

Shirayuki reminds me of Shurrei from Saiunkoku Monogatari in many ways. In that story, too, the feisty young heroine is at one point spoiler[kidnapped and must be rescued by the male lead.]. These stories seem out-of-place in both shows, almost as if the original authors felt the need to include them to conform to genre conventions.
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myskaros



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:59 pm Reply with quote
I don't think it's unreasonable to show Shirayuki in situations where she can, correctly, determine that she must just wait. Being a strong woman is one thing, knowing your own strengths, weaknesses, and capabilities is another. I would be more disappointed if she was able to deus ex machina her way out of the hands of trained killers because it breaks the wall a bit too much; it's much more believable and in-character to show her being defiant, to show her displaying her skills when they are relevant to the situation (she's an herbalist/healer, she's not secretly a ninja), and to show her frustration at being unable to do anything about her current plight.

First season was all about how she could subvert people's expectations because they were not willing to believe a woman could do anything about her own plight. She showed ingenuity, yes, but her opponents had their guards down as well. I'm actually really enjoying these last few episodes - we get to see how our main cast acts when they truly do not hold all the cards and have to really work at solving this problem, something that can't be solved simply by being persistent.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:17 pm Reply with quote
Episode 18
Quote:
We've seen it now, though, and have to wonder which is the act – how he usually is, or the catlike beast?

That's like asking whether your cat is acting when it rubs your legs and purrs, or when it dismembers small animals. Neither one is an act, it's all parts of who he is (even if he's not quite at home yet all spiffed up in the royal court).

It's really bugging me that the pirate group is name Claws of the Sea instead of say, Fangs of the Sea, since their leader goes by Sea Serpent. While it's not unheard of, traditionally sea serpents have not been depicted with legs like dragons. I suppose she could have taken over from some dude name Sea Lion and never bothered to change their name.
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zensunni



Joined: 05 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:46 pm Reply with quote
Well, in episode 17, when they said that the pirates were best found by looking in the mountains, I knew exactly what they meant, since Raj had just talked about the group of vigilantes in the mountains who were maintaining order and had been given the King's blessing. It was clear that they were referring to these people as the most likely to have insight into the pirate's hiding places and such.
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Go Mifune



Joined: 11 Nov 2015
Posts: 63
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:42 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
I'm glad Kiki finally got something to do in this season; she has been pretty much AWOL so far.
....
These stories seem out-of-place in both shows, almost as if the original authors felt the need to include them to conform to genre conventions.


And just as Obi last week, she is robbed of having anything meaningful occur with her.

The only one who gained (meaning lived up to my hopes as noted a few weeks back) was Raj. I definitely think that this and the last were the best episodes of the show so far, but the story continues to let me down.

As for conventions, yeah, that is my impression and what frustrates me. I will grant that it has been good about particular manga/anime conventions- but as far as "princess" conventions it has not.

--
mandisaw - looks like I am back to criticizing the story Wink

Well to be fair, I have extremely high standards. (I have never given a 5 to any of the polls in the reviews yet and 4 1/2 are rare- and Yona would not have gotten any fives either.)

So let me explain the what i would have liked to see and why story-wise given that we had a kidnapping. First, working with what we have when she was taken, I would have liked to see Obi have been successful in rescuing SY and not Zen. This is because I would have liked to see him reaffirm Zen's faith in him, prove that Zen was not amiss in his giving this responsibility and assure to Shirayuki that she need not rely on Zen alone. (and I am talking in a way that doesn't become a weird love triangle)

Next, I would have loved for Kiki to also prove her worth. And that means taking care of a certain sick pirate leader. Barring Obi taking care of this, it should have been Kiki. So I guess that it would have entailed giving another character for Obi to overcome.

Now before my critique centered around the character development of SY and Zen, which was pointed out have different strengths than characters in other shows, that has been accepted. But now they had the chance to develop the others and they did to some extent, but really they were reduced to delivery service for the most part. And thee are the "action" characters--

I also think that the above would have developed Zen's character in a favorable light. Zen previously had shown his resolve and his capabilities for combat. The above would have shown light into his ability to bring together capable people. And that is primarily what a capable prince/king does and is the measure of their success. The ability to bring together capable people to work together to solve problems successfully is what determines the meddle of a king.

As I noted above, Raj is the only one who grew and "succeeded"- which was nice on the one hand, on the other it tied straight in to the over all message that bugs me. -- There is ONE person you can rely on, and they are special because they are a prince and do everything themselves (because everyone else is an unreliable failure.)

Now, that is pure opinion, purely what I like and obviously this isn't that kind of story- but you have to admit, that the One Reliable Person is sorta like a convention, particularly in "princess" stories.

Then, the ending I had figured out about 6 episodes before when they first introduced Kazuki, ore in the episode after.

It is great the production is back up, but sadly I still find it a mediocre story. But once again, I have very high standards.
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mandisaw



Joined: 12 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:54 pm Reply with quote
Ep 19 was a significant chunk of what I wanted to see this season, so I'm really all good here. Now that I know the off-model stuff is just how the director does some action scenes, I was prepared for it. Plus that pirate woman got some karma right in the teeth Evil or Very Mad

Ready for my dancing/singing Ewoks/jub-jub scene with the Lions now Smile

Go Mifune wrote:
mandisaw - looks like I am back to criticizing the story...

No worries, critique away Smile

Quote:
There is ONE person you can rely on, and they are special because they are a prince and do everything themselves (because everyone else is an unreliable failure.)

This might be an unfair summary of all that you wrote, but I think it's the key point where we diverge. I agree on most of it - this really is the weakest arc as-written as far as story & character development, and as-mentioned, SY is more of an object & catalyst than an actor.

But the one story-strength of this arc is its display of teamwork, even among people who otherwise would not / should not work together. Zen-gumi, Mihaya, Raj/Royal Tanbarun, the Lions of the Mountain, all of them have heretofore been at odds with one another. Like, "throw them in irons on sight" at-odds. But they come together with the common goal of rescuing Shirayuki, and all the relationships are the stronger for it. (Well, not necessarily the Tanbaruni Royals & the Lions, but I doubt they're going to prison, either.)

Sidelining Zen & SY was forced & artificial, but the end result was an arc that highlighted the second-stringers, albeit briefly. All the rest of the manga to-date goes back to focusing almost entirely on Zen, the prince who actually works, and Shirayuki, the "princess" who's not afraid to get dirty, so I can forgive this interlude. I suspect rather than conforming to genre expectations, the editorial direction here might've been to spice things up with some action & a villain, and give ensemble-darkhorse Obi more "screen-time".

-----------------

And on that note:
Gina Szanboti wrote:

Review wrote:
We've seen it now, though, and have to wonder which is the act – how he usually is, or the catlike beast?

That's like asking whether your cat is acting when it rubs your legs and purrs, or when it dismembers small animals. Neither one is an act, it's all parts of who he is (even if he's not quite at home yet all spiffed up in the royal court).

Review wrote:
I'm very much afraid that Obi is about to do something truly stupid as “repentance” for having allowed Shirayuki to be kidnapped in the first place. He wouldn't do that, would he?

I'd be more worried about Zen's feelings of guilt than Obi's. Obi already received Zen's forgiveness, and a smile or hug from SY is probably all it'll take for him to feel that they're cool (at least on the surface). Zen is the one who takes that whole "responsibility of nobility" thing way too far/too personally.

@Gina - I've mentioned it back in S1, but I still hold to my pet theory that Obi is a worldweary fae prince on walkabout Smile I mean what's up with those eyes?!

This lies somewhere between spoilers and speculation, but Obi goes through a few critical junctions where IMO he clearly is deciding between leaving our happy band, or firmly putting his loner past behind him. Most really wouldn't make sense out of chronological context, but one that I'm thinking of could be cleverly stitched into the current arc to make a neat capstone for anime!Obi's character development.

If they could work in that, Kiki's origin story, and the aforementioned Dance Party Ending to the kidnapping arc, then S2 will get full marks from me Smile
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:13 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
On the other hand, we get to see Zen, Obi, and just about everyone else bring the pain to the Claws of the Sea in a short but impressive battle

I'm not sure we watched the same battle. I didn't actually see a battle. I saw a couple of scenes from a battle, and a few pans of combatants with speedlines to simulate a battle, but almost no actual fighting. For the most part they just set up all the fight scenes, then cut off to non-action while they were going on, then came back when it was all over. Really took the wind out of their sails, if you'll excuse the seafaring metaphor.

I was hoping to see a really good fight with Obi and Snakelady, and then that got shelved, so then I was hoping for a really good fight between Zen and Snakelady, and that didn't really happen either, nor even Kiki vs the pirates. There wasn't anyone else in Umihebi's crew that we knew well enough to care about watching them fight, so I almost felt bad for her with everyone lining up to fight her. The brief fight between Obi and Itoya a couple episodes back was much more exciting than anything in this episode.

They even did the same thing with Raj's apparently inspirational speech. Rather than bother to write anything impressive for him to say, we're instead treated to Sailor A and Sailor B gabbing about how impressed they were. I was not, since I wasn't given a chance to be.

And why in the world would Umihebi deliberately cut the face of a beauty she hoped to sell?? Didn't she herself specifically limit any damage to her to "below the neck"? So I thought, ok that must be so Zen can go all crazypants over them putting so much as a scratch his beloved's face...and he barely notices it. So there wasn't even a good narrative reason for it.

The whole episode was strangely anti-climactic somehow. It had all the right pieces, but they just didn't come together in any truly engaging way for me. Nice cliffhanger though, if not entirely unexpected.


Last edited by Gina Szanboti on Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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