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Iron Chef wrote:

Intetsu wrote:

If the only person being hurt is the audience- then the audience needs to turn it off. If you are a parent- you need to turn it off if you don't want your kid to see it.

This might be the single most intelligent comment on personal responsibility I've ever read. As a country, we're quick to blame SOMEbody after something tragic (really tragic, or imagined to be so) happens to ourselves, our kids or our relatives when in most cases an ounce of "turn it off" would have prevented a pound of legal filings.

Sideways tangent to the recent ban on trans-fats at all restaurants in NYC (and a similar ban on foie gras in Chicago) based on health reasons. The folks supporting the ban are saying that they're tired of the crapola coming out of the deep fryers, and how dare these restaurants try to do this to us? If you're worried about your health, you probably ought not be looking towards the Batter-Dipped & Golden Brown section of the menu. There are always lovely salads made with different and better-for-you oils, so go eat them instead, yeah?

Same thing applies here. If you're worried about violence and/or sex, you should probably steer clear of anime. They're staples of the genre and you WILL run across them at some point. Knowing this going in, why the heck would you complain about it afterwards? There are those of us out here who know the risks and are willing to take them, and we have no problem turning it off if and when it gets to be too much.

WHAT!!!! Be responsible for the choices that I make?!?!? How DARE you suggest such a thing! Why on Earth should I take personal responsibility for anything I do, that's not my job! That's the Gov-ments job! The Gov-ment is supposed to wipe my nose and clean my bottom from the day I was born to the day I die! So take your personal responsibility and shove it!

Nothing personal you understand? Wink

Iron Chef wrote:

Intetsu wrote:

If the only person being hurt is the audience- then the audience needs to turn it off. If you are a parent- you need to turn it off if you don't want your kid to see it.

This might be the single most intelligent comment on personal responsibility I've ever read. As a country, we're quick to blame SOMEbody after something tragic (really tragic, or imagined to be so) happens to ourselves, our kids or our relatives when in most cases an ounce of "turn it off" would have prevented a pound of legal filings.

Amen to that. I'm a little embarassed that I didn't pick up that the rant was satire, but I didn't really read it through completely before posting. It was late and I had just come back from a party. :p

Quote:

Sideways tangent to the recent ban on trans-fats at all restaurants in NYC (and a similar ban on foie gras in Chicago) based on health reasons. (snip) If you're worried about your health, you probably ought not be looking towards the Batter-Dipped & Golden Brown section of the menu.

As a New Yorker, I have to say this isn't exactly a fair comparison. The chaotic nature of the NY cullinary scene makes it nearly impossible to avoid trans fat. I actually tried to do it this week -- it's impossible unless you only go to restaurants where you're friends with the chef -- and even THEN it's a gamble. It's exponentially harder than even being a vegan. (I liken it to banning asbestos. Had we known how bad it was for us, we never would have put it into common use in the first place.)

But overall, I agree with you. And just to get back on topic, I'll relate this to a funny story:
When I was 13 and just discovering anime at Blockbuster, I made the mistake of renting Genocyber. Now, I was pretty sheltered at this point (my parents wouldn't even let me see most R-rated movies) so the ultraviolence in that show was quite disturbing to me.

So, I wrote a nasty letter to John O'Donnell at CPM. I was angry not so much that it was released, but that it looked no different from the cover and rating information than any of the much more benign anime on the shelf. I wasn't very subtle. (He wrote me back with amused-but-polite sarcasm, and sent me a free Project A-ko poster.)

As luck would have it, I would later spend four years of my life under his employ (working on FAAAAR more offensive content), and I'm still friends with John and most of the CPM staff. Recently, he discovered this letter while going through some old files. HE ACTUALLY SAVED IT!

So of course, he scanned it and sent it to everybody and I was really really embarassed. But in retrospect, I think my ideas were in the right place. I wasn't upset because it was released, I was upset because I wasn't given enough information to make sensible viewing choices for myself.

If I was John, I probably would have sent me an UrotsukiDoji poster.

I think Blaise, HitokiriShadow et al (sorry to al, whoever he/she/it is) are right - When you've read through several paragraphs of what purports to be a rant solely about violence. it's easy to miss the significance of:

Quote:

Okay, so I'm not writing so much against violence but against this hypocrisy of complaining about excessive sex but neglecting to mention the violence. Society seems to have double standards when it comes to violence and sex. Yet, these often appear hand in hand.

The rant has a legitimate concern - why is grauitous sex unnecessary but gratuitous violence okay, whether the target audience are children or adults? However, the rant doesn't explore why this supposed double standard exists. My guess is that Mr. Li perceives the double standard operating more broadly in his society (Quote: "Violence has become such an accepted part of culture"), and I'd rather not try and second guess where this is and what the cause is.

As viewers we have the right to be concerned about sex and violence in what we, and those we are responsible for, watch. Yes, I agree it's up to the artist what they put in, but I'm allowed to respond to that content. If this is not the case then I stuggle to see the point of the public display of any work in any medium. However, I'm not convinced that any purpose is served by constantly linking sex and violence (I'd much rather my kids didn't think this way!), even if we shouldn't always isolate issues.

Now I'm off to watch Urotsukidoji, then simultaneously have sex with my girlfriend and punch children in the face. Very Happy

But its okay, because I'm an adult and can totally seperate the two urges any time I like! Maybe I'm linking sex and violence as social problems because of an over-indulgence in graphic anime/1980s action flicks/internet rape-porn. Perhaps the problem stems from anime studios trying to make products which appeal to several age groups, entwining youthful characters and mature content. Whatever, I demand answers (and eventual psychiatric care) from the gov-ment! Or the board. The board's good.

Iron Chef wrote:

Sideways tangent to the recent ban on trans-fats at all restaurants in NYC (and a similar ban on foie gras in Chicago) based on health reasons. The folks supporting the ban are saying that they're tired of the crapola coming out of the deep fryers, and how dare these restaurants try to do this to us? If you're worried about your health, you probably ought not be looking towards the Batter-Dipped & Golden Brown section of the menu. There are always lovely salads made with different and better-for-you oils, so go eat them instead, yeah?

Don't get me started on this. I'll be nice and summerize this in a few words: people choose to be obese. Sure, naturally people are all different, but when one weighs the same as a whale, they need to fix their health. Also, weight is a number, like an age; who cares about it?

Iron Chef wrote:

Same thing applies here. If you're worried about violence and/or sex, you should probably steer clear of anime. They're staples of the genre and you WILL run across them at some point.

I have seen anime without sex and violence. Hello Kitty and Mermaid Melody are examples.

Quote:

Case in point: We're used to seeing images on the news of child predators (and unfortunately, sometime those who both abused and killed children) being hauled away to jail from their houses. How often is that image teamed with a news report stating that the person had child pornography on their computer? WAY too often. Unfortunately, awful things such as viewing abhorent images can be just a first step. While 99.9% of those who view violence, sex or something totally appalling at home won't go the next step, for some, these things will predicate a further need to satisfy corrupt desires. Our souls always want more than we have.

That's the difference, when I talked about the 'media' I asked did it hurt anybody? ALL CHild pornography is hurting someone- the kid. It's abhorrent to begin with.

There will always be those who prey on others, sadly.

I agree with what you said about changing the world- most people cannot break through, I won't say I have. Also, how you introduce things to your children is very important. I sure had parental controls. If my mother didn't want me to see something I never got to see it, period. She would even tell my friends parents. I did sneak some rare ones in.

I appriciate your critique and kind words. You have raised some interesting points as well. Moral judgements are some of the most important and most personal things that you can pass on to a child, the ability to make a decision.

Intetsu

Just like to tweak the rant, i agree with it but it should be targeted at media in general not just anime/manga. Let's face it violence sells. Look at the latest ep of family guy, that really disturbing scene when Stewie went mob boss on Brian, (i know that scene was disigned to do that, and yes i got the joke this is a side issue anyways) and that was on primetime (well in my area it was). Then there's movies like hostel and saw, this is a bigger problem (if you're running on the assumption that violence and sex in the media are problems, don't want to offend those snuff/porn film viewers:P) and anime/manga and just secondary signs of a larger problem.

As for the nudity vs violence that's purely a social Taboo, and a fairly irrational one at that (in my opinion, of course one can only express their own opinion). People just seem to be insecure about their own bodies, damned if i know why (maybe has something to do with being intimate vs impersonal to each other?). Maybe there should be a survey disturbuted through-out the parenting community asking which they'd rather divulge to their children first war or procreation? Now that'd tell us something about our species.

PS the taboo i choose to blame on the pope; denoucing condoms in Africa, does he have no shame, wait he thinks he's like the vioce of god or something doesn't he, damn i guess he doesn't then:P.

I certainly can't speak for all atheists, but I'm not sure i understand the logic behind thinking I would hate Trinity Blood and Chrono Crusade. Because they have religious imagery? Pfft. Who cares. It's not like they're using it correctly. If anything I'd probably be inclined to like them because they might tweak the nose of some Jerry Falwell style fundie.

But in reality, I didn't like either of them because I found both series fairly boring.

Speaking as an actual conservative Christian (a girl, a conservative AND Christian, on an ANIME board?! Quick, get a camera!), I can tell you that, yes, you'd be more likely to offend a Christian by Trinity Blood or Chrono Crusade than you could an athiest. A close friend of mine, who is also an athiest, LOVES Crono Crusade.

Although, if you REALLY want to offend a Christian, there's some select things you have to watch for in your anime:

1) VIOLENCE. The more blood, the better. Think fountains of blood here, maybe the occational organ being ripped out.

2) SEX. Obviously, the recent rants have already touched on this, but--panties are bad enough. Full-blown sex scenes? You'll send a Christian heading for the hills. Nudity fits under this, too--the younger the better with this one.

3) Christian symbolism--used badly. You can easily irk a lot of Christian viewers--anime fans or not--by tossing in biblical or Christian references. Particularly when these references are REALLY off the mark. (I'm starting to think the Japanese think our scriptures are in Dante's Inferno. Not that I dislike Inferno, it's just the impression I get.)

And...the biggy...

4) Shoujo-Ai/Shounen-Ai/Yaoi/Yuri. This, more than any other, will really get the Christian parent's blood boiling.

So, if you want to add this under the new Answerman feature (which I love, BTW), there's obviously only one anime to really irk the conservative Christian in your life:

Neon Genisis Evangelion.

(I should note that I'm being sarcastic and poking fun at myself about this. Anime hyper

I go to CAA [it's actually not that bad, guys, most of you obviously haven't been to the place], my parents are missionaries for goodness' sake...yet, I'm currently watching NGE thanks to Netflix. Another series I'm watching is Gankutsuou, and I'm also eagerly mowing through the manga AND anime for Death Note and DNAngel. I'm breaking pretty much nearly every rule I just listed, I just never watch really EXTREME examples.

...Well, except maybe NGE.)

Anyway, I really enjoyed this column. My Mom's already suggested for me to start working on a blog writing my own reviews while I'm in college--I should start looking into Freelancing as well. (Actually, I can't believe I didn't think of it before, considering my Mom's a freelance writer. o.o; )

mistress_reebi wrote:

Iron Chef wrote:

Same thing applies here. If you're worried about violence and/or sex, you should probably steer clear of anime. They're staples of the genre and you WILL run across them at some point.

I have seen anime without sex and violence. Hello Kitty and Mermaid Melody are examples.

As have I. But I'm sure that you've seen more anime with those two elements than without, and that was the point I was trying to make.

Okay, around a hundred posts, I pop out, so this is my space and my two peso's:

Anime development: you DON'T WANT TO MAKE THE CREATOR ANGRY, he have the right to stop production or make changes, depending the contract of the anime or how they are screwing the show, in limited cases, the mangaka limits the anime production or they discuss with him on pre-production on what they can or can't do, if the mangaka has control or not over the anime works is in "case by case basis" sometimes the creator doesn't renew the anime production for problems (Kare-kano, Weiss kreuz) Others work deals with their anime companies (Berserk, Grappler Baki) and finally we have those with megahits that got overpaid ridiculous ammounts of money and they don't care what direction the show is taking as long as they are watching the money coming to their accounts (Naruto, DBZ, rurouni kenshin, Hokuto no ken, one piece) and you can notice this because all these series, being the hits that they are and being there for a superb combination of master storytelling, thrilling action, interesting characters and
nice artwork, still are plagued by side story specials, fillers, movies that don't originally belong there, Ovas and sometimes stretched animation.

Why the creator of Kenshin and Naruto allow stupid episodes or dumb continuations that doesn't have nothing to do with the original story?

Because they got their millions in their pockets, they got paid so freaking well that it will be just stupid just to say no, after all, is a money business, nobody gives a crap about your creativity, after you or your show, another one will come out, But everyone wants to capture the magic of the original manga, even the director of Hajime no ippo went and practiced boxing with the mangaka so he could animate correctly the punchs and the feeling of the punch, also madhouse is borrowing a lot from MONSTER to create death note (C'mon is MONSTER 2) so as long as the mangaka is "bribed enough" he can only watch the show and voice his opinion from afar, nothing more

I was going to refrain from commenting, but I just can't help it.

Okay, I'm the writer of this week's rant. Sorry for the poor writing and confusion. Indeed, it was intended to raise your heckles by ranting about the violence, and then to turn around and say that I don't really support the non-violent or non-sexual point of view.

The rant wasn't intended as a direct response (or attack) at Charles, who wrote last week's rant. There have been a few cases in the past of rants about fan service and lolicon. If there was a rant about violence, I must have missed it. Sorry. But anyways, I decided it was a gap that should be filled, just to put the other earlier rants in perspective. I was um, inspired, to write by Charles' rant and thus I tried to follow his format of recommending certain anime, and highlighting the depiction of minors.

ArielTsuki wrote:

And as for the ranter this week, his argument was too vague in what it was trying to prove if lot of people got confused by it. Also, I think he confused slapstick violence with something else. In the children anime, rarely I see any senseless violence any more than American cartoons like Looney Tunes and the such.

Yeah, it's vague. Sorry. Gomenasai. Sad

But I do believe slapstick violence and fan service are on the same level in terms of entertainment value, (un)necessity to plot, and morality. Yet one is okay for kids and adults while the other isn't? Kids are violent and sexual on their own without the media, don't deny it. "Playing doctor" isn't just fantasy invented by pedophiles.

Culturally, we've accepted slapstick violence as caricatured, intentionally unrealistic, and, for the most part, harmless. Isn't fan service the same? I think I've have been blown up by Acme-brand dynamite about as many times as girls have shoved their underwear-clad bottoms in my face after falling on me (give or take some).

There has also been several mentions that not all anime glorifies violence and that some of the anime I've cited in fact do the opposite and show the negative impact of violence. I'd say the same is true in some ways for fan service and anime which objectify women. Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell comes to mind immediately. At least in the TV series, we get fan service in the form of sexy outfits or with her girlfriends. But she is an empowered woman, beautiful yet deadly. Men stupid enough for fall for her find out too late that it's their biggest mistake. There's probably more like this, maybe someone else can help me out here.

Censorship has been mentioned several times. Most of us here don't think the government should censor. Some say it's the parents' duty to filter what the children watch while others say it's the content producers. I think 0utf0xZer0 has the best point though, that the role of the parents aren't as censors, but as teachers and guides. They shouldn't force the morals on their children and shouldn't try to shield their children from every evil influence. Tell the children what the issues are about and let the children decide. Now the tricky part is figuring out when the children are capable of making decisions....

I'd have to disagree with you on the "there's anime with fanservice that use it to protest against it" angle you mentioned. GitS is a decent example--but I don't think there's very many others you could go with. Maybe an anime that dealt with a rape of a female character, and her journey past that, but I would hardly call that 'fanservice'. Sexual content, maybe, but not fanservice.

Plus, part of the problem is...Japan's not really a...stellar country for women's rights. I don't really consider myself a feminist, but there's a lot in Japanese culture concerning women that really irks me. I think fanservice in part stems from this, soo...it'd probably do more harm than good to try to use fanservice in a positive, woman's-right slant.

Also, I'd say "playing doctor" is a slightly more traumatic experience as a kid than getting pushed on a playground.

I understand where you were going with the over-all rant, but I think in general sexual content is more harmful to children. *shrug* IMHO.

Avatar of Justice wrote:

Blah, anime isn't the only one guilty of this sin. How many fantasy stories written by Americans involve some young kid fighting evil for the sake of the future? If a lot of anime was about someone murdering innocent people and being victorious, I'd have a problem. But if its a good person defeating evil people with violence, where's the issue? That seems to me that it would show young people that being a good person is cool and empowering. People like stories about good versus evil, and having a younger more naive protagonist allows one to convery a purer hero than an older more cynical character.

One example I an think of that fits this well is Animorphs. It is my favorite non manga book series. While at first glance it appears to be a standard sci-fi story about kids fighting evil aliens with the power given to them by a member of another alien species that is fighting them, this power allows them to turn into any animal they can touch. In truth there is MUCH more to it then that. The evil aliens, called the yeerks, are interesting in that they are paristies that invade the brains if sentient species, and completly control thier bodies, WHILE LEAVING THEIR MINDS INTACT, AND ARE FORCE TO WATCH WHILE THEY BETRAY EVERYONE THEY LOVE. The heroes all have thier own reasons to fight from Cassie the pacifist animal-lover who hates the idea of killing but realizes she has little choice in the matter as the result would be not only an enslavement more total then any ever known on earth, but also the spoiler[destruction of all of earths ecosystems because the yeerks remake conquered planets in the image of thier homeworld], to the joking, and initially reluctant Marco, who is reluctant to fight at first not because he is a cowrd but because when his mom died two years ago his dad fell apart and is only hanging on to life because he has to support his son. However Marco gains a reason to fight when spoiler[it is revealed that his mom didn't actually die but was enslaved by the yeerk who started the earth invasion, who faked her death in order to leave]. Add to this the fact that some people willingly bacome slaves of the yeerks, spoiler[some yeerks think that it is wrong to take unwilling hosts,] and that the charcers regularly face moral dillemmas that come with being in a war, including two dilemmas whose dicesion is left up to the imagination of the readers, and you have a compelling tale of action, drama, moral dilemas, with well placed and hillarious comedic relief and it makes for a great, if long, series.

On some other notes with the yhe fact that media is okay as long as no one gets hurt I am reminded of a line I first heard on Law & Order, "Your right to swing your fist ends where another man's nose begins."

Also the most compelling reason I have heard for explaining Christanity's aversion to sexuality dates back to it early days when it was persecuted by the Roman Empire. In the curroupt Roman Empire that mercilessly persecuted the Early Christans wanton sexuality was practiced. There are too many examples to even describe a small sample of them. As a result early Christans associated sexuality with moral corruptness, and unnessecary sexuala acts outside of marriage (i.e. sex not intended for procreation) was condemned, and celibacy was considered the ideal. The idea still stubbornally persists to this day. In contrast eastern sociteties, including Japan generally had more balanced outlook on sexuality, combining pleasure and spirtuallity.

Finally, if you really want to inflame them give the a copy of Angel Sanctuary, preferably the manga. Heroic devils, evil angels, an emotionless and tyrannical god, and a heroe, has has an incestuous relationship with his sister. there is PLENTY to get riled up about here, espcially if you can't see past the surface content to the TRUE messages.

animalia555 wrote:

Also the most compelling reason I have heard for explaining Christanity's aversion to sexuality dates back to it early days when it was persecuted by the Roman Empire. In the curroupt Roman Empire that mercilessly persecuted the Early Christans wanton sexuality was practiced. There are too many examples to even describe a small sample of them. As a result early Christans associated sexuality with moral corruptness, and unnessecary sexuala acts outside of marriage (i.e. sex not intended for procreation) was condemned, and celibacy was considered the ideal. The idea still stubbornally persists to this day. In contrast eastern sociteties, including Japan generally had more balanced outlook on sexuality, combining pleasure and spirtuallity.

Goes back even further than that. Remember the Old Testament tale of Sodom and Gomorrah? Look what happened there before God showed us he was a nuclear power in his own right. It's where the term "sodomy" is first coined.

MorwenLaicoriel wrote:

Speaking as an actual conservative Christian (a girl, a conservative AND Christian, on an ANIME board?! Quick, get a camera!), I can tell you that, yes, you'd be more likely to offend a Christian by Trinity Blood or Chrono Crusade than you could an athiest. A close friend of mine, who is also an athiest, LOVES Crono Crusade.

Although, if you REALLY want to offend a Christian, there's some select things you have to watch for in your anime:

1) VIOLENCE. The more blood, the better. Think fountains of blood here, maybe the occational organ being ripped out.

2) SEX. Obviously, the recent rants have already touched on this, but--panties are bad enough. Full-blown sex scenes? You'll send a Christian heading for the hills. Nudity fits under this, too--the younger the better with this one.

3) Christian symbolism--used badly. You can easily irk a lot of Christian viewers--anime fans or not--by tossing in biblical or Christian references. Particularly when these references are REALLY off the mark. (I'm starting to think the Japanese think our scriptures are in Dante's Inferno. Not that I dislike Inferno, it's just the impression I get.)

And...the biggy...

4) Shoujo-Ai/Shounen-Ai/Yaoi/Yuri. This, more than any other, will really get the Christian parent's blood boiling.

So, if you want to add this under the new Answerman feature (which I love, BTW), there's obviously only one anime to really irk the conservative Christian in your life:

Neon Genisis Evangelion.

(I should note that I'm being sarcastic and poking fun at myself about this. Anime hyper

I go to CAA [it's actually not that bad, guys, most of you obviously haven't been to the place], my parents are missionaries for goodness' sake...yet, I'm currently watching NGE thanks to Netflix. Another series I'm watching is Gankutsuou, and I'm also eagerly mowing through the manga AND anime for Death Note and DNAngel. I'm breaking pretty much nearly every rule I just listed, I just never watch really EXTREME examples.

...Well, except maybe NGE.)

Anyway, I really enjoyed this column. My Mom's already suggested for me to start working on a blog writing my own reviews while I'm in college--I should start looking into Freelancing as well. (Actually, I can't believe I didn't think of it before, considering my Mom's a freelance writer. o.o; )

I thought your name was familiar. I'm from the CAA too! Anyway, I was wondering, did 4Kids kill One Piece or was it doomed from the start?

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