Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Are Adapted Dubs Still Being Made?
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CandisWhite
Posts: 282 |
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Approval can be as much as not giving an expletive about how the product is presented as long as it makes money. Put the shoe on the other foot: Disney is majorly controlling of its brand and has its strict fingers in the foreign pies but other companies could give a rat's ass about how the product is cut up or mangled [censoring drinking or dress (sometimes something as simple as bare shoulders) for Muslim countries, adding scenes for Chinese releases] since it still will make a profit. I don't like it for artistic reasons, or moral ones either, but that's what it boils down to: Japanese artistic integrity depends entirely on who has control and what they care about. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 5920 |
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Worst possible scenario with the most likely outcome.
I wouldn't though since most kids in this country aren't home schooled, do have friends and.......well they get access to the internet one way or the other |
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Actar
Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
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What is this guy even going on about? He seems to have it all figured out but talks in such a condescending and pretentious manner, as if dubbing or adapting is doing us a big favor for our own personal development. No, it is not. Is he actually saying that enjoying the work through subtitles gives us empowerment because we can't appreciate them fully enough and it therefore affords us the ability to create our own images of the characters in our heads? ...and that the adapting and dubbing process gives them "realness"? Where is the proof? Why do subtitles afford us with less information than the dub? His argumentation of Japanese being a "high-context" language fails when you consider the fact that subtitles will also account for the gaps in information during the translation process. Not to mention, he himself states that tone plays no part in it. Speaking of "good" characters, whether or not a character is there to challenge, to provide social commentary, to provide comedy or to provide fan-service should not be a concern of his. He's just there to adapt. Not to mention, all relationships with fictional characters are one-sided. That is the nature of fiction. He talks about the "universality of the material" but fails to address the specifics of it at all. For one, I consider the cultural material to be part of the original material as well, so let's not pretend that it can be separated completely. Where does he draw the line then, of what is culture and what is universal? Does Japan then need to be adapted into America? After all, it hardly affects the story, right? But what about a shrine? Hm... Can't have those in America. Not sure if people will be able to relate to Japanese names too... I am hardly convinced by his piece at all. Not to mention, many assumptions were made. For instance, the fact that the writers themselves have a perfect understanding of what the characters should be. Don't they realize that, in the end, their interpretation is just another interpretation? Everything starts to make sense when you realize that he's coming from a position where he has to defend his own job. Dubs are great so keep buying our releases.
This is the most ironic statement of the century. Has he even read his own writing?
Has it been conclusively proven that kids will all shirk away from anything non-American? Last edited by Actar on Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:13 am; edited 2 times in total |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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If those "Proudly Made in the USA" stickers are anything to come by, there are indeed plenty of American parents hesitant to buy anything of foreign origin (except cars, video games, and TVs).
In North America, the Pokémon anime came first, and then the video games. It created the idea from people not into the franchise, that still hasn't gone away, that the video games are adaptations of the anime rather than the other way around. So I would say that it IS the anime that allowed the franchise to take off in English.
Yeah, I was pointing out an exception that should theoretically be valid, and I'm thinking of characters with Osaka accents that get adapted to a deep south accent because both regions have similar stereotypes. Similarly, I'd say that if a work is full of punny names, it'd be reasonable to change the names to puns in the language being translated into, as I'm an advocate of translation by spirit. My own works of fiction are full of punny names, and if they somehow got popular enough to be translated into a different language, I would encourage those translators to change my characters' names to preserve the wordplay element. |
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Lili-Hime
Posts: 569 |
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Yeah I think we can agree here. It sounds like what happened was after the original licensing deals expired from the 90's and early 2000's, Naoko took over and began to rule with an iron fist. I guess my point originally was pre 2003 it sounded more like Toei's decision to not release Stars. I do remember reading that Naoko hated Stars because of the confusion it caused. I.E. in the manga the Starlights were women that crossdressed as guys, vs. in the anime they used magic or w/e to actually change into guys. IIRC Naoko was adamant that only women could be Senshi. Weird change. Just speculation but I think Toei began to cow tow to her more in order to get approval for new stuff (Live Action, Crystal, more musicals). What is really weird is as you point out Episode 67 was missing on the R set, but the original set had all the episodes that were missing from the DiC dub (like 45&46 being a two parter instead of 1 episode). Confusing!
I agree; especially if the English translation is correcting Japan's butchering of an English pun or reference >.> Case in point: there's a game called GrimGrimoire. The MC is named Lillet Blan, in reference to the wine (all GG characters are named after alchohols). The Japanese version had her named Lilit Blaw lol. Kinda reminds me of the Gundam thing insisting Frau should be Frow. Or Anno insisting on calling Eva pilots children (plural). I.E. Shinji was the third children. lmao |
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NJ_
Posts: 3009 Location: Wallington, NJ |
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Then why bring it up as a "untouched" dub in the first place? The Teknoman dub had changes as well, one being music because it was Saban, the other being names and the third was one of the characters being changed to a woman because he was a gay cross-dresser in the original. There was also 2 versions of this dub, the US version on UPN Kids which lasted 26 episodes before getting cancelled and the international version which aired in the UK and Australia & lasted the entire run with 43 episodes (with 6 episodes getting cut, 4 of which were recaps) and it was the latter dub that Media Blasters released, along with subbed Tekkaman Blade, back when they had the DVD license. |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
Subscriber
Posts: 3017 |
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I remember seeing a few episodes of this at a con about a decade ago, and the general consensus of the room was that it was "much better than the last time a Tekkaman show came to America"... but like I said, that's about the only thing I manage to recall. I stand corrected. I just watched the clip you linked to, and good lord, how bad must previous Tekkaman dubs have been in order for people to consider this an improvement? |
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NJ_
Posts: 3009 Location: Wallington, NJ |
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Sounds like they were comparing it with the William Winckler dub of the original Tekkaman. Not sure if anything was cut or changed there but I do know that it was cancelled after 13 episodes and had very cheesy voice acting. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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That reminds me: There was a similar change to Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, where the character Vivian was changed from an extremely effeminate male to a female when localized over, and there wasn't any uproar that I could recall. Either times have changed, or anime fans are a lot more sensitive to this sort of thing than Mario fans. |
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Lili-Hime
Posts: 569 |
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@ Leafy Sea Dragon
I still can't see Zoicite as male... damn DiC dub lol |
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ninjamitsuki
Posts: 590 Location: Anywhere (Thanks, technology) |
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Didn't Saban do Digimon? Who's to say Glitter Force will even be that bad? Maybe the characters will still be Japanese and have easier to pronounce nicknames, and the violence would be kept intact... Probably a lot of terrible puns, though.
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Kadmos1
Posts: 13555 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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Yes, Saban and Disney have both owned Digimon. Heck, perhaps outside of Power Rangers, Digimon was Saban's biggest success. If they could have kept the Digimon Fusion going by streaming it on Hulu or YouTube, then maybe there could have been less censorship. |
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louis6578
Posts: 1861 |
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Speaking of companies being hesitant to simply release uncut dubs of shows that were butchered... what about dubs from the 90's that were clearly awful and need a redub that never seem to get one upon re-release?
Lain and Escaflowne I can get behind, because I admit that they were just sort of the norm for the time, but what about Revolutionary Girl Utena and Cardcaptor Sakura? When those were re-released, the awful dubs stayed in tact with no option to switch to a better English version. It's not as though Utena is super underground or anything. Was Bang Zoom unwilling? |
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EricJ2
Posts: 4016 |
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I preferred Zoicite as a female in the DiC dub--Made "her" seem more like the usual more ruthless token female member who's scheming to break the glass ceiling on her own, for obsessive love of the main villain. (Like Harley Quinn, Mystique, or the crazy girl on Death Note.) |
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Ali07
Posts: 3333 Location: Victoria, Australia |
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Of course you going with the worst possible scenario will give you the outcome you'd want. A reasonable/more realistic scenario wouldn't lead to the exact outcome you're after, and wouldn't back up your argument as strongly. What other reason would you have gone for the worst possible scenario for? I'm still waiting for how "true to the source dubs" will save these hypothetical children that have found themselves in the worst possible scenario you can think of. |
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