Forum - View topicBerserk (TV 2016/17).
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Iemander
 Posts: 443 |
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Am I the only one who thinks the animation and art for this anime is unbelievably well done?
I had some reservations with the 3D approach but holy shit, I cannot believe how unbelievably sweet they made some of the shots. Especially the last shot where he stands next to Casca with his sword in hand, it reminds me of the amazing artwork in the manga. It isn't just this episode either, I love Morgzul's schizo and Skullknight's menacing but at the same welcoming presence. It really feels like the manga come to life and I can't help being all giddy about it. So far, this series feels similar to 300. It cuts out all the slower pieces and goes from setpiece to setpiece in stunning detail. As a huge fan of the manga I don't mind this at all. Though I can imagine if you're new to Berserk you'd think the story is lacking. Now, the manga is also more about Guts struggling, where he basically constantly gets beat up to absolute shit before getting his act together and destroying his enemies. In this anime he's so far being portrayed as almost invincible, which makes some of the battle scenes less impactful. Here's hoping he gets a serious adversary soon. |
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Gina Szanboti
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Well, I agree it's unbelievable. But I'm not using the word as a compliment. 
This episode seemed to be an improvement, unless I've just mentally lowered my expectations for this and no longer notice except when they dip even below that. I mean, I can get used to just about anything if the story is good, and it's finally gotten sort of good, except for the Casca = Our Lady of Perpetual Victimization trope. Isidro was pretty great. I don't know why Puck wasted so much time talking to him before zipping off to get Guts. Puck's view of his humans as real estate was a nice comic diversion too. |
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traffiktiger
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I agree with you and in particular I love episode 7. The animation keeps getting more refined with each episode. Most anime have very static backgrounds & lack multiple characters moving at the same time but this show has quite a lot of animations in scenes & character movement. This show is not typical anime that just pans over still images & has one character's mouth flapping. Also the sweeping shots & camera angles are so cool & unique. I just love the show’s style & direction. Shin Itagaki is doing an excellent job & I'm going to start following all his work because I'm now a fan. I know most people who like anime are not fans of the 3d animation but I hope people give it a fair chance because there is nothing quite like it. Also It is tragic that Casca is now severely mentally ill, acts child like, & is reduced to being a victim, but I think it plays well to the dark theme of the narrative. It is sad that mentally ill people are at a higher risk of being victimized especially without a guardian looking out for them, but in a world full of powerful demons with perverse morals she is now just one of many victims which includes Guts. I hope she regains her power, health, & returns to the Casca we knew from The Golden Age Arc but I don’t believe it will happen for a very long time or sadly at all, which will for many, including myself, be very hard to watch. |
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Souther
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Honestly, I don't think the visuals, especially in 3-D, are very good most of the time, the movement is stiff, the characters' facial expressions don't come across well when they're 3-D and it doesn't blend very well with the 2-D animation, which is also lacking. They try to compensate for the lack of animation through dynamic camera movement, but it's used excessively (Luca spanking Nina's a good example of this). However, I wasn't expecting much in that department because the movies also struggled with the 3-D animation, the studio that did them are a lot more renowned, and they had more time and money. So I was mostly concerned about how they would adapt and arrange the story. I don't think they did a very good job with that either. This series has the same problems the movies did: they're trying to compress a lot of material into a short run and the story suffers for it. Guts's character isn't compelling in this adaptation because they had to cut out parts of the story that characterise and develop him. His struggles in retaining his humanity, his revenge, his pain, and the fact he's still a good man deep down despite everything..hardly any of that is there. The way Apostles are made, what they represent and the tragedy behind them....barely comprehensible so far. Basic information on specific things (like what the demon child is that keeps protecting Casca, where Guts got a Behelit, etc.)....not there. Rushed pacing, removal of scenes, dialogue and other elements (Puck's revealing of his healing ability puts episodes 2 and 3 into question) creates more confusion too. The slow parts in Berserk have a good deal of development. Remove themon top of everything else they've cut, and you've got a pretty weak version of the Conviction Arc imo. Finally, I think even within the limit of 12 episodes, the story could've been rearranged better but I believe most of the decisions they've made in terms of story arrangement are because of scheduling and difficulties in what they could realistically animate. Perhaps the way they arranged things was the only way they could get things done? Who knows. But despite a few things, they did a nice job on episode 7. |
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Iemander
Posts: 443 |
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I dissagree completely on almost every point.
As a big fan of the manga, it's obvious this adaption is going for the set pieces and less for the characterization and lore. Which is fine, because imo this is exactly what the golden age arc was meant for. There's no reason to explain the same things again and again. I also really really like the graphics, some of the 3D is somewhat akward but heck that feels like a detail, it dissapears in the awesome art and scene direction. The lighting work, Guts' sweeping cape, the many scenes that have been directly copied from the manga but with added animation. The whole thing feels like the manga come to life, and if there's one thing the manga did well is it's awesome art, I'm seriously happy to see it replicated so well. That last shot of Guts standing next to Casca is one of the manga's iconic artworks, I recognized it immediately. To see that animated with the camera doing a 180 degrees sweep around it, really it's a Berserk manga fan's wet dream. Also, I don't really see what you mean with many still shots and no animation. There's far more animation here than any anime I've seen in the past year. Mainly because it's so action oriented and there are actually simply very little still scenes where it's just talking. If there's one thing the original Berserk anime dissapointed in it was this. The only thing I didn't like so far was the very first episode. Which wasn't good at all, I was pretty skeptical after that. But I absolutely loved episode 5 and 7. I saw the movies and I felt those were much inferior to the previous anime adaption and to this. But that's mainly because the story and characterizations are far more important in that Golden Age arc of Guts' story. Also, the art direction felt less impressive, but that also goes for the manga. Back then the Berserk manga's art was not as refined as what it is today. It's really an anime for fans of the manga tho, if you're not into Berserk and this is your first contact with it, you should back off and read the manga first. Many things will indeed feel rushed. |
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Iemander
Posts: 443 |
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spoiler[Sorry to say, Casca in the manga hasn't recovered yet] |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11346 |
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^ How could she possibly spoiler[recover when she keeps getting sexually assaulted] every time she turns around?
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Souther
Posts: 602 |
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While the show doesn't need to explain the Golden Age Arc again aside from a few things (I've more than had my fill of that arc lol), I think the lore of the world, the characterisation and development post-Golden Age is important. Like I said up there, we don't see much of Guts's quest for revenge, or his fears or much of anything that humanises him, aside from the incident with Colette and when he examines his goals in episode 4. For me, this is a much less compelling version of Guts to the point where almost everyone else is more interesting than him outside of action scenes. Ironically, the development and characterisation they cut out's where a lot of the action pieces are (the Apostle fights in Lost Children and Blackswordsman, for example). The Golden Age arc focuses more on the drama and characters more than the fantasy/supernatural elements of Berserk's world, because Blackswordsman already introduces you to all of that before Golden Age starts (Apostles, the brand, what happens to the branded when they die, etc.). However, this adaptation doesn't explain these elements very well in the story. Not only that, there's basic information the series never bothers to explain, like the demon child (who's an important and tragic element in its own right). This part of Conviction is a slow burn, it takes its time to explore Albion, the refugees, the Holy See and develops other characters like Farnese, Nina, etc., and I think it's all important to the story and its themes. But by cutting things and rushing the pacing, they end up being a bunch of confusing events that lack significance so they end up being something to endure until we get to the action. But the action feels more hollow because the build up and the emotion is lacking for the most part (though episode 7 was pretty good). And honestly, I don't think the action's depicted particularly that well in this anime, barring this episode and maybe the fight with the Bakiraka. They also give more screentime to scenes that aren't as important (the possessed horse scene went on longer than it needed to compared to the manga, as did Luca's scene with Jerome and her spanking Nina when that time could have been allotted to more of Guts's talk with Skull Knight and his explanation of causality, the brand, etc.). As for the animation, I think a lot of the camerawork's there as shortcuts to give certain scenes that don't have much animation going on in them the illusion of movement and flair. For example, Guts's final swing against the possessed tree; there's camera rotation and shake, but in reality, he's holding a stationary pose for a while until he brings down his sword. Another is the dog Apostle's transformation; the camera's on him in his human form, it rotates around to Guts and Farnese, then back to him and he's in his Apostle form, but you don't actually see him physically transform because it'd be extra work animation-wise. Honestly, that stuff's minor, my problem is more that they also shove those movements in scenes where it doesn't belong, like the example I mentioned above with Luca and Nina. The camera movement (as well as the animation) makes the scene even more laughable. Like I said before, I don't think the movement's very fluid, and the characters cannot emote well and the visuals aren't too hot. While the manga's art in Conviction's definitely not on the level of the later stuff, there's still a great deal of impact and emotion that isn't there in the 3-D animation, and even the 2-D animation at times. If this is an adaptation for the Berserk fans who're fans of the manga, I don't think it's a particularly good one, because it's missing a number of things they wanted to see animated (Lost Children, Blackswordsman, etc.) and a good deal of the development, characterisation and lore that makes the story compelling, at least in my eyes. I don't think they've arranged the story very well even within the episode count they've given themselves (episodes 1 and 3 were terrible rearrangements of the manga) and so far, I don't think it offers much to fans of the source material. Rather I believe it's meant to get Berserk's name out there once again and promote the manga and new game coming out, my basis for this being that in Japan, they're padding this adaptation with outside supplementary material, and free digital volumes of 1-14 until the end of next month. But outside of Japan, it isn't that accommodating to fans who haven't read the manga and it's especially not accommodating to fans who are completely new to Berserk. For the most part, I think it's a visually and narratively flawed adaptation that accentuates the narmy parts of Conviction, and probably does more to deter people from Berserk than getting them into it, but there's still some good in it. Should they animate Berserk further, I hope they'll improve, but I can't see this studio being capable of animating the next arc completely. Visually, I think it's far beyond what most studios would want to take on, let alone this one. Anyway, I've complained about Berserk enough, and I've posted way too many words lol, that's it from me. Last edited by Souther on Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:47 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Iemander
Posts: 443 |
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Well, again, I don't really agree. The Berserk manga is also very inconsistent in how it portays it's world and Guts. Golden age world vs current Berserk world couldn't be more different from each other. Where Guts is crying over his 100-ish band of comrades, he sometimes gets into situations where entire villages and cities are razed to the ground killing thousands, with him barely batting an eye. Not to mention that Guts has changed his ideals and way of thinking numerous times since the manga began, this being less due to character development and more because imo the writer has a different outlook on things after the 25 years since the manga began.
What's important is not the lore and details of the setting. Because really, they're inconsistent in itself with the exception of the golden age arc. What's important to Berserk is getting the tone right, the madness and horrors. And this is imo well done. As for the animation: I think you over estimate animations from anime in general tho. Granted Berserk is not movie quality animation and it's not in the same level as truly expensive massive productions like Kabaneri of the iron fortress. However, fights like Guts vs attacking horses at the beginning of episode 7 would in most animes be nothing more than a few horizontal slashes and an after image. If the action sequence would even be animated to begin with. Guts vs the Kushians must be one of my favorite animated action scenes in anime for the past years as well, the swing that rips through the kushians was just awesome. It also adds to the weighty action that is Berserk. Although I absolutely love it, Re:zero Starting life in another world, is the perfect example of a show that barely has any animation to begin with. Also, I think we both interpret animations differently. Camera movements in a scene and every sequence that is animated as opposed to still images is animated to me. Still being: Dialogue scenes where it's just talking heads or slow moving shadows. There are very few of those in Berserk. One more thing that I absolutely love so far, is the weighty combat. One of my main criticism to action in anime in general has been how they make everything so effortless and paper thin. Especially mecha series, I have rarely seen a mecha anime that is actually able to make the mechs feel like actual machines. Usually, mechs are shown as being super fast, super agile, etc. I couldn't watch Eureka Seven for this very reason really, where mechs were surfing on clouds like toys, apparently barely needing any real mechanic or upkeep, with a crew you could count on your hands. The one big exception being Evangelion, that also had more methodical combat that felt weighty and realistic. I'm happy Berserk also focuses in trying to get combat feel weighty, really puts something in anime that I feel is just missing overall. |
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Souther
Posts: 602 |
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Miura indeed didn't have Guts's character completely established at the beginning during Blackswordsman, according to an interview that's been floating around. In fact, he said he didn't even have the Golden Age completely thought through. Though, I don't think there's much contradiction. Golden Age Guts differed because he was in much happier times. After the Eclipse, he wants to drown himself in vengeance, and he tries very hard to convince himself that he doesn't care about what happens to people who get caught up in his revenge, but deep down he does. You can see that when Puck challenges him about what'll happen to the people in the town, with Colette, and at the end of the Blackswordsman Arc. Similar things happen in Lost Children, but Puck (and other things) plays a role in helping him retain his humanity and he gradually softens. Even Rickert points out that Puck played a role in helping Guts stay human during his stay at Godo's (sadly removed in the anime). After getting an earful from Erica and Godo, Guts takes what they said to heart, examines his revenge, doubts and regrets and realises what's important is Casca and not losing her for good. More events happen where Guts is once again forced to change his outlook and he gradually develops until you get to where he is in the story now. I think the development of his character's consistent with the story and it's done really well. As for the world, I think it's also consistently portrayed and its details are really important to the story and understanding of certain events, especially in later arcs. Unfortunately, I can't get into that because this anime's still ongoing, I don't even want to discuss it in spoiler bars just in case. As for everything else, I guess I'll have to agree to disagree. |
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traffiktiger
Posts: 86 |
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@lemander my views on this anime is almost exactly like yours & I 'm really enjoying it.
I noticed you mentioned Kabaneri of the Iron Fortress which I liked a lot but it had some major inconsistencies with it's animation and story. The first two episodes the animation is phenomenal. From there the animation declined until I think the festival episode (maybe episode 6?). Then it was back downhill until the last two episodes. It also had a lot of limited animation cheats, like panning over stills of hectic crowds & chaos. I believe the scenes that were animated well are the ones that are going into the feature film. But to tell you the truth I kind of like the animation in Berserk as much as I enjoy Kanbaneri's overall because of the mentioned inconsistencies in animation quality & its over use of limited animation in hectic scenes. You can't compare Kabaneri story, which is fun and dumb but nowhere near the quality of Berserk's. I also enjoy Berserk's score better. Really I don't think Berserk has a very cheap budget like everyone on the threads think. I say it has a modest budget but that is a guess & if it actually has a limited budget they've done a lot with it. Last edited by traffiktiger on Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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traffiktiger
Posts: 86 |
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Great news for the fans of the series! An announcement of the Berserk 2016 DVD boxsets scheduled to release in Japan on 2 sets. Set 1 & 2 will come out on 10/28/2016 & 12/21/16. On April 2, 2017 there is a stage event be held outside Tokyo. It will feature the seiyū along with 9mm Parabellum Bullet.
Will they announce the continuation of the anime?? I'm so excited! Source crunchyroll.com http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2016/08/17-1/berserk-anime-cast-event-planned-for-2017 |
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Stark700
 Posts: 11762 Location: Earth |
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Episode 7:
The scenes with Nina got me the most this week. Guts did a decent job at fighting off those monsters, especially the Goat. I'm not bothered by the CGI anymore, got pretty much used to it by now. |
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Souther
Posts: 602 |
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^
It's Episode 8 actually. 4 more eps to go, fitting in the last part of Conviction's gonna be tight. Episode 8 spoilers, just in case. spoiler[Episode was actually pretty faithful. They added a good detail that wasn't in the manga; the fact that Guts's palms were rough and more difficult for Serpico to slash, that was cool. Though, they also added Farnese beating the absolute piss out of her men for ages, whereas she just slapped them originally, which was pretty excessive. Goat fight was nice, Serpico fight suffered from jerky animation though. Serpico's absolutely incredible, he lured Guts to a location that sealed a vast majority of his tools, and though Guts still came out on top, he pulled off a nifty escape with his life Had to laugh at the way Guts didn't waste any time just firing at Serpico and trying to blow him up. Really great moment when Guts got angry at Isidro, and you can see the poor kid in tears, but Guts relaxed and forgave him. Isidro's not one to dwell on his failures either, he's immediately trying to make up for it. That's cool. And no matter what, I feel sorry for Nina. She's a frail who's dying of a venereal disease, and you're trying to survive in the craphole that's Albion. She knows she's being awful, but she can't help herself. Ultimately, Nina's the representative of the average person in Albion. Consumed by fear, struggling to survive in extreme circumstances and wanting an escape from it all. I don't think she's a bad person. Gotta laugh at the torturer berating her for cowardice though.] Puck and Isidro are simply the best lol. And despite Casca's condition, she still manages to try and comfort Nina, that's sweet. |
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Gina Szanboti
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So why could the people in the tavern see Puck? They struck me as neither unusually religious, nor excessively evil (not sure which is making him visible now).
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