Forum - View topicThe Rebirth of Sailor Moon Crystal
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Sailor Sedna
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(Sorry if this post is too long)
I think Crystal now is finally where it's at, and Toei has finally made a modern day Sailor Moon anime. @ Animechic420 Mercury's ending pose is fine, I like it, but I can't understand how in her ending pose she looks like she has to pee, look at this gif of her from the Sailor Moon MegaDrive game: 
There it looks like she's gotta take a wiz... 
@#838774 I still think it's a great story and don't see it as generic, if it truly was that, then how did it get all successful over here in America besides Japan, and be such a huge success and get a lot of people into anime? 
That's kinda like saying (as an example) The Beatles were "always a generic band/never that great" when they sold who knows how many concerts, had a lot of albums, their music continues to be loved today, and albums were being made even after they broke up. One reason why it was groundbreaking and why it's unique is because it was the first time we saw an all female fighting team, and it did change some things we always see in stories and such, the princess saves the prince instead of the other way around and such. It still holds up for me and a lot of us, it's special to so many people! True, the animation may not be like how you'd see it nowadays, and there is filler, but it still has a ton of qualities that I believe will still keep it popular for years to come. In my opinion honestly, a lot of modern magical girl anime aren't even as good as it, especially the later parts of Precure, which is getting worse and worse, and that franchise just probably needs to take a rest. The only ones I think that can match up to its quality are Tokyo Mew Mew and some of the earlier parts of Precure. (And honestly, I think you sounded a bit insulting claiming CrowLia was "setting themselves up for failure thinking it would be special." Well, wouldn't you want to think something was special if you were told this was a newer version of a famous anime?  )
@Aquamine-Amarine It wasn't even that faithful to the manga to start with (first two seasons), they cut out certain scenes, added a ton of dialogue not in the manga, pushed the Inners to the side and give their accomplishments to Usagi, and that Four Generals x Inners trainwreck... And most of us were not "ungrateful", whenever we had problems with Crystal and how Toei was doing the first few seasons of it, and stated our opinions, a ton of Crystal fans kept on attacking us, cyberbullying us, claiming that we were "blinded by nostalgia/not real fans", harassing us, sending us hate messages, sometimes death and violence threats even, and they'd turn a blind eye to every flaw, making fans who loved the original anime and manga but had problems with Crystal feel like outcasts. There are still times where that happens even.
And yeah, if Toei fired people and redid the art style, then that's saying something. @Minimimiau Can't agree on that. Michiru was so underused here and just feels like she's "there", doesn't seem to stand out at all except maybe being "The Sailor with the Mirror Talisman", is basically just an accessory to Haruka. I felt Haruka was honestly just a bit of a creep just kissing Usagi like that (yes, I know it's to show her love for the Princess, but that's no excuse, she's still kissing/assaulting a minor!), and out of all the focus for the Outers, why does it have to be all about her? 
That's just what I think though. @tootbrush I'd sadly say both. Naoko actually said she wasn't that great (what I heard)...me, she's not terrible, but she isn't as great as people say she is. @CrowLia I'm afraid that's the problem with the manga, the fans overhype it a whole lot, and when I read the manga, I was like..."OK, this is good, but I don't know how this is better than the anime..." I do agree, Usagi I'm afraid is more of a Mary Sue in here, her maturity doesn't feel that realistic here to me, and it's like she loses all of her flaws as the manga goes on, unlike how (sorry if I'm bringing this up again) the original anime still kept her clumsiness/crybaby flaws from time to time, but showed them less showing how she still had her flaws even if she matured more. Yeah, the lack of character development is one reason I found the manga inferior. And I'm sorry, but yeah, I'm afraid a share of the blame may have to go to Naoko...she said she wasn't that great of a writer in her opinion from what I heard... Toei was so better back in the 80s and 90s. They did Mononoke though? I thought it was Ghibli... |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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I might have been able to overlook the weak writing/generic plot if the show had given me something else to chew on. I am a massive fan of Saint Seiya, far from Shakespeare as well, a generic shonen if there was ever one, but it was so full of passion and exciting battles and emotional bonds between the character. The thing is Sailor Moon has gone down through the ages with a series of promises that Crystal has failed to live up to: a) A female empowering show: in season 1 Usagi spends most of the time obsessing about Mamoru, abandoning her duties as senshi for Mamoru, trying to kill herself for Mamoru. In season 2, once Mamoru gets his one attack, he ends up saving Sailor Moon from virtually all the forgettable one-shot villains from that arc. Once again Usagi spends a giant amount of time obsessing about Mamoru, being stupidly jealous of a 10 year old, suffering because Mamoru's brainwashed etc etc. Usagi only ever thinks about Mamoru. This has not been such a huge issue in S3, but it's still an annoying element b) A show with realized girl friendships at its core: There's nothing of this in Crystal because the Inners have no personalities or individual character development whatsoever. Besides, Usagi spends all the time thinking about Mamoru. During S2 she seemed almost unaffected by her "friends" getting captured, it wasn't until Mamoru was brainwashed that she started melting down. There are way too many moments in S3 in which Usagi plainly doesn't seem to care about the Inners, and even in the Infinity Maze the Inners were easily persuaded to abandon Usagi by Kaolinite's temptations. c) A positive representation of a lesbian couple and diverse gender identities (namely Haruka). The HarukaxMichiru thing hardly exists in this S3, it's barely hinted at in ep 1, but then it all becomes about Haruka's crush (platonic or otherwise) with Usagi. Besides, Haruka's gender identity that was supposed to be ambiguous turns out to be just a fake out to create interest, once it is revealed she's a girl she's never seen with men's clothing again. Crystal (and I guess Takeuchi's original work by extension) just failed to deliver on all these promises. Apparently what made Sailor Moon successful in the 90s was that the original anime wasn't a loyal adaptation of the manga. Honestly I doubt anyone would give this series the time of the day if the original anime hadn't made people so fond of these characters. Why manga fans were so eager for a faithful adaptation when, from what I hear, the 90s anime they so hate only improved the material and fixed some of its flaws is completely beyond me.
You're thinking Mononokehime/Princess Mononoke, the Ghibli film. Mononoke is an anime series from 2008 that aired in the noitaminA block. Kyousougiga came out in 2013. Both shows are recent and they have fantastic looks, Toei is perfectly capable of doing something great visually, they just choose not to. |
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merr
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Season 3 is light years ahead of what came before. No, it's not perfect, but I'll take it.
Echoing what others have said, Naoko's writing is where a lot of the problems emerge. The plots she came up with are great, but she cannot write natural characters or dialogue to save her life. Even in the manga, the inners have no personality outside the one chapter of focus they each get per arc. Characters constantly profess their devotion to Usagi and the Silver Millenium, but it makes no sense because the relationships feel so abbreviated. At times it almost seems like the other senshi support her only because destiny has brainwashed them into doing it. This gets worse in the Dream arc, but you also see it in Crystal Season 3 when the outers talk about being alone at the edge of the solar system and being comforted by the image of the queen and the princess. Why are they comforted? All we're told is that they love their rulers because that's what senshi do. It's a little creepy! In a perfect world, Toei would have doubled the episode count and hired someone to rework the story. It would be easy to keep the beats Naoko established while fleshing out the dialogue and motivations. What we got instead is fine (now), but it could have been so much more. |
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PumpkinMouse
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I absolutely agree with your comments on what Crystal failed to bring to the table vs. the legend of Sailor Moon, but I do want to address this bit since you haven't seen most of the 90s anime, and there were a lot of things it did that manga fans found irritating. I'll list the ones I've heard around the Internet and in conversation, but I'm sure there are others, and of course not every manga fan will have a problem with all (or any) of the points I'll be listing. These are just the things I've heard through the grapevine over the years. 1.) The art style of the manga and the 90s anime look almost nothing alike. Naoko Takeuchi's art style is very floaty, with large starry eyes, flowing hair, legs a mile long, thin ink lines, and lots of white ink. It has a very ephemeral look, and her characters usually look old for their age. The 90s anime has round-faced characters (whose faces get rounder or sharper depending on who's animating the episode), more normal body proportions, and far, far simpler eyes. It's like comparing the Magic Knight Rayearth manga art to a screencap from the anime. You can recognize the characters, but it loses a lot of the qualities that make CLAMP art, well, CLAMP. When you're starting with an art style that's so pretty, you're bound to have people disappointed with the 90s anime's decision to simplify everything. Crystal was a chance to get that prettiness back. 2.) Rei's personality. Rei in the 90s anime starts as a sassy jerk. She spends most of her time trying to steal Mamoru away from Usagi and getting into petty fights with her. She matures over the series, but she's generally the one snarkily pointing out Usagi's flaws. This is nothing like the "cool beauty" shrine maiden from the manga, and the constant bickering between Usagi and Rei can get annoying. 3.) Chibi Usa's personality. The 90s anime chose to emphasize Chibi Usa's childishness during the R arc, probably for greater sympathy for her while the Black Moon arc chased after her and Wiseman manipulated her into becoming Black Lady. Unfortunately, Chibi Usa doesn't do a lot of growing up until the Dream Arc, so there's a lot of episodes of her and Usagi bickering and fighting over Mamoru's attention. Her Pink Sugar Heart Attack is played as a joke, rather than an effective attack. 4.) Usagi's personality. The 90s anime also chose to emphasize Usagi's flaws more than the manga ever did. She was very much an everywoman (everygirl?) who would still be clumsy and a crybaby during fight scenes, and had to rely on her friends' help to beat monsters, though she would always rise to the occasion when the season finale rolled around. Manga readers who were expecting a more mature and capable Sailor Moon were in for something of a shock, and though the 90s anime's Usagi does eventually grow out of her flaws, she's not as consistently capable or mature as her manga-counterpart. 5.) Mamoru's age. For some unknown reason, in the 90s anime, Mamoru is a college student. This was...weird, to say the least, and maybe a little uncomfortable when you think too hard about it. 6.) Mamoru is useless. Mamoru has even less to do in the 90s anime than in the manga. All he ever does is shoot roses at the monster-of-the-week from on high, spout something like "Be gone, evil monster!" and tell Usagi to attack. That, or get kidnapped or brainwashed by the bad guys. Also, he gets sidelined hard in Sailor Moon S, because Ikuhara did not like Mamoru. 7.) The 90s anime had less mature themes than the manga. In the manga, the villains killed people, either directly or with their monsters-of-the-week. Usagi attempted or contemplated suicide as a viable option. I think there's also an implied blood splatter in the manga. None of this shows up in the 90s anime. People expecting a more 70s shoujo teen drama approach were disappointed with the 90s anime's made-for-kids stance 8.) Filler. So much filler. The 90s anime ran for exactly 200 episodes, so there was a lot of filler. Multiple monster-of-the-week episodes with no forward progress on the plot, goofy episodes that existed just to be silly, a whole mini-arc where the entire main cast except for Usagi was brainwashed to forget their time together as friends and Senshi, and another mini-arc about two aliens trying to understand love while feeding human energy to a giant evil tree. I personally liked some of the filler, but if you'd read the manga and were eagerly anticipating this or that scene, it can be frustrating to slog through all the filler just to get to the good parts. 9.) The final season is nothing like the manga's final arc. Between the Sailor Starlights transforming from men into women*, Chibi-Chibi not being what she is in the manga, and whole chunks of the manga's finale just missing wholesale from the 90s anime, there's a lot here for manga fans to get mad at the 90s anime. I won't spoil things for people who haven't seen it, but suffice to say that as much as the 90s anime differs from the current Crystal season, that's nothing compared to the differences between Sailor Moon Stars and the Star Arc. *I don't have an issue with the 90s anime's take on the Sailor Starlights, but Naoko Takeuchi was very, very clear that all Senshi must be female, no exceptions, and apparently was very unhappy with the changes the 90s anime made to the Sailor Starlights. Besides these points, there are also a bunch of little changes that the 90s anime made to Sailor Moon, like Hotaru not being a cyborg, or not killing off her dad, or the origin story for the Black Moon clan. I still prefer the 90s anime, flaws and all, but I can absolutely see why some manga fans were unhappy with what the 90s anime gave us. Also, for all my issues with Crystal, I'll probably stick around for the next two seasons of Crystal, assuming they get made. I'm looking forward to a streamlined Dreams Arc with a Chibi Usa I actually like, more Sailor Saturn, and no more rapey vibes from the bad guys. And as for the Stars Arc, apart from even more Sailor Saturn, I'm also looking forward to seeing spoiler[Sailor Cosmos]. I know she doesn't do much, but she's just so pretty!
I'm also holding out for a full Sailor Saturn transformation.
Last edited by PumpkinMouse on Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:08 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Fallenmessiahx
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I heard a lot about this. I always assumed that in the anime they were just "psychical disguises" while on earth and they were never actually men. On their home planets they were born women and are always women. I know in the manga they just cross dress and they never change their physical bodies. |
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CrowLia
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@PumpkinMouse Thanks for the response, I can see why some of those points would make people wish for a better adaptation. Particularly the bit about the final arc, or the excessive fillers, and Mamoru's age certainly sounds like a weird change to make. I totally get the art thing, although Takeuchi's art isn't my cup of tea, I was endlessly frustrated when the Tsubasa Chronicles anime wasn't able to capture the beauty of CLAMP's drawings, so I can understand. And changing the Starlights' genders sounds like a problem too, I've heard one of them actively flirts with Usagi, maybe they were trying to make it less lesbian with Ikuhara gone? As an avid watcher of long-running shonens, I can also understand people getting annoyed by endless fillers.
Some of those grievances, though, I honestly don't get. I'd take sassy Rei over no-personality Rei any day, a thousand times. In fact, given how little I like Usagi, that there is a character to question her leadership skills and whip her back to form when she gets too crybaby sounds like a good thing to me. As for Usagi I remember I detested her in the Super S arc, which was the only one I watched, her personality was insufferable. I just don't think Takeuchi's/Crystal's version of flawless, can-do-no-wrong, unquestionable, universally beloved just because she's the protagonist, never challenged on the bullshit she does is any better. A middle ground would've been great. I honestly don't mind Mamoru being useless. Female love interests in older shonen manga tend to be pretty useless too. Look at the girls from Parasyte. I love the idea of a reversal of roles and having him become the dude-in-distress. I'd take that over him saving Sailor Moon's ass twenty times during the Black Moon arc. Chibiusa is probably the one aspect of Crystal that I think has been done well (funnily, by making Usagi a terrible future mom who neglects her child for centuries), so if she's terrible in the 90s anime I can see why people would be upset. As for the mature themes, I honestly don't see the appeal in a female empowering heroine trying to kill herself because her boyfriend is brainwashed (he's not even dead). I don't know if this part of the first arc was kept in the 90s, but it felt like a terribly stupid writing decision, and very jarring when you'd just heard "Moon Pride" a few minutes ago. Hotaru being a cyborg was honestly meaningless? Like what was even the point of making her so? I see nothing lost for the character or the story by omitting that aspect |
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PumpkinMouse
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Yeah, you can definitely interpret it as a kind of 'glamour' disguise, which I actually think is smart--why would you suspect that the male idols are the three female Starlights--but it feels a little repetitive after Haruka, honestly. I prefer the Princess Tutu and PreCure approach where voice inflections and hair colors change, though I admit it's a little unfair to say that about Sailor Moon when both of those shows came after it.
Yeah, Seiya--the Starlight you're thinking of--likes to tease and flirt with Usagi, but Seiya and Usagi starting to form a relationship is canon to the manga, though the details differ between the anime and the manga. Mamoru is gone for nearly the entire run of the Stars Arc, so I actually see Seiya as more of a stand-in for the missing Mamoru. Seiya's relationship with Usagi mirrors a lot of Haruka's relationship with Usagi in the manga. I also like some of the things that the 90s anime changed. Rei's constant bickering makes for an incredibly effective scene during the first season's finale that couldn't have worked with a more calm and collected Rei, and I like the dynamic between Rei and Usagi that emerges from their friendship, even if the arguing can get annoying. It's much more palatable once Rei stops chasing after Mamoru. I also think it was smart to give Mamoru a lesser role to raise the importance of the girls' teamwork and friendship. Speaking of which, the girls tend to do a lot more gentle poking at Usagi's and each other's flaws as the series goes on, which I find charming and a fun indicator of their strength of their friendship, as well as an acknowledgment that Usagi's not the only one with flaws. Unfortunately for Sailor Moon Super S, everyone's characterization except for Chibi Usa either stagnated or took a nose-dive. There was some kind of mandate where the team had to make Sailor Moon suddenly more kid-friendly to boost ratings, because the fanbase was growing up and moving on, so everything is suddenly a lot goofier and slapstick and pink, and the show became laser-focused on Chibi Usa at the expense of everyone else's character growth--which is not to say there was no character growth, just less than what one would expect from previous seasons' experience. But I'll also admit that there were definitely times during my Sailor Moon machete-run where I wanted to shake Usagi and go "Why haven't you grown past this yet?! We're in the triple digits, darn it!"
The 90s anime had a very different reaction for Usagi when Mamoru is brainwashed. If you don't mind spoilers: spoiler[Usagi actually attacks Mamoru with her Moon Rod, though she's very reluctant to do so. She eventually uses the star-shaped pocket watch Mamoru gave her earlier to remind him of his love for her and snap him out his brainwashing. Beryl then attacks Usagi, but Mamoru shields her and dies. The Senshi have already died to protect her, so she takes Mamoru's death pretty hard, but decides not to kiss him out of respect for her friends--who all died before they could experience love--and goes on to face Beryl alone]. The non-spoiler version is that Usagi grieves for Mamoru and her friends, but decides to face Beryl alone anyway to honor their memories. Naturally, everyone's alive again by the end of the season.
This is pretty consistent for how Usagi handles season finales in the 90s anime--she's not a great fighter, and she needs the support of her friends, but when the chips are down and she's the only one left standing, she's fully capable of doing what needs to be done. I like this version of Usagi better than the ever-capable Manga!Usagi--she feels more like an ordinary girl struggling to be a hero. However, I have to add that I've heard rumors that Naoko Takeuchi originally intended for her manga to be a tragedy, and to end with the first arc. It's difficult to say when the decision was made to continue the Sailor Moon manga, so we can't know if Naoko Takeuchi had the time to change Usagi's suicide or not. There are definitely implications in side panels in the manga and elsewhere that she didn't expect the anime to take her illustration of Black Lady's outfit and make it canon (or at least, that she expected the dress slit to be lower) and that Helios' outfit was a rush job because the anime needed concept art, so some issues can be chalked up to rushing to meet anime deadlines. Knowing that, though, doesn't really change my issues with some of the manga's plot lines. Last edited by PumpkinMouse on Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:44 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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Sailor Sedna
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@CrowLia
Oh, I see what you mean. 
Yeah, it's like they're just putting not as much effort as they did back then. From what I know of, I think the reason why Usagi appears insufferable in SuperS is because SuperS was focused too much on humor, she's much better in the other arcs. She didn't even kill herself over her boyfriend turning evil in Classic, spoiler[he ended up dying (she turned him back to normal with a music box Endymion had given to her in the past that Tuxedo Mask also had dropped in I believe episode 25, where Jupiter appeared and Moon got her Moon Stick) and she was about to kiss him, but the Inners had died before her and she didn't because she felt it wouldn't be fair since they never got to kiss the ones they loved.] @PumpkinMouse Good points, but if I may express my thoughts on them (just what I think): 1) Even though the art style of the two may not be alike, I think both are awesome and beautiful. 2) I actually preferred Rei in the anime to Rei in the manga. Rei was cool in the first act of the manga, but lost my interest as the arcs progressed until Dream. Also, I feel Rei and Usagi's bickering is a bit more realistic, as in the manga it's like they perfect get along most of the time...most of the time, when Rei acted sassy, to me she was frustrated at Usagi's clumsiness and immaturity and tried to keep her on her feet. 3) Both Chibi-Usas are fine with me, although I think the bickering over Mamoru happened mostly in SuperS, sometimes in R and S only. I thought her Pink Sugar Heart Attack was kinda effective in S, it was more of a joke in Season III honestly. 4) I prefer anime Usagi. I'm sorry, but Usagi in the manga looking at it now, while I still do like her, becomes more and more too perfect/Mary Sue-like to me as it goes on, losing all the flaws that made her character. And to be honest, her maturity doesn't even feel realistic also, it's like she suddenly lost her crybaby self in the manga, snap! After act 3, and Crystal made her practically perfectness even worse. It was used for humor in the anime, and naturally she matured more. She did cry less as the series went on though, and sometimes she could fight by herself at times if I remember correctly, even if she did need help from her friends at times. 5) I've heard that the relationship in Classic between Usagi and Mamoru was a 5 year age gap but it was never portrayed as creepy. 6) I never heard that Ikuhara didn't like/hated Mamoru, I did hear that he joked about him a lot. Mamoru actually got brainwashed more in the manga than in the anime, three times in the manga, and once or twice in the anime. But he was able to free himself in the R movie and save Moon once. But then again, I heard he's not meant to stand out... 7) The 90's anime had blood in it too at times, and could be mature and even dark. Even SuperS had disturbing parts with it... 8) I always hear people complain about filler and I could understand, but I never minded it (minus a few episodes I considered bad), I see most of the filler as character focus episodes. I also prefer the anime's pace to the manga as honestly the manga moves way too fast and doesn't take the time to establish the characters or just rushes the story/concepts, whilst the anime not only fleshed out the characters and made them powerful warriors, it helped give more time for the story to develop and play out. Also, it was so the manga could go ahead of the anime, though they did rush Stars believe it or not (it doesn't look or feel rushed, but it finished before the manga). 9) The thing with the Starlights is the only thing I heard Naoko was very angry at. Comparing the two versions of the arc, both have their pluses and minuses. SPOILERS BELOW: spoiler[The manga version of the arc, for pros, has the Sailors with their Eternal forms, did a great final battle, did a good job with world-building and had more powerful villains, and other Sailor Soldiers too like the Quartet, but for the cons, Naoko just killed off most of the cast very quickly, invalidated the previous arc which had them coming together, Usagi doesn't really develop that too much if I recall, the ending was kinda confusing, and Luna, Artemis and Diana's deaths...just.............no (that was horrible and painful to look at, but then again it's probably the animal lover in me)! The anime version, for pros, developed the Starlights (whom for some reason I see more as male Sailor Soldiers), Inners, and Moon, better characterized the Sailor Animates, but for cons, underplayed the Outer Senshi, no Chibi Moon/Sailor Quartet, only Moon gets Eternal, the whole worldbuilding is gone, no Sailor Kakyuu, Sailor Cosmos.] Like I said before, I felt Hotaru being a cyborg really didn't add anything to the plot or add any impact on the story, I'm also surprised no one's upset at her dad for being practically abusive in the manga/Crystal, and honestly the whole Black Moon thing was done better in the anime. I do understand why manga fans did get mad though seeing the changes, but I do wish they also wouldn't insult us if we've got different opinions. 
I do hope season 4 of Crystal will be awesome, looking back on the manga, Dead Moon was the best out of all the manga arcs! I do agree also, sometimes the girls would playfully tease Usagi, can't understand why some people think they were terrible friends to her! |
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whiskeyii
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It really depends on who you talk to. Manga!Rei (I can never remember if you read the manga or not) did have a personality, though it wasn't often highlighted, that painted her as an elegant, cool-headed young lady, someone that the others seemed to aspire to, aside from Ami's brains. I guess to put it in perspective, it'd be like if Fuu and Umi of Magic Knight Rayearth switched personalities but kept the same names. Though it was probably an attempt to make Mars feel a little closer to her element of fire, there's precious little of the Manga!Rei left. Personally, I prefer Classic!Rei for the reasons you listed above, but elegant characters usually don't much for me anyways. ^^;
You'll probably be very happy to know that Classic's Season 1 finale is entirely different from the manga. No suicide involved. ^^; It's probably what the writers for Moon Pride had in mind when they wrote that song, because yeah, for a show that didn't know if it'd get another season, they pretty much just went "Eh, screw it. Let's do this our way!" and went for full "girl powah!" levels. And yeah, over the years people have kind of side-eyed that suicide plot. On a thematic level, I guess it makes sense since Naoko was riffing hard on all kinds of fairy tales and myths (Greek/Roman mythology, Sleeping Beauty, etc.), so at best guess, she threw Romeo and Juliet into the mix to match the mythic qualities of the rest of her arc. But I think most of us are at an age where we're more inclined to roll our eyes or stare in horror at the thought of a lover's suicide, rather than sigh dreamily, thankfully. ^^; As for the sciency-bits, well, I heard a rumor a long time ago that Naoko majored in some hard sciences, so she liked to incorporate technology and scientific concepts into her works, even if they didn't amount to much thematically. I think a lot of the villains have scientific names that get explained in the translator's notes of Kondansha's versions. |
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PumpkinMouse
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6) I don't know if he ever said he "hated" Mamoru, but I definitely remember reading somewhere that he preferred focusing on the lesbian aspect of Haruka and Michiru over the heterosexual romance with Mamoru. I'd have to go digging to figure out where I read that, but I think he said he found lesbian romances more interesting than heterosexual ones. 7) Wait, there was blood in the 90s anime? 
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Sailor Sedna
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@PumpkinMouse
I see, that's very interesting. I should read more about Ikuhara... Yes, there's blood in there. spoiler[When Mamoru is stabbed in the R movie, in Stars, Haruka's hand bleeds when a piece of glass hits it, blood comes from Galaxia in the last two episodes. I'm guessing there could have been a bit of it in the episode in S with Jupiter fighting Uranus (when both of them injure their hands), Nephrite is bleeding a green sort of blood when he dies, Jupiter seems to have some on her face when she dies, Uranus gets her shoulder cut twice in S, and though I'm not sure if this counts, when Mars kills a Mirror Paredorie pretending to be Nehellenia, you can see a hole in its body after Mars releases her Flame Sniper...] It's not as bloody as Saint Seiya though, my God, Saint Seiya, while awesome, is so bloody a vampire would be drooling a waterfall. 
Just wondering, do you agree with my other points? Just curious. |
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SailorNaruto
 Posts: 195 Location: Illinois, USA |
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Now this is freaky. I'm a fan of the manga and you pretty much nailed all of my points lol. I love the 90s anime, but people tend to overhype far too much and disregard the manga. There are a lot of aspects in the manga that were left out of the 90s anime that make me favor it just a tad more than I do the 90s anime. 1. Naoko's drawings are absolutely beautiful. While the 90s anime doesn't really look like the manga, that's never really bothered me. I guess I never really thought it was all that important. 2. God yes. I don't know if they intended to make her this way, but Rei is a serious B in the original anime. Almost like Regina George from Mean Girls. If anything she's a Mary Sue. I also never really cared for how she's boy crazy like the rest of them, which is in stark contrast to her manga counterpart, who doesn't trust men and has no desire to date or get married. 3. Yeah, if the goal was to make Chibi-Usa one of most annoying and hated anime characters in history, mission accomplished. She had her bratty and annoying side in the manga as well, but it was severely toned down compared to her anime counterpart. She's also a hell of a lot more likeable. 4. Same with Usagi. In the manga she grew out of her crybaby attitude rather quickly. She's also a lot more capable and mature than her anime counterpart. 5. Why they felt the need to make Mamoru almost pedo like I'll never know or understand. A 20 year old college student? Dating a 14 year old junior high girl? Really? That's why I loved that Crystal restored him to his rightful 18 year old high school self. He's still a little older than her, but the age gap is no where near as extreme as it was in the 90s anime. 6. My God yes. Poor Mamoru cannot catch a break between bring virtually powerless and getting kidnapped and brainwashed left, right, upside down, and sideways. He's practically a wallflower most of the time. At least in the manga he had some powers aside from giving bad speeches and throwing roses. 7. This is debatable. The 90s anime had its mature moments. The latter part of the first season for example. When spoiler[ the senshi die fighting the DD girls.] At the time I had only ever watched the Dic dub where we all know butchered the season 1 finale all to hell. And when I finally discovered and watched the uncut version, I was completely takes aback by it. Anyway, the latter part of the first season, the 3rd season Infinity, and the 5th season Stars were very mature in my book. 8. Eh. I like long series so the filler never bothered me. In start contrast how I feel about Naruto Shippuden. The filler in that is complete hell and I hate it with a passion . But this is about Sailor Moon so I won't go into detail about Naruto.
9. Yeah. The Stars arc of the manga is worlds better than its anime counterpart. So many changes were made, characters were cut, genders were changes, the overall plot was entirely different. I don't hate the anime version, but it greatly lacks in detail, plot, and setting compared to it the manga version. Regardless, I love all versions of Sailor Moon. The classic anime, the manga, and Crystal. I don't much care for the live action PGSM though. It's kind of awkward. Last edited by SailorNaruto on Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PumpkinMouse
Posts: 80 |
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@Sailor Sedna:
Now that you mention it, I remember the scene with Nephrite. I'd forgotten about the R movie and Stars as well--it's been years since I've seen the movie, and Stars never stuck with me quite as much as the other seasons. Also, fair warning, Ikuhara can be maddeningly vague and even a little trollish when he wants to be. Reading up on him may be a little frustrating. ^^; Funny, I was just about to edit my post above to include the others, but then you asked! So, to answer your question: Naoko Takeuchi's art style is beautiful in still frames and splash pages, and the 90s anime's art style is exactly what it needs to be for an anime--simple enough to animate, complex enough to convey meaning. I kinda' wish Ikuko Itoh had been the animation director for all the episodes, but that would've been too much for any one person to handle alone. I just really like her art style. >.> (Luckily Princess Tutu exists to fill that void!  )
I think Mamoru being a college student in a relationship with a 14-year-old girl was a little strange (why is he not interested in a girl closer to his age?) but as far as execution goes, there's nothing wrong with their relationship. It's just strange if you apply real-world logic to it. Anime!Chibi Usa is much better in Japanese (compared to the old dub) and not always childish--her best character growth is in Sailor Moon Super S, after all--but I prefer the more mature attitude of Crystal!Chibi Usa. Apart from that, I agree with all your other statements, so there's not much to say on that end. I think a mix between the Stars Arc (higher stakes, a better final battle) and Sailor Moon Stars (stronger character growth) is my ideal final season, but I'm not sure if we're going to get that.
Also, I want to point out that, even though I made that giant list of reasons why a manga fan would dislike or even hate the 90s anime, I don't necessarily agree with all of them, I'm just listing them. Frankly, I love the Doom Tree filler arc to pieces, Anime!Rei is a breath of fresh air once she stops stalking Mamoru, Sailor Moon S is better for its changes, and 200 episodes over 5 seasons gives a lot of wiggle room for much-needed character development, though I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for balking at watching all 200 episodes and just skipping a few here and there.  But Usagi can be annoying sometimes and character growth is uneven and sometimes gets reset at the beginning of a season. As with most anime, there are things I like and things I dislike about it, and that's totally fine with me.
@Sailor Naruto: Well, I was pulling from personal experience and conversations, so I'd hope it's at least a halfway decent list. Still, it's nice to have some validation from an actual manga fan.
I also tried to watch the new musicals and the live-action TV series, but I didn't get very far. There's definitely good things about them, but they both take a decent adjustment period. |
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Fallenmessiahx
Posts: 116 Location: Denver colorado |
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I still think the 90's version could use the "Dragon Ball Kai" treatment and have the 200 episode count reduced quite a bit. Still have some filler episodes but only the important or good ones. The episode of the fat cat that was in love with Luna in S1 was total filler but such an amazing episode!
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#838774
Posts: 158 |
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It is totally generic. That doesn't mean it's bad, I quite like Sailor Moon and it's probably my favorite magical girl series. But objectively speaking from a writing standpoint, it's a weak series. The writer contradicts herself and devotes an impressive amount of time to vaguely giving the illusion of depth and structure to the story while avoiding any level of solid world building. Pop culture relevance does not supersede writing, pacing, character development, etc etc. I can totally understand how a person would be pumped up and let down by this series because it's something you had to be "in the moment" for.
Pretty much. Many whimsical things work in a manga that don't really stand up to analysis in an anime. While I was able to read the manga many times and bathe in the beautiful artwork, those same scenes translated literally by Toei were embarrassingly bad. I think Takeuchi's whimsical and beautiful art gave the series a sort of dreamy embellishment that allowed us to overlook the flaws in the story. There is a huge percentage of people when it comes to any sort of adaptation who strongly oppose the idea that the source material can be flawed, too. I've watched/read/appreciated almost every variant of Sailor Moon available from the musicals to the manga. My greatest wish for Crystal was for it not to be bound by the diehard manga purists and for it to have been a bridge between the classic anime and the spirit of the manga. Well, maybe next time. |
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