Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Rokka: Braves of the Six Flowers
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings
Posts: 1008 |
|
|||
I'm pretty sure that's not actually a requirement for being chosen as one of the Braves, that's just tradition. This is an extremely trivial spoiler from the second book, but I'll be considerate and put it in tags anyway. spoiler[There are two prerequisites for being chosen as a Brave. 1. Having the strength to fight the Demon God. 2. Having the desire to defeat the Demon God. Nothing else matters. Background, personality, nothing. Hence why people like Hans and Chamot can be chosen (provided they aren't the fake, of course).] |
||||
|
||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||
|
^
Oh, so it's just tradition. Thanks for clearing that up. |
||||
|
||||
|
Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11352 |
|
|||
|
Both Fremie and Hans are in that boat, which is why everyone is so shocked that they were chosen. In the past they've apparently all been such Heroes as Adlet described.
Btw, when they find the 7th, if Lauren is the 8th, what are they going to do about raising the barrier again behind them? Can they raise it again since Nacho broke the tablet you're supposed to put your hand on? Will they have to leave someone behind and go on with 5? |
||||
|
||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||
|
I don't think there is an eighth. So I don't think Lauren is involved. If he is, it will only feel like an arsepull.
The answer to a mystery shouldn't be any more complicated than it needs to be. |
||||
|
||||
ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||
|
I'm late to the party here. I haven't really gotten that into this show until the last few episodes. It's really getting good though now.
Anyway, I'm going to be pretty disappointed if it turns out to be Maura. In my view, Maura has actually been by far the most likely to be the culprit thus far simply by virtue of being the least immediately suspicious. She's so obviously "the one you'd least expect" that she seems the top candidate for the twist culprit. And if that's all the show has in stock, it will be a let down. The rest are much more interesting by virtue of being suspicious. Flamie is half demon and indeed used to serve the enemy. Hans is a sneaky, unscrupulous assassin. Chamot is a violent, detached sociopath. Goldov clearly has some serious unresolved feelings towards Nachetanya who herself clearly has a lot more going on beneath her superficially kind and bubbly personality. This is actually been a big strength of the show. On their own, any of these people would probably fall into the category of "too suspicious to be the culprit". But since they're all like that, these factors actually do work as intended and make them all seem like they actually could be the seventh instead. If it is one of those five, I genuinely have no idea which one it would be at this point. They've all got potential reasons that aren't gonna just feel like contrived twists for the sake of having a twist. On a related note, I don't take it at all for granted that Hans is clear at this point. True, he could have killed Adlet. But as CrowLia already mentioned, right now Adlet is a convenient scapegoat for the seventh. As soon as he dies and the barrier doesn't go down though, suddenly the hunt is on again. And you've gotta think one of the first accused will be the one who wrongly accused Adlet. So better he stay alive and prolong their situation. Sooner or later somebody is going to take him out anyway given the way things stand. There's really no advantage to speeding up the process. There's another angle too though. Alternatively, Hans also serves to benefit from proving Adlet's innocence instead and thus creating an ally. I mean, he could kill off one of the braves right now by just letting things play out with Adlet. But he may just be running the long con. By holding off he positions himself (by virtue of Adlet's vouching for him) as one of the two people beyond suspicion. That puts him in a great position to play the other five against each other one by one. In all likelihood he could knock of a couple people before anyone finally started to suspect him. And hell, he already knows that he can take Adlet and has seen his deadliest trick. Flamie is also an interesting case. I don't make too much out of her not killing Adlet earlier. If the plan all along was to trap them all in the barrier and then play them against each other in pursuit of a traitor, then there's actually an advantage to keeping all seven alive until then just so there's no doubt that there is indeed a traitor. And getting Adlet on her side certainly can't hurt. Still, I kinda doubt that she's the one unless maybe there are two traitors. Even with Adlet on her side, she would have been the first one dead if Hans hadn't stepped in to shift the blame to Adlet. Plus she has an actual good character explanation for why she turned against the monsters. Obviously that could just be made up but from an external writing perspective that just seems unlikely. Still, I wouldn't exactly write her off. And you can make a more or less equally strong case against it being Hans (if you disregard what I've said above) and Nachetanya and Goldov (since they've apparently got an alibi) and Chamot (since she simply seems far too dumb to be anything more than what she seems). Sadly that may just leave Maura which will be disappointing. This is why I'm holding out for Nachetanya or Goldov if not Hans. |
||||
|
||||
trilaan
 Posts: 1054 Location: Texas |
|
|||
|
Battle of the Gastro-Intestinal Dimensions!
Chamot vs Guu! |
||||
|
||||
HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
|
|||
Could be a red herring. Adlet was pretty much grasping at straws. Also introduces the idea that the 7th might not be the one that activated the barrier. Which is to say, what if the person who activated the barrier was actually one of the braves? If it goes that direction, it would generally be considered good writing to have somehow hinted at this. The main way I see this working is Nachetanya being the 7th. Remember that she was involved in a civil war and spared execution only because she turned out to be one of the Six. She might not even know she's the 7th if someone else did it to her. Either way, if she's the 7th, I think she didn't activate the barrier or had some reason in the best interest of the Six to do so. I really doubt she's actually a villain, though that would be an interesting twist. Maura is the only other one I see being particularly likely to be the 7th and/or activate the barrier, especially for a nefarious purpose. Much of the stuff people "know" about the barrier is based on assuming she's giving true and accurate information. For someone seemingly rational about the situation, she jumped really quickly to assuming Adket was guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt and is oddly insistent that Flamie kill him. Now, I can potentially see other explanations for these, but she seems the most plausible villain at this point. Also, Flamie's immediate abandonment has some possible implications. In particular, this would seem fairly reasonable if the fiends had at least one other plan in action, especially if that one seemed to be going smoothly. Such as if another brave was now working for them somehow. Particularly one in Maura's apparent position of power. I'll probably be mad if it goes "it really was Hans after all", as I don't see how the show could do it without feeling cheap. Goldov's issues with Nash seem like something for the show to deal with in the future rather and has otherwise done too little with him fir him being the 7th to have an impact as a reveal. I can sure see the motive though: to be with Nashetanya. Charmot... would be more plausible and less disappointing than the others but just doesnt seem as likely as Nash and Maura. However, I can easily see her being used as part of the plan to destroy the group. |
||||
|
||||
stilldemented
 Posts: 232 |
|
|||
|
Thoughts on Episode 9.
Assuming Adlet is right about the barrier not being activated when he initially thought, then Adlet, Nache, and Goldov (?) might have all had a hand in accidentally or purposefully activating the barrier. I don't think Hans, Maura, Flamie, or Chamot ever fiddled with the sword dias. Can't actually remember if Goldov did anything or not. The show tried to throw blame back on Hans as a possible suspect, but I didn't buy into any of it. It makes sense from Nache's pov but I think we as viewers have seen more than enough of his character to get a good handle on him not being the 7th. I'm still on the boat of Maura not actually being the 7th for reasons previously stated below. animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=4607294&highlight=#4607294 I think the show added another reason why she's not the 7th this episode though. This barrier is annoying her. She wants out. This also explains her single-mindedness in pursuing Adlet. Like I have said, this case was closed a long time ago for Maura, and now Adlet has them running around in circles in spite of the fact that he proved himself guilty the moment he took Flamie hostage from Maura's POV. Nasche had another dirty moment for me this episode. She's had them consistently throughout the show to where you can't help but question everything she says/does. She tells Goldov to check and see if the braves are still alive which he confirms. She then tells Adlet to keep working hard to survive and she'll keep working hard as well... to do what exactly? She hasn't done anything all that helpful since they all got trapped in the barrier. If you divide the show up by who has tried to be helpful and who hasn't been at all, in any way, whatsoever it looks like this... Helpful: Adlet, Hans, Maura, Flamie Unhelpful: Chamot, Nasche, Goldov However for Chamot and Goldov we have clear character reasons as to why they've been of little use to the situation. Chamot is a brat. Goldov is blinded by jealousy. Nasche is just along for the ride. Whenever the Braves were all trying to understand their predicament, she offered little contribution to the discussion. She's taken zero initiative. Even Goldov, at least, attacked Adlet when it started looking like he was the bad guy. For the wrong reasons mind you, but he at least did something. I think we're supposed to believe that she's overwhelmed by all of this, but she has turned that on and off as she sees fit since as early as episode 2 when she relied on Adlet to dispose of most of the monsters when she could barely handle one, and then kills several of the beasts on her own when Adlet rushes off to save Flamie and before Goldov arrives. Then starts relying on Goldov and having trouble fighting again. Remember she was the arena champion back in her hometown. Girl knows how to fight so why she keep acting like she doesn't? The more I think about it the more convinced I become that it's Nasche. Someone else said that from a writing standpoint she would be the most interesting character to be the fake when looking at it from a narrative standpoint and I think that holds true. Like that user said, It would make Goldov's character a lot more interesting moving forward because this isolated incident within the barrier is a part of a bigger story to destroy the demon lord. Wolf in sheep's clothing. Character design=bunny Who would suspect the cute, little bunny? 
But here's where that bit of logic shatters like glass for me. If she's the fake then why would she have Goldov check the mark to see if Adlet was still alive? If she was the fake then none of the marks would disappear from her fake crest, right? So why ask someone to check it? The thing is, there are a lot of questions I have about Nachetanya and not very many episodes left to answer anything. Next episode will probably be Maura vs. Adlet since the show has been heading that way since last episode. I think we're starting to close in on the end game. It's either Nasche or Maura. It's just a matter of where you hang your hat at this point. Goldov is still there as the upset, but he's just had very little development overall. Maura hasn't been a lot better in that regard, but she isn't a complete brick unlike Goldov. I can at least make some guesses about her. Can't read anything about Goldov other than he be jelly. 
|
||||
|
||||
|
kotomikun
Posts: 1205 |
|
|||
She's probably just annoyed that none of the braves have managed to kill any of the others yet. I had no idea who the traitor was for a while other than a vague "Adlet because that would be weird and interesting" but episode 8 convinced me it had to be Maura. Now that we know Chamot's ability, she's now the only character whose powers remain a total mystery. More to the point, Maura seems pretty intelligent, yet she left Chamot the immature murderous sociopath on her own in a confusing, tedious situation. Maura must have known that leaving Chamot alone was a recipe for disaster. She likely did so on purpose in hopes that Chamot would finally get the murder train rolling. Maura is both the least and the most suspicious. She acts like she has nothing to hide, but in the process puts herself in charge of the whole game from the start. She didn't seem caught off guard by the fog trap nearly as much as anyone else (Chamot was barely paying attention, and Hans acted nonchalant and unpredictable because he didn't trust anyone yet). She also doesn't personally suspect anyone in particular, she just subtly encourages everyone to gang up on whoever the current suspect is (first it was Flamie for obvious reasons, but she switched gears to Adlet when Hans made his case), to keep people from blaming her after they kill the target and nothing happens. If Nasch is just pretending to be lost and clueless and panicking, she's doing it a little too well. Much of her uncertainty and unwillingness to take sides ends up being suspicious, rather than making her seem like she's too incompetent to be the double-agent. She only escapes suspicion because of some sort of chivalry. Maura has made no one suspect her by taking charge and actively directing the others to kill each other, plus she brought a serial killer along to help out. |
||||
|
||||
|
stilldemented
Posts: 232 |
|
|||
I will admit that it never crossed my mind that Maura could be using Chamot's attitude to suit her needs. That's interesting actually. Still though this bolded line doesn't really bother me. As I've stated in previous rants, Adlet should be going after Maura or Goldov soon. He doesn't suspect Hans/Chamot/Flamie/Nasche. Since Maura is coming for him they're going to bump heads real soon. We keep saying that Maura is the least suspicious so that must make her the most suspicious...Why? Doesn't that bother anyone? Every time I watch this show I get the feeling that the story wants everyone to believe it is Maura, and I nearly know it has to be doing that so that it kicks my feet out from under me. It happens almost every time. While it is true that Maura has made none of the braves (other than Flamie who trusts no one) suspect her, the show itself has pointed her out to viewers at home as the #1 suspect for a while now. Deductive reasoning based on what we know as indisputable fact leads the viewer into focusing on Maura as I've pointed out in previous comments. All I gotta say is I keep seeing a good ol' slice of red herring cake and it tastes like lies!
On another note, I think Hans just sunk that Adlet/Flamie ship. Flamie seems to have a lot of issues. That whole relationship is kind of interesting as Adlet and Flamie come from similar circumstances but adopted different philosophies. Adlet believes in the metaphorical light at the end of the tunnel, but Flamie sees no salvation in chasing such a fantasy. Adlet represents hope whereas Flamie spits on it. So on and so on. |
||||
|
||||
maxwell3094
 Posts: 148 |
|
|||
She was spared and returned from exile because she was chosen as a saint. So it took place before becoming a brave. Can't remember if it actually says how long of a gap there was between that and when she became a brave.
I see quite a lot of people always mentioning the crests. Obviously I won't spoil anything but keep in mind we don't know how the fake crest works. After all I somehow doubt its as simple as having just been painted on. If a brave dies will the fake crest change to show it? For that matter maybe the 7th could just manually change the crest to match? Who knows! All we know about the crests so far is that if a brave dies a petal will disappear from the other crests. Whether or not that also applies to the fake crest is still unknown. Likewise if a brave dies and no ones crest changes we know they were the 7th but if a brave dies and the crests do change we still can't rule out them being the 7th because we simply don't know how the fake crest works. |
||||
|
||||
CrowLia
 Posts: 5504 Location: Mexico |
|
|||
|
I basically agree that, at this point, it's gotta be Nachetanya or Maura. The show seems to agree too, if you pay attention to the framing, we had three characters taking the most active roles in the discussion: Maura trying to convince Hans that Adlet is the 7th, Nach convincing Goldov that Hans is the 7th and Adlet trying to prove his innocence to Flamie. The other four were acting as passive recipients of these attempts for persuasion. Hans tried to argue back, and that along with his shocked/borderline sad expression when Maura told him he was being fooled cements my belief that he's a real Brave, regardless of how the show tried to bring him back as a suspect.
Nachetanya wasn't giving me any suspicious vibes this episode other than her insistence in trying to put the blame on Hans, but her expression when she asked Goldov to look at her crest was very creepy and unsettling. I definitely think she'd be the most interesting, as far as a writing choice, to be made the 7th, and I personally want her to be so because I really dislike her. Although I agree Maura's insistence on killing Adlet asap could be derived from simple frustration, I think the level of tunnel-vision displayed here was exaggerated, considering that she's supposed to be very mature and level-headed. That she's not even willing to consider that maybe Hans made a correct judgment of Adlet makes her very suspicious. Her argument about Adlet not killing Hans or Chamot when he had the chance just so he could continue to fool them holds some validity, but, if we think about it twice, the whole point of the 7th's plan is to make the real Braves kill each other, right? But if the 7th is allied with the Demon Lord, it would come to reason that, given the opportunity, they should kill as many real braves as they can with their own hands. Adlet could've offed Chamot, who is the strongest and more threatening of the braves, had the perfect chance to do it and tip the scales in the Demon Lord's favor with one strike. He's also had chances to kill Hans, Nash and Flammie and never took any. If Adlet were the 7th, he could've already killed 4 braves by now, which would be a lot more efficient than waiting for them to kill each other, a plan that so far has caused exactly zero casualties. Basically, there is a lot that supports Adlet's innocence, that Maura is so deaf to any reasons makes her look way too eager to get someone killed. The one thing that makes me hesitate about Maura's guilt is that, like Adlet, she's had chances to kill other braves. She's had alone time with Flammie and Hans, and also has Chamot wrapped around her little finger. And unlike Adlet, she's actually quite strong -we can assume-, so even if the other braves don't kill each other, she could off them one by one without much hardships, even convince Chamot to do the dirty work -we already see Chamot would be more than willing to do it- so why hasn't she? Sure, stalling the braves and making them doubt one another is good, but if you can so easily eradicate the only group of people who could oppose the Demon Lord, why hasn't she done it yet? Nachetanya, on the other hand, hasn't had any of these chances. With the exception of Adlet (my theory is that, even if she's the 7th, her attraction/interest in him is genuine, which is why she's trying so hard to clear his name and make someone else take the fall) and Goldov, who I believe she considers a gullible puppet and a useful asset, much like Chamot would be for Maura if she were the 7th, she hasn't been alone with any of the other braves, and thus, hasn't had the chances to kill them. TL;DR Nachetanya or Maura Pushing the speculation about the 7th aside, I was very disappointed by Chamot. She's hyped as super strong, but it felt like she was defeated very easily. Her swamp fiends didn't look threatening at all, it doesn't seem like they achieved anything on Adlet or Hans other than getting them covered in slime. Felt like the hype was for nothing. |
||||
|
||||
|
Tenebrae
Posts: 486 |
|
|||
|
If Adlet's theory is right... there is only one obvious suspect, if one goes and watches episode 4 again: the bunny girl. Nachetanya even says it out loud, likely as part of the activation ritual: "I will be the mistress of the barrier."
Now all we need is her motive. |
||||
|
||||
|
ThatGuyWhoLikesThings
Posts: 1008 |
|
|||
The problem in this case isn't that the power is weak or anything, just that the person behind it is severely lacking in both maturity and intelligence, and has a real superiority complex to boot. I'm sure being constantly praised by everyone around her as The Strongest In the World™ has convinced her that she's completely invincible and has no need for tactics or to have preparations ready against any countermeasures one might have for her friends. Just brute-forcing her way through enemies would be enough for weaker fighters and lower fiends, but against much more capable and smarter warriors like Hans and Adlet (to say nothing of the fact that they were working together really well), she'd really need to think about how to take them down. But Chamot's the strongest so who cares about that, just bumrush everything.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Luke0603
Posts: 2 |
|
|||
Thank you! Finaly someone pointed this out; I thought I was the only one who noticed her weird behaviour; I would also like to add that she also smashed and broke the writing on the alatar something I immediately found to be highly suspicious, as if she were covering her tracks or if the action had some ulterior motive; she was the only one who actualy did something to the altar and whose words seemed too much like an activation spell; the instant I saw her do this I thought something was weird because she was suposed to be a naive, clueless character who had no prior knowledge about how the barrier worked, not more than the other characters at least; at first glance her actions at the altar just seemed like she was simply throwing a tantrum but the words were simply too specific and exact; as far as I've seen no other character has said anything besides information about themselves close to the altar except Nachetanya; I would also like to add that it is not in the 7th interest to be the one that kills Adlet (assuming he is a genuine Hero), since then the crest would change and will show that a real hero has been killed so the others would immediately turn against the killer and most likely kill them as well; so if the seventh plays their cards well they can at the very least get rid of two heros instead of two; and even if the second hero isn't killed simply being suspected by everyone doesn't seem as productive as creating further distrust between the rest of the heros; anyway this show needs to get another 2 seasons or 1 season of 24 episodes because there is a lot more story to tell; they haven't even entered the Demon King's teritory let alone defeat him; and I love how this show makes you watch carefully every phrase spoken and every action that is being done and just simply makes you think; there aren't may show like this one these days; |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group