Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash [2016-01-18]
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
One-Eye
 Posts: 2261 |
|
|||||
Pretty much this. It isn't just that Manato was trying to be a Leader, Tactician, Healer (Both body and spirit thru his older brother trope) and then more in combat. Its that everyone became complacent with him doing these things and maybe even complicit in his eventual destruction. Someone else needed to step up their game here or at least stop Manato from pushing himself so much. I might go further and say that he was a good healer with maybe the potential to be a great healer (the way the old cleric was talking), but maybe he wasn't that great at being a tactician and a leader. A better tactician who had been getting info about gobbies and where to hunt them might have planned better for future encounters or been aware that there were different types and that they could organize themselves. A better leader isn't just a kind self-sacrificing older brother figure either. Anyways it will be interesting to see how the crew reacts to this and if they realize their deficiencies.
What I'm concerned about is that it is 12 episodes long so far and I just don't want to be left on a cliffhanger at the end or worse yet just stop abruptly like some shows have done. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18179 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||||
As someone who's played tabletop RPGs since a relatively young age, I have to disagree with this. On numerous occasions I have seen the party's cleric (or in some cases paladin) safely pull aggro and still be able to heal pretty effectively; in fact, many of the more developed fantasy RPGs have some kind of class variation specific to being a front-line healer. The problem here is that Manato hadn't set himself up well for that; such individuals have to be heavily-armored and have defensive spells and/or tactics for that to work. Manato had neither. Hence I couldn't help but think of this as a classic example of what happens naturally when a poorly-designed character adventures in a weak party. Perhaps that's why Manato's death didn't emotionally resonate with me at all. Of course, how blatantly they telegraphed his death in the scenes leading up to that fight didn't help matters, and the increasingly irritating way that the series is dragging itself out may also be a factor; while I do like this approach in principle, there are just too many places where it lingers on scenes for too long. I agree with Rebecca's observations about how unsettling it is that these kids have now become inured with the killing. It's something that happens without thought all of the time in RPGs, so it's refreshing to not see that overlooked here. Same with her observations about the fan service; now that I think about it, they are regularly conspicuously showing off her legs and not just her butt. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
SilverTalon01
Posts: 2401 |
|
|||||
You don't sound like you have much experience carrying dead weight. Assuming everyone is equally capable, you're right that there would be no reason to step outside his optimal role. However, that is rarely the case. It very often falls on just one or two people in a party or a half dozen in a raid to carry (although the current trend is more to idiot proof things), and this likely means doing something sub-optimal for your class. Now sure, sometimes you will fail when you try to do something you aren't meant to, but that doesn't mean at all the chances would be better if you left it to a less capable person who just so happened to play a class suited for it. That is essentially what happened to Manato. He reached the limit he could carry, and they wiped. |
||||||
|
||||||
CrowLia
 Posts: 5504 Location: Mexico |
|
|||||
Agreed on both accounts. I would also add that Shihoru was starting to show a sort of attraction towards Manato, and since the main character has his eyes on Shihoru already (quite literally, by last week's no-underwear incident), then Manato, who stood in Haruhiro's way to get the girl and the leadership, had to die. It's rather uninspired as far as storytelling goes, I'd really hoped it wouldn't happen. The whole death scene was handled pretty poorly, since they raised so many bloody death flags there was just no tension at all. Especially since, as others have mentioned, there were many instances that seemed to point at Manato's eventual death. The whole thing felt like it could've been prevented, but it wasn't for the sake of drama However, being the sucker that I am for grief, I found the scene at the temple very beautiful and touching. I think that at least was well done, even if the song wasn't good enough to enhance the drama. The facial expressions of the characters when they realize Manato is gone and the water color stills were very heartbreaking to watch. I've found death scenes don't actually get to me half as much as seeing people grieving for their lost loved one, so those stills with Shihoru's loud crying did get me a little emotional. Basically the content itself was rather blah, standard LN power-fantasy fare, but the execution did have some highlights that elevated it a little, so it wasn't a total waste. As a sidenote, my tolerance for "casual" shots of Yume's ass and legs becomes lower and lower with every episode. Please stop |
||||||
|
||||||
DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15457 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
|
|||||
I unfortunately feel kind of this way, and have the thought that if it was meant to be so telegraphed, then there should have been something else offered. Maybe if there was more of a focus of being saved like he was by Haruhiro and how it still was not enough, I feel like that was what they were kind of going for. The church scene was a bit better, but I feel like that is disconnected from Manato himself as more owned by the characters like Haruhiro bringing up the cost of funeral at they would pay for it. Not sure if I can quite explain it, but I felt like their was more impact in Haruhiro desperately asking what he should do for Manato to help, rather than the fact Manato was dying. That from all the telegraphs he meant more as a loss to other characters than his own tragedy, that it did not quite resonate. Trying to come up with an idea of how it might have been improved, maybe it was if they made us think we would lose a different character. That another character was too reckless or too soft that they would be in danger, but it was Manato who was possibly covering for such weakness who was in trouble. |
||||||
|
||||||
Calsolum
 Posts: 898 |
|
|||||
|
I hate myself for this but in the middle of episode 4 after they nonchalantly killed the goblins and while Manato was listing everyones strengths i just randomly though geez this is boring why won't somebody die or something?
Then Haruhiro gives that "i thought we'd have more time" line i just thought "...oh f***. no no no no no... manato buddy its just a flesh wound right? you can walk it off right? right?!?" looking back on it there really was quite a bit of subtle(and not so subtle) clues that he'd die and the series needed someone to die since they got far to relaxed but I was just trying to enjoy the series rather than try to analyse it and it just hit me like a truck. Now if you'll excuse me im gonna go look for Ranpo kitan's "last days" insert song (what i would pay to get that record disk that Akechi plays whenever a 20 faces crime occurs) |
||||||
|
||||||
wolf10
 Posts: 901 |
|
|||||
|
I think TV in general (not just anime) has this twisted notion that showing characters coming to terms with death too quickly (or simply skipping the mourning process entirely using the convenience of an episode break) somehow shows them to be "strong" or "wise," but I really think it means that the writers don't understand death and loss nearly as well as they try to pretend.
Considering Manato's death last episode was more or less textbook, I'll admit I was more than a little worried about how they'd follow up on it. It looks like the fallout isn't going away any time soon, and it also looks like they'll be smarter from here on out so this hopefully won't turn into a regular thing either. This... was a pretty good episode. Off-model beyond belief any time there wasn't a female on screen (sigh), but the acting was still solid and at least the most important scene managed to look good. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
鏡
|
|
|||||
|
Well episode 5 has pretty much solidified this as aots for me. The way the first half made it painfully obvious that the boys' inability to deal with their own grief was destroying their ability to function, turning all of their bravado and yelling into a kind of sad and suffocating farce, combined with the really well-animated catharsis in the second half, made the consequences of Manato's death feel very real. The scene between Haruhiro and Yume was beautiful, and it's a testament to how well-directed it was that it never feels very romantic and instead just feels like a genuine moment of shared grief. I was kind of put-off at first because I thought it was turning into a misplaced confession of some kind, so that was a pleasant surprise.
I'm glad Haruhiro didn't just instantly become a leader, inspired by Manato's martyrdom and heroically taking up his mantle. It's cool how the protagonist is just as incompetent as all the other characters. Mary's interactions with Ranta are also fantastic; it's pretty amusing to see Mary's passive aggression result in a complete shift in the normal power dynamic between Ranta and his interlocutor (that is, Ranta getting angrier and crasser until the conversation ends). I really like the dialogue and character writing in this show in general, in the way it sometimes quietly introduces complexities into personalities. Shihoru got the short end of the writing stick this episode, but oh well. It makes sense that she would be dealing with Manato's death more privately than anyone else. |
||||||
Blanchimont
 Posts: 3445 Location: Finland |
|
|||||
Something seems a little out of place... |
||||||
|
||||||
Valhern
 Posts: 916 |
|
|||||
|
Great episode, probably my favorite so far. I loved the conversations in the tavern, most of the dialogue felt pretty real and the guys seemed like the group that would go and drink down their daily suffering because they suck and they don't know what to do with themselves, like Ranta saying he was going to quit, Moguzou pointing out that apparently they have no goal anymore, and Haruhiro is basically lost in thinking what Manato would do. By day they try and fail miserably, by night they weep with beer (or wine) in hand.
Of course, Haru and Yume's scene by the end was surprisingly good, although sometimes the subtitles made it too long-worded and the lines sounded a little forced, but still quite good. I hardly believe that the last part of Shihoru casually catching them (she seems to be curious about things herself, eh?) destroys the episode. At least I did laugh because it doesn't look like Haruhiro and Yume just sharing a romantic moment, it seemed as if she was...checking things downstairs. The quick constrast and Shihoru being the culprit made it slightly funny and allows us to revert to the common antics in the group instead of the awkward feeling in this episode. Oh yeah, Mary, I like her design, and the fact that she drives Ranta nuts is hilarious. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
FilthyCasual
Posts: 2185 |
|
|||||
Did you mean Haruhiro, Rebecca? And aside from the end gag (I wanted to like you most, Shihoru, but you've long since been eclipsed by Yume), the episode was strong. Here's to hoping that after the next presumably healing and teamwork episode that the plot picks up. |
||||||
|
||||||
stilldemented
 Posts: 232 |
|
|||||
|
Each new episode reaffirms my suspicions that this show is more of a character piece than anything plot-centric. At the very least, if there is a story worth telling...the anime will probably end before it begins.
I don't consider that a fault so long as the material is well-handled. This was Grimgar's best episode thus far in my opinion. I could totally relate to the scene as the guys more or less cut the girls off to go drown away their sorrows. Grieving in silence while trying to figure out the best way to move forward after the tragedy. I found it very true to life. Haru's heart is in the right place. He doesn't feel like he knows how to help the girls so he gives them their space. But, for the girls, that just seems cold. Oddly, the Shihoru bit there at the end didn't bother me. I feel it comes as a sort of relief. In spite of what the characters have gone through things are going to be cool between everyone. I'm amused by this Mary character. Her deadpan handling of Ranta was worth a chuckle. The cast say they have an issue with her, but it doesn't really come across as such yet. I feel like their biggest issue with her is that she's not Manato. Something I will say though is that this setting is beginning to feel underutilized. We're set in a fantasy world, but we don't really get much screen time dedicated to any fantastical engagements. Not really saying I want this to be action-oriented or anything of that sort. More so that I cannot help but wonder why this is the backdrop for the story we're being told. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11339 |
|
|||||
|
I was doing ok, until the beginning of the scene between Haru and Yume. It seems like all her inane dialog has been drawn from some stand-up comic's "girls, blah blah, am I right?" routine. And the framing and body positions were telegraphing a cliche kiss so hard it was difficult to get immersed in their emotions. Really awkward. But when Haru's voice breaks as he calls out Manato's name that last time, it was all over. I can't remember ever hearing that much grief poured into one word in any anime. Once I stopped sniveling I did feel some catharsis, but then the wrap scene ruined that mood. Oh well, Yume's probably never going to be my favorite character anyway. It's weird, because I was fully expecting Shirohu to be the one treated this way, but she's nearly gotten off scot free.
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
meiam
Posts: 3442 |
|
|||||
|
I thought it was pretty good too, and the last scene didn't bother me too much. Laughter is part of the grieving process, if you never been in a room full of people morning a dead friend you'd be surprised at how quickly people start laughing and making joke, even some that seems in hindsight incredibly incentive. So I think it work somewhat well as a transition, there getting past the point where everything is all about "somebody died" and other concerned start coming to surface.
I do find it annoying how Haru is simply handed the leadership role with no discussion, seems like both the tank and the archer are better fit. Both character wise but also gameplay wise (it's hard to effectively sneak when your barking order). Rather like Mary and Ranta together, make for a fun pair. Ranta was also a pretty good character this episode, when there not using him for fan service purpose he's a great character. Hopefully Mary will knock some sense into them, can't believe right after losing a priest they ask the replacement to tank something. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 2606 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
|
|||||
I actually meant for there to have been a "been" after "Manato."  But it probably would have worked better to just put in "Haruhiro" instead.
You're absolutely right, and had the scene been handled differently so that it relied more on the characters laughing as a cathartic release, I wouldn't have minded it. Although I never really thought of it as a chance for the viewers to stop mourning; from that perspective, it could work better. |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group