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The Mike Toole Show - Macross the Universe


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DuelGundam2099



Joined: 07 Dec 2014
Posts: 533
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:00 pm Reply with quote
The only thing that came to mind in this article was how much I missed Macross World. Sad Also, no mention of Dynamite 7? Or how Macross has been such a part of the Super Robot Wars games since the Alpha titles? Come on Mike, you're the most relatable person on ANN staff to /m/ users like me! Razz
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maximilianjenus



Joined: 29 Apr 2013
Posts: 1544
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:16 pm Reply with quote
zentraedi
zentraedi
zentraedi

zentradi is ok too

robotech plus, robotech,7 and robotech frontier sound good too.
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Angel'sArcanum



Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 278
Location: Toronto, Ontario
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:25 pm Reply with quote
I feel like now is as good a time and place as any to ask some Macross questions, because I've been meaning to get into the franchise for a while but keep holding it off and having some confusion and such. I will "find a means" of watching the first 3 series so to speak, but my main concern right now is the Japanese blu-rays for Plus and the Frontier movies.

So I hear the original Plus blu-ray set was a bit problematic because the subs weren't great or something and it was only subbed on one version (OVA or movie format) while dubbed on the other without subs or something, I forget all the details, but I hear it wasn't a great release, but now there's a new release of the movie version that came out earlier this year, and I'm wondering if anyone knows if it has subs or not as well. Yesasia hasn't mentioned anything about it, so I'm not sure. I found the Manga US DVDs a little while ago, but I may want to upgrade if there are subs and the quality is worth it.

Then there's the Macross Frontier movies, I know they too were subbed in some special edition box that, like the Plus Blu-Ray box, is now OOP and such, and was a bit pricey at the time if I recall, but they put out both movies individually now and I'm wondering if they have subs too or if this is like the whole Jojo thing where they had subs for the early 2-3 episode Blu-Rays but removed them for the 9 episode sets. Can anyone clear this up for me?
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D00dleB0Y



Joined: 08 May 2015
Posts: 100
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:29 pm Reply with quote
Nice, I'm going to Japan for a month in the summer so this was decent information to say the least.
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angelmcazares
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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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Location: Iscandar
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:49 pm Reply with quote
I have a general idea of what the storyline for the original Macross is from watching Robotech a while back (in Netflix, I think), but from the article Mike seems to be saying that Macross has always been more about the visual spectacle than actual good writing,

But this article has convinced me to import Do You Remember Love? I am cool with it not having subtitles if the story is not that well written. For years I have heard anime critics like Mike and Justin (Sevakis) gush about how wonderfully animated and crafted this film is.

I hope to also get blown away by the visuals and production to be able to justify the $50 I am paying for it.
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Zin5ki
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 5598
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:09 pm Reply with quote
Mike Toole wrote:
See, this new release of Macross: Do You Remember Love? has three things going for it. First of all, it's completely uncensored, unlike an earlier 2012 release that had a couple of the most violent bits snipped out.

Stop the bus! I imported a Japanese DVD release of Macross: Do You Remember Love? for a grand little sum back in 2010. Do tell me that this, the crowning jewel amidst my Macross-related bounties, has not been subjected to unwanted trimmings!

Mike Toole wrote:
“Do you really want Robotech 7?” asked Tommy, wincing theatrically. “Robotech Frontier?” If part of that deal would deliver uncut Macross 7 and Macross Frontier to fans, then yes, I kinda do.

Official Macross releases coming to fruition as by-products from new Robotech deals is a scheme we can all sympathise with, though it must be said that the anticipated ratio of chaff to wheat exceeds what most millers would tolerate.

angelmcazares wrote:
I hope to also get blown away by the visuals and production to be able to justify the $50 I am paying for it.

If the original series was at all to your liking, this is somewhat of an inevitability. I haphazardly used some software to stream external subtitles as the disc played, though I needed to manually adjust the timing throughout.
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Sakura Shinguji



Joined: 09 Feb 2005
Posts: 128
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:46 pm Reply with quote
Angel'sArcanum wrote:
I feel like now is as good a time and place as any to ask some Macross questions, because I've been meaning to get into the franchise for a while but keep holding it off and having some confusion and such. I will "find a means" of watching the first 3 series so to speak, but my main concern right now is the Japanese blu-rays for Plus and the Frontier movies...

Can anyone clear this up for me?


None of the recent Blu-ray re-releases of the various theatrical Macross installments include the subtitles that were present on previous releases, so no subtitles for the Macross Plus movie or the Macross Frontier movie.

There is a point that the article does get at in a couple of different ways that ends up not being as clear as it could; while I too would deal with the idea of something like Robotech Frontier if it meant a more available domestic release of the original version (I say this having imported the Japanese Blu-ray releases of the whole damn franchise already), it's borderline insulting to have that reaction of Tommy's related to us in this article as if it's entirely up to Harmony Gold to make that decision.

Mike correctly mentions elsewhere in the article that Harmony Gold's original and ongoing vaguely illegal license only covers trademarks relating to the original TV series, and that their shenanigans with Big West means no more actual properties will ever be licensed. What this means is that the arrogance that Frank Agrama and Tommy Yune and others still to this day strut around with is completely unfounded, because 1) they couldn't license any more Macross no matter how hard they might ever try, which they really are not, and 2) they will most certainly jump up and take legal action against anyone else who tries to, as they have done in the past. It's absolutely asinine.

As Mike alludes to, there's a wholly unfought legal challenge here that spans the Pacific, which, if ever fought, Harmony Gold would almost certainly lose based on the questionable circumstances of their original license and the draconian overreaching they've been allowed to get away with up til now. The problem is, of course, money, insofar as the legal fees to simply fight the case, regardless of outcome, would likely not justify the eventual profits from controlling the franchise, because this may be Macross, but it's also still just anime, so the scale of dollars is much smaller than Hollywood projects.

Here now is also an obligatory mention of the oft-unreported fact that Frank Agrama is a lying criminal who was convicted and sentenced in court in Italy alongside corrupt former PM Silvio Berlusconi (for unrelated matters, as amusing as it is to imagine Berlusconi being some sort of closet Macross fan or whatever), but escaped jail time on a technicality, and currently may or may not need as much lingering Robotech money he can still squeeze out of that limp husk of a license in order to finish paying off his own legal fees. So, keep buying those Robotech DVD re-releases, kids! Uncle Frank needs your help!
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ResistNormal



Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 80
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:05 pm Reply with quote
Any one want to start a kickstarter to raise money for Big West and Bandai to finally challenge Harmony Gold in court. Lol
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 3427
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:30 pm Reply with quote
As much as it is wonderful to imagine that the Japanese would easily win a court case against Harmony Gold, I think if it was that easy or a forgone conclusion the case would have happened a long time ago.

It is easy to malign Harmony Gold, because they are the roadblock to preventing Macross Frontier and Delta from being released here. But the Japanese have been known for playing hard ball too. They are not always innocent.

I think the fact that there hasn't been a case, says a lot about what the Japanese actually think about their chances. And perhaps that we haven't heard the whole story about how we got to this point.

The Japanese are not as pure as the driven snow, and the blood of Vader doesn't flow through Harmony Gold.
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johnnysasaki



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 369
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:30 pm Reply with quote
speaking about Macross Zero,didn't the Blu-Ray release actually added some stuff that ties Sheryl and her ancestors?
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Beltane70



Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 1935
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:04 pm Reply with quote
Ah, yes DYRL, the film that brought me into the wonderful world of anime 30 years ago!

johnnysasaki wrote:
speaking about Macross Zero,didn't the Blu-Ray release actually added some stuff that ties Sheryl and her ancestors?


Yes, it did. There's a scene that, if I recall correctly, shows some of Sara's belongings on a table. In the BD release, they added the earrings to the table, which were not originally there on Zero's regular release. Even without that, there were still ties in Frontier to Zero, since, in Frontier, we do see a picture of Sheryl's grandmother, Mao Nome, who appeared as a young girl in Zero, as an elderly woman. Plus, Ranka Lee also plays the part of Mao in the Birdman movie they're filming within the Frontier TV series.
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doubleO7



Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 968
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:19 pm Reply with quote
So, from what I've gathered the only JP Macross Blu-ray releases that include any English-language options (aside from the upcoming Delta BDs) were the 2013 Plus OVA/Movie set (dub for OVAs and subs for Movie?) and the 30th Anniversary set for the Frontier movies, but all subs and dubs were omitted from later re-releases? Does that sound right?
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 7384
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:03 pm Reply with quote
Macross has been done such a disservice from both sides of the Pacific. In Japan, they've driven the idol element into the ground by having it completely dominate the Macross narrative now. The entirely point of "The Minmay Defense" is culture shock to the Zentradi. This new series with its idol superheroes is a sad mirror to the degeneration of Japanese culture via the utter deification of (and perverted standards for) idols. Macross 7 was a freak show, Macross Zero was a frustrating waste of potential, and I can barely remember anything about Frontier outside it's soundtrack. It's the original SDF Macross and Macross Plus that has all the innovation and creativity in the franchise, with DYRL a spectacular revisiting of the original series. Plus is the height of narrative and thematic elements, driven by the brilliance of Shinichiro Watanabe, who compensates for Kawamori's flaws.

Unfortunately, because of Harmony Gold's obstinate nostalgia-dredging, most Macross fans in America don't even get the privilege of making their own opinions on these titles. They've been shooting themselves in the foot, and frankly, passing up free money, but not taking advantage of the Macross horde. Never have I seen a company so allergic to making a tidy profit. The money is just waiting for them to take it, and they refuse. People are forced to import from Japan to get what HG could easily be the middle man for, but it's like they're just sitting there, holding their breath until they're blue because less and less people care about Macek's mutant love child.

For my money, Gundam, while having more stinkers, also has more successes, both creatively and financially, and it's no longer such an arduous task to get ahold of, thanks to TRSI. But I do wish I could get a good Blu-Ray of Macross Plus with English subtitles domestically. I'd pay double.
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kazenoyume



Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 383
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:13 pm Reply with quote
The Frontier movies are not a 'condensed version of the tv series'. They're a complete retelling. The story is very different between the two.

I don't agree that Frontier's tv anime had a bungled ending though. Not at all.
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wolf10



Joined: 23 Jan 2016
Posts: 219
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:28 pm Reply with quote
kazenoyume wrote:
The Frontier movies are not a 'condensed version of the tv series'. They're a complete retelling. The story is very different between the two.

I don't agree that Frontier's tv anime had a bungled ending though. Not at all.

Ah, someone beat me to it.

I've sort of had to rationalize the existence of the movies as showing the alternate "Sheryl Route" that exists in contrast to the TV series' "Ranka Route." Among other things, spoiler[not truly "resolving" the love triangle that was on every viewer's mind on-screen] was actually the strength of the original ending, in my opinion. A series that tries to send a message about how spoiler[you don't need a clearly defined "winner" and "loser" in war kinda shoots itself in the thematic foot by trying to pick a winner in vicious ship-to-ship combat]. At least to me. Kawamori apparently disagrees, so we'll see how Delta goes.
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