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REVIEW: Evangelion 3.33: You Can (Not) Redo Blu-Ray


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CoreSignal



Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Location: California, USA
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:09 am Reply with quote
One-Eye wrote:
I would like to see more development of the other characters, but I don't think it will happen unless the fourth is significantly longer or they decide to make a fifth movie.

I would be fine with either option. Since they're taking forever anyway, might as well have the fourth movie be a full two-hour (or longer) feature or just say they want to do a fifth movie now.
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FenixFiesta



Joined: 22 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:23 am Reply with quote
magnus4001 wrote:

Finally, despite the Shinji/Kaworu relationship getting more time here than in the TV series, for some reason, and I can't explain why, spoiler[Kaworu's death had no where near the same level of emotional weight behind it that it had in the show.] Did anyone else feel this or was it just me?

This is more than likely a case by case basis, yet at the same time it is effectively the same story from the original series given a lot more screen time.

The difference is that Kaworu is certainly made out to be much more self sacrificing in a literal sense in 3.0, the original series it is unquestionably Shinji being forced to kill Kaworu.

Original series Kaworu is ambiguous and is more than likely mimicking humanity as a means to an end, where Rebuild Kaworu is compassionate to a fault.
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brankoburcksen



Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:44 am Reply with quote
Baring some big, future epiphany, this is my last new thought worth sharing about 3.33 and the Rebuilds in general.

All three movies feel different. The first hits like a pretty standard 3 Act, sci-fi, coming-of-age tale. The second, a brighter, faster paced, action and plot driven extravaganza. The third, a somber, personal drama. Those are just the words I would use to describe them. However, without a doubt, the tone and overall impact of each movie comes across in its own unique way.

Based on that pattern, it is pretty fair to say, the fourth, and presumed final movie, will also carry a far deviating emotional through-line than the previous installments.
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kenrobinson1982



Joined: 22 Nov 2003
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:19 am Reply with quote
FenixFiesta wrote:
magnus4001 wrote:

Finally, despite the Shinji/Kaworu relationship getting more time here than in the TV series, for some reason, and I can't explain why, spoiler[Kaworu's death had no where near the same level of emotional weight behind it that it had in the show.] Did anyone else feel this or was it just me?

This is more than likely a case by case basis, yet at the same time it is effectively the same story from the original series given a lot more screen time.

The difference is that Kaworu is certainly made out to be much more self sacrificing in a literal sense in 3.0, the original series it is unquestionably Shinji being forced to kill Kaworu.

Original series Kaworu is ambiguous and is more than likely mimicking humanity as a means to an end, where Rebuild Kaworu is compassionate to a fault.


It could just be me, being older now, the things I respond to could have changed. Or, maybe it's because, in the show, spoiler[Shinji has to kill him, whereas here he just watches Kaworu die.]. I really can't explain it, but I've seen 3.33 twice and that part, while certainly not hollow or unemotional, just didn't have the punch behind it, either time that I watched it, that the original did, at least not for me.
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Jupiter77



Joined: 02 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:41 pm Reply with quote
Each time I see it I enjoy it a little more. I still liked 2.22 the best but I would put it above the first rebuild which was more of a straight remake to the first 6 episodes.
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:42 pm Reply with quote
I'm still awaiting on my order for the blu-ray. So I'll offer my critique based on memory.

__________Spoilers to follow!______________

I'm in the camp, one of the few, who liked 3.0.

I think the problem most others have with the film is that the first two Rebuild films set up an expectation that the 3rd and 4th would literally redo the beats of the TV series over again. But the Rebuild films are NOT a remake. In fact, as others have noticed, the films may actually be sequels to the original TV series.

This theme strongly comes to the fore given that we see the Instrumentality Project as one that's been repeating over and over again. Notice all the Evas piled upon each other as a pillar there, and especially with the idea of the Rebuild films following a musical rhythm style. There are 4 films, with 4 quartet beats. 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, etc. I can't recall the exact musical terminology, but the idea is of a pattern repeating itself over and over and over again.

It seems obvious now that the motions of Eva have been reoccuring. The world is made, it goes through the motions, eventually Gendo, Shinji etc. are reborn again, the impacts happen, possibly Shinji gets into the robot and the world is remade in his image. Or at least in the vein of whoever's piloting it, and maybe Shinji happens to be the most recent guy getting to restart the project. Mankind is dying and being reborn again each time with the man in the cockpit trying to bring about a more perfect world. But everytime it ain't so perfect, bad things happen and the same thing happens all over again.

It then becomes clear now that perhaps Misato and Asuka and their new anti-Nerv organization have figured this out and are actively preventing Shinji from making the same mistake again. They're trying to keep him away from Eva and thus to break the cycle.

What jarrs most people who are having a negative reaction to the film in my mind, and I admit I felt kind of similar at first is that we expected 3.0 to go through the same/similar motions. To follow the 1.0 and 2.0 model and enjoy the same Eva we always did with some new flash and changes and remixing. We did not get that. 1.0 was nearly a carbon copy of the original show. 2.0 also followed near the same beats but changed things up in many ways. It is at 3.0 where we get a drastic change. The time skip is the most significant in that we may feel robbed of suddenly seeing characters we've known suddenly change, relationships broken and we are left just as confused as Shinji is. But I believe this was intentional for that very reason.

Anno, probably knows that fans want the same old Eva, but the old Eva probably to his mind was not the most satisfactory method of resolving the deep themes in it. And thus even here he sees following the same script as Shinji repeating the very mistakes that he's been doing unwittingly over and over again and failing over and over again.

As someone who has gone through bouts of depression, I can say based on my personal experience that this was a result of my ambition to always take risks and try things out and hoping for the right result. But I failed. I tried again. I failed again. I tried something else. That failed. I tried things differently. Those failed. I tried being a different person, and that failed too. And sometimes I failed big time at many things despite imagining I was on the right path or doing the right thing. After a string of successive failures, you lose confidence in yourself. You become apathetic and afraid of doing anything. You just want to curl up in a ball and die.

At the end of 2.0 we see Shinji at probably his finest, full of hope, charging in there to rescue Rei, everything else be damned, he's going to rescue the one he loves. However, he's trapped himself and Instrumentality is cut short by Kowaru, what happens in the aftermath is that he's left comatose in a box while some kind of half-baked instrumentality goes forward.

Now Shinji awakes up years later hoping he'd succeeded. But what the hell? What's happened? Where is he? Why is Misato so cold to him? Why won't anyone answer his questions? Why are they fighting Nerv? Where is Rei? Didn't he save her?

The thing is, Misato, Asuka etc. don't actually know whether the person there is Shinji or not so they are suspicious of him. And if it is Shinji, how are they going to explain to him what happened?

How do they tell a young boy, someone they know and care for that he was responsible for wiping out a host of humanity and destroying most of the world? What would that do to him? Particularly when he's just awoken and probably in a very confused fragile state of mind?

They don't keep all this from him just to be not-so-nice-people. It's BECAUSE THEY CARE! They are conflicted as how to best go about it! Add to the conflict that they are also dealing not only with Angels, but also NERV itself who is now their enemy. There wasn't time to explain this to Shinji. Their hands are full, and so the only thing they know for damn sure is to keep him away from Eva. Again not to be not-so-nice-people, but because they seem to be aware at this point of time that Shinji could trigger another impact and that instrumentality would go through the same pointless cycle that will inevitably lead to the same outcome.

Shinji is not aware of this. He's frustrated. and he wants his biases confirmed. That everything is all right. That he did do the right thing. That he did save Rei.

But all of this turns out to be false despite his best hopes and his best intentions. The world has changed drastically. He feels he's lost his connections to everyone. He's lost his father and Nerv which were giving him some purpose. But he at least saved the girl, right? But it turns out there's something screwed up about this Rei as well. And he senses something is wrong but he can't figure it out.

Then comes the bomb - Kowaru decides to show Shinji the truth. That which Misato and Asuka were hiding from him because they couldn't bring themselves to tell him.

Shinji was responsible for destroying the world and killing many. Including his own friends Toji etc. This would sensibly bring him to his knees.

So what happens next? Obviously Shinji in a fragile state of mind will either hole himself away, or take a chance on a last glimmer of hope. To fix all this. To fix everything. Kowaru leads him to the Eva to reignite Instrumentality once more. What better seduction is there than for a miraculous chance to go back and do things all over again? To make it all right? A do-over?

But as we've seen this is the very insanity that leads to the same thing going around and around.

Much in the same way, fans are expecting the same motions from the 3.0 and 4.0 films. A remake/retelling of the same thing. Anno isn't going to do that. It's necessary to escape this cycle of reincarnation. Because Shinji is just remaking the world with the same past and experiences, albeit altered in slight ways, into the Instrumentality process. He has not expiated it. Indeed is this possible?

For the sake of progress, he has to be stopped. Perhaps Misato's idea of dealing with it is to never restart Instrumentality ever again, and that mankind just moves forward. Whereas Gendo for whatever reason is intent on repeating the process like updating the software from 1.0 to 2.0 to 3.0 to 3.33 etc. over again and continually improving it ad infinitum.

Kowaru feels that if he's with Shinji, he can help him make it through and do it right this time. He'll make Shinji 'happy,' and this is why he stopped the process of Instrumentality from occurring. Because he feels Shinji and him have to do it together.

Here's where I get a bit speculative - When one is trapped in a case of depression etc. One can't help oneself. One needs the aid of another to give him a helping hand.

This is where I disagree with the reviewer - this is NOT about 'self-actualization' and relying on oneself rather than others. In fact that's probably the very thing that led to this mess in the first place. The fact that Shinji himself is the sole pilot of Instrumentality in the Eva. That he takes this burden solely upon himself.

So Kowaru intends to go with him. And that the two of them effect instrumentality. With Kowaru intent on making up for Shinji what he lacks going into instrumentality, that 'love for mankind' etc. it is not just about loving oneself, but loving others.

Think of the piano scene. Shinji can't play at all by himself. He doesn't know how. Kowaru can play by himself quite well. But it's missing something. The two of them playing together, even Shinji haphazardly, but learning along and adding his injections, somehow produces a very nice harmony, and this sychronicity coming together is what would be good for rebuilding the world. It's all right there, the themes of the whole Rebuild films of Shinji and Kowaru on the piano harmoniously going through the same 4 beats and playing a song. It's different this time. He's not by himself. Kowaru gives Shinji hope.

However, when they arrive at their destination in the 2-piloted Eva. Kowaru notes something is off. If I recall correctly, he notes that there are two spears and they're both the same. He's wondering why that is and that takes him away from the scene for a moment. And in the background (THIS IS IMPORTANT) Shinji is confronting Asuka!

Now here is where I'll also speculate as to what 4.0 might be about, which may answer the questions people have.

Kowaru comes to the realization that he's not the right one to start Instrumentality with Shinji. They're both the same! How? In what way? In a sense that Kowaru will always cover for Shinji, but Shinji himself will never learn. Like Rei, Kowaru is also docile, in a sense that both he and Rei are beings who would always accommodate Shinji and what he wants.

But this will not lead to the creation of an ideal world through Instrumentality. The conflicts of the old world will not be resolved and will reoccur over again. This is important in the very conflict of Shinji vs. Asuka who are fighting in the background as Kowaru ponders these things.

Shinji and Asuka are like antithesis of each other. Shinji is more introverted and docile. Asuka is fiery and assertive. These two distinct personalities butt heads. And they create conflict with each other. But at the same time, both Shinji and Asuka are trying to reach each other and to make the other understand them and therefore do what they want.

That is the conflict that will continue on into any potentially rebuilt world. The ones that need to come to the piano are not Shinji and Kowaru.

It's Shinji and Asuka!

The two of them need to reconcile themselves and reach each other. And make up for each other. And compliment each other. They are the yin and yang. If they tune their instruments to accompany each other, say Shinji on the piano and Asuka on the violin. Two different creatures harmonizing themselves to play the music. Then the conflict would be brought to peace.

So in a way, a great rebuild will be achieved or at least taken a major step forward in a new direction if both Shinji and Asuka are the Adam and Eve who effect Instrumentality. Each brings to the table what the other lacks. Whereas during 3.0 it was Kowaru leading Shinji by the hand, at the end of the film it is Asuka grabbing Shinji's hand and leading him along, which may point to where things are going, whereas Rei is left a bit further behind staring at Shinji's tossed away cassette player.

If 3.0's focus was to set aside the other characters and zoom in on Shinji. I feel 4.0's intention would be to focus on Asuka, maybe even pull back the veil on events that occurred during the time Shinji was missing for the first half and the realizations Asuka was coming to. And her foil/counterpart would be Mari just as Shinji's was Kowaru. It may be Mari, just as assertive and bold as Asuka, like a mirror being held up to herself, who may lead her to the realization that she should just admit she deeply cares about baka-Shinji.

All in all, when sitting back and reflecting on 3.0, I feel it could really be brilliant, though of course it needed to step away from the excitement of 2.0 to establish many of these things. So it's the low point for those hoping for more action and spectacle on par with 2.0. And indeed is a slower film overall. But of course my speculations about 3.0 may or may not be true solely based on what 4.0 does. If my thinking is right, then we will wind up seeing Shinji and Asuka coming together to restart Instrumentality, and the world of Eva will forever be changed.

I loved this film. And after taking the time to post all this I actually like it even more. I look forward to the End. Hopefully, we'll hear something about it this year, and I hope what I consider the premature backlash over 3.0 didn't affect the development, and that Anno sticks to what he intended to say.
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Jupiter77



Joined: 02 Feb 2016
Posts: 22
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:09 pm Reply with quote
^

interesting post-I have become more of a fan as I have seen the film more and as a Die hard Asuka fan this film did what I thought was never possible-feel bad for Rei. When Shinji found out she was not "his" Rei he had nothing but disdain for her.

[Edit]: welcome to ANN, but please read the quoting guidelines. Errinundra.
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Haser



Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:20 pm Reply with quote
jdnation wrote:

__________Spoilers to follow!______________
Because Shinji is just remaking the world with the same past and experiences, albeit altered in slight ways, into the Instrumentality process. He has not expiated it. Indeed is this possible?[...]
Shinji and Asuka are like antithesis of each other. Shinji is more introverted and docile. Asuka is fiery and assertive. These two distinct personalities butt heads. And they create conflict with each other.[...]
That is the conflict that will continue on into any potentially rebuilt world. The ones that need to come to the piano are not Shinji and Kowaru.[...]
It's Shinji and Asuka!
So in a way, a great rebuild will be achieved or at least taken a major step forward in a new direction if both Shinji and Asuka are the Adam and Eve who effect Instrumentality. Each brings to the table what the other lacks.[...]

I partially agree with what you are saying about the future of the Rebuild. I feel like i could add a couple of things to further support this interpretation.

1.You said that 3.0 put a focus on Shinji leaving the other characters aside but personally I'd say that it focused on Shinji AND Kaworu. If you think about it all the Rebuild movies follow the same structure of focusing on Shinji+another character: Shinji+Misato for 1.0, Shinji+Rei for 2.0 and Shinji+Kaworu in 3.0. By that logic it would make sense for 4.0 to focus on Shinji+Asuka.

2.Something nobody seems to have pointed out in the discussion is the nickname Asuka was given by Mari (princess), probably regarding it as irrelevant plotwise. I personally believe it can be seen as an element of foreshadowing. Digging a bit deeper in NTE I found various references to fairy tales (in all three movies) that aren't present in the original:

-The most significant one that comes to mind is a book of fairy tales ("The happy prince and other stories" by Oscar Wilde) that, if I'm not mistaken, Rei has in 2.0 and is also referenced by Shinji in 3.0 when he says something about Rei reading foreign books. Without going to much into detail, the story of the "Happy prince" bears many striking similarities to Shinji's journey through 2.0 and especially 3.0.

-A less meaningful reference can be found in 1.0 when Rei protects Shinji from the attack of the crystal angel, as she does so using a "shield" named "Enchanted Shield of Virtue" (from the "Sleeping Beauty"); while it is a bit far-fetched I find it amusing that the only reference to a western fairy tale with a Princess would be the "Sleeping Beauty", considering Asuka's own sleep-related misadventures and the german origin of the tale itself.

-An even smaller reference is the way Kaworu refers to Gendo as "King of the Lilin", which would essentially make Shinji the prince.

Anyway, what really made the nickname stick out to me was Mari's final line to Shinji: spoiler["...Help the princess at least..." which makes very little sense in the context, as Shinji doesn't know who the princess is and is given no time (onscreen) to be of any help.] It definitely feels like it's meant to foreshadow what may have to happen in the next movie. After all it is a typical storytelling trope (in fairy tales) to have the prince help the princess (probably via cooperation in this case).
The "sin" that Shinji has been carrying with him since the original is failing to help Asuka out. It would only make sense for his "redemption" to come in the form of finally being successful in doing so.
No "..And they lived happily ever after" though, that is one fairy tale clichè we likely won't see here.

As for the review itself, i appreciate the toughtful approach, though i can't agree with the emotional intensity described, as it feels to me like a less effective repetition of what we had already seen in the original; probably due to the lack of meaningful character development, outside of Shinji's, which ends up hurting the believability of Shinji's own struggle. In the original we had Asuka and Misato's development to go along with Shinji's, in the Rebuild we really only have Shinji.
I do agree that one of the main messages/themes of the movie (and Evangelion in the general) is that being loved (understood or appreciated) by others can't replace self-acceptance (and that is also the reason why the relationships between Shinji and Rei-Kaworu are always bound to end badly, as they don't offer enough of a conflict for Shinji to grow while they last, but they do so only when they end).
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jdnation



Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:57 pm Reply with quote
^ Very interesting stuff!

With regards to Mari's line spoiler["Help the princess"]

I can't recall, was that said to Shinji in 2.0 or 3.0?

If I recall, that's kind of precisely what he's trying to do with regards to helping Rei towards the end of 2.0. Was this a kind of mis-identification on Shinji's part?

I believe Mari's part in all this may be more pivotal in 4.0. We are familiar with everyone else but her.

In Sadamoto's manga, the final volume has an extra story that reveals spoiler[Mari may be a colleague of Yui Ikari (Shinji's mother) from the past.] Though knowing that the Eva manga is its own thing, that may not be relevant here, or perhaps interpretatively the Sadamoto manga may just have been one hypothetical world prior to a repeated third impact.
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:57 am Reply with quote
Great review. This film left indeed a strong emotional impact on me and yes, its a pretty "weird" movie but overall the main problems for me were the animalistic EVAs which look silly and break my suspension of disbelief. Yes, that was my problem and the excessive action sequences that lasted forever, I prefer the more "artistic" parts of the film.
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Haser



Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:49 am Reply with quote
The weirdness of the movie is the one thing i'm thankful for, considering I didn't like the more clichèd characterization of the cast in 2.0 nor the direction it seemed to be going in.

jdnation wrote:
With regards to Mari's line spoiler["Help the princess"]I can't recall, was that said to Shinji in 2.0 or 3.0?
In Sadamoto's manga, the final volume has an extra story that reveals spoiler[Mari may be a colleague of Yui Ikari (Shinji's mother) from the past.]
End of 3.0, it's what makes it stick out, considering the 14 year timeskip and the context of the exchange.
In regard to the side chapter of the manga i believe it could be canonical to NTE too (just an opinion ofc); let's not forget that Mari in 3.0(spoiler for the manga and the movie)spoiler[refers to Gendo as Gendo-kun which is coherent with what we see in the side chapter.]
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Sporkaganza



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:16 pm Reply with quote
I like the film, but mostly on the level of enjoying the new direction the characters have gone. Shinji is obviously the one with the biggest arc, but I think many of the characters at least have something going on, however small, and aren't just reacting to what Shinji does. We see how Misato and Asuka have grown bitter over the years, and I especially love the version of Rei in this movie, who actually does get an arc of self-discovery, just a super minimalist one (she has like 10 lines in the movie maybe). And Mari... well, okay, she's still basically one-dimensional, and all the foreshadowing of her being some kind of spy was just ignored. But whatever.

I just got my DVD and watched the dub, though, and I have to say, all the stuff about the worldbuilding of this movie being unbelievably confusing is pretty spot-on. The sheer amount of jargon thrown at you is bad enough, but like three-quarters of it completely contradicts everything we previously knew about Evangelion lore. I feel like there are reasonable explanations for why everything is so different than we thought, but somewhere along the line the story people just threw up their hands and said "eff it".

But the biggest problem is that like other people have said, it feels like half a movie. The final film is going to have to cover a LOT of ground to make up for it.
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HaruhiToy



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:54 am Reply with quote
jdnation wrote:
How do they tell a young boy, someone they know and care for that he was responsible for wiping out a host of humanity and destroying most of the world? What would that do to him? Particularly when he's just awoken and probably in a very confused fragile state of mind?

This part sounds like rationalization to me. Some you care about, obviously disoriented with obvious reasons for disorienting. Tell him nothing coherent and in context, threaten him, put him in restraints, stick that person on the bridge in a battleship in the middle of an extremely violent battle, tell them the person they were desperately trying to save is dead (and she shows up minutes later) and when he actually offers to help tell him how worthless he is and most importantly always will be.

If you went just by the first fifteen minutes I would be tempted to rename this movie "Let's Treat Shinji Like Shit Show."

And then father-of-the-year Gendo --- well never mind.

The review Zac put up seems to me like it is better than the actual movie,but the review does put the correct structure around Shinji's state of mind. ideation fills in a lot of details that are easy to miss and does a lot to rehabilitate that view of it.

At the end of the day it seemed that expended all their creative energy on the battles, the visual effects, the whacked-out pseudo-religious jargon and weird science, and had nothing left for the story. The end result is a very surreal effect. You see people living but no idea how they live. At one point you see all these seaborne battleships and aircraft characters flying through the air but not one person aboard or around any of them. Even when they were hurriedly loading "supplies." No idea where they came from. What are they expected to do? It is only Misato's otherworldly-powered ship that makes any difference.

You can't even explain how the perfect-condition piano is protected from the rain.

So I rather enjoyed the effects and enjoyed watching it, but I doubt I'll ever watch it again.
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SirLargeness



Joined: 06 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:53 pm Reply with quote
could someone help me understand if 3.3 is supposed to start with us missing a large amount of information, and i mean more than normal for Eva. At the end of 2.0 third impact was stopped by the Lance thru unit 01, but at the beginning of 3.3 unit 01 is locked in a satellite and third impact has occurred. Are we meant to assume that yet another incident occurred while shinji was piloting unit 01 offscreen in between 2.0 and 3.33?
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