Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Danganronpa 3: The End of Hope's Peak High School: Future Arc
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wolf10
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What you felt when you thought a character died still matters. Wanting people to stay dead just so your grieving isn't "wasted" is a really unfortunate problem with audiences these days. That's the last I'm saying of it, and I still think it could go either way.
Actually, that could even become a character beat for her: having to choose between pretending to stay dead or revealing herself to Naegi at the risk of "undoing" his current emotional state. (Personally, I don't like how unintentionally close he's gotten to Munakata. He's basically decided that sacrifices are okay because that's how people entrust their hope to him.) |
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justsomeaccount
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I think you should watch more Shonen series, because from the beginning of time until nowadays they've been abusing of fake deaths like crazy, Fairy Tail and One Piece are famous by using it more than 10 or 20 times, to the point it gets tiresome and lazy, just a way of trying to bring some cheap drama or hook and then dismiss it and having no consequences whatsoever and keep the status quo. Again, it can be done right, but it's easy to fudge up and feel like a cop out and it's not a minor kind of plot device that one can used frequently in a story, it's not "audience miseducated", it's "audience tired of this trick and want to see it done well and effective, not just because", and DR doesn't make me feel it's a good example of this with Aoi's and this one or that they are going to have a dramatic weight once it's resolved to either Makoto or Kyoko, that's why I'm criticizing it.
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15457 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I was confused about what the book meant, like why would Aoi if she was Chisa want to reveal who the real culprit is based on Kirigiri's notes. But I had the thought that it would make more sense if Chisa planted the book as to do a fake reveal of who the culprit is so that the blame could be on someone else. And Kirigiri has to pretend that she is dead to catch Chisa out on her plan that she is the real culprit. It is not just an act of a cheap copout in making the audience feel a certain way, but a plot to reveal the truth that requires somewhat fooling the audience. I think that there might even be a chance when Naegi touched the blood that he could see that she is pretending so he was trusting her by going on, but it does seem unlikely from his reactions.
If it is all true the fake out death prank might have known and was poking fun at the truth. |
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Tanteikingdomkey
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There are actually very few twist for ending dangan ronpa 3 that I would hate at this point and would actually make me rage....BUT CHIAKI BEING THE MASTERMIND would be my NUMBER 1 rage inducing moment.
If for no other reason then there is no actual evidence/build up to support such a Hugely sharp 180 on her character, Atleast with nagi you could make an argument for it and there is some stuff you could pull to make it work better but seriously leave the poor girl alone and let her rest in peace! |
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Guus van Voorst
Posts: 20 |
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Pretty sure the intro of the despair arc indicates that Chiaki never really fell into despair because she kept her trust in her friends...
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Renasviel
Posts: 143 |
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I agree with justsomeaccount on the fake outs. There is nothing inherently wrong with them, if they're done well. The problem with it in this case was that the first one was really cheap, and by having one you've already set a precedent. Then we have all the build up to an actual death, and if it turns out to be another fake out, then all that set up has gone to waste because no one really bought it. The series has gone out of his way to try and make us believe one has actually died, and in this respect it has failed. It's all well and good saying "oh, but the emotion you felt was still real and genuine before it was shown to be fake", but the issue is that emotion wasn't there because I never believed she was dead, and my only reason for believing she is now is that it would seem very silly to me to have spent all this time trying to lead to something only to not lead to it.
Regardless of how it's done or how it plays out, if it is a fake out then it suggests to me that they don't know how to write a compelling cliffhanger without relying on shock value and have to use fake outs as a way to build intensity into the finale. I'm not saying this would ruin the whole of 3, but it definitely works as a detriment, because in the end in trying to remove the sense that the DR1 cast has plot armour they've only reinforced it. Fairy Tail is a great example of it done poorly, it's done in nearly every arc to the point where now people not only expect it to be a fake out, they expect a fake out to occur. It's lazy and tiresome as a result. It's not at that level with Danganronpa, but something has to give. If the endgame of the series is that the DR1 cast are all well and good and back to normal, then why even bother with pulling this not once but twice? It shows a lack of self awareness for the series, because everyone I believe went into this not expecting the DR1 cast to be in danger of dying, so to try and fail to convince people that they may actually die, only to turn around and show that none of them died in the end, isn't an example of a good twist, it's an example of a series playing out according to expectations having tried to run against them. I don't think anyone would be complaining if the series had just played it straight, which leaves the only real need for these fake outs are to create some shock value and nothing more impactful than that, which is cheap and lazy. Aside from that I'm not too worried about the conclusion. I've already settled with the idea that this is well below the games in terms of quality, but oddly the thing I am worried about are the animation and production values. I don't know if it was just me, but the animation in this episode felt really choppy and slow, and I'm hoping it doesn't go full Wizard Barristers in its budget costs and end up showing part of the conclusion off screen because they need to save frames. In all seriousness, as long as the blu rays look better it shouldn't be a problem, but it was a little painful to see Munakata's walking animations at parts here. I suppose that's the consequence of a smallish budget stretching two one cour shows within the space of 12 weeks. |
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wolf10
Posts: 901 |
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After this week's Despair, I really want Sakakura to still be alive somehow. Sorry, Kyoko.
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Marimo0
Posts: 186 |
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Neat that we got to see spoiler[the rest of the victims of DR1 (minus Mukuro), even if only Sayaka got a speaking role. Some may nitpick that Celes' death wasn't due to being burnt but by hit with a firetruck, but I don't think that part would've been conveyed well without it looking silly, like a giant firetruck suddenly appearing. Mondo's is ridiculous enough as there's probably no other way to represent how he died besides turning him into butter.]
And Munakata was totally right from earlier in the series. spoiler[Makoto was able to get out of being restrained with his luck by conveniently flailing next to some rebar.]
spoiler[Well you got that, at least for a while.] So after this episode, I've been doing some thinking on the numbers. spoiler[At this point, I'm pretty positive Chisa was killed in the first episode. The conditions of her death seem the same, and I don't think that was a fake Chisa after Kyoko's search. However that would mean she died instantly, or at least before everyone else woke up. In that case, the opening for the second episode saying that there are 15 survivors should mean that there are 16 people it's keeping count off, just like it indicated in the first episode's opening. So that means Hagakure is being counted... or there's an unknown sixteenth survivor, the mastermind, and Hagakure's appearance in the opening is just a red herring. He's not mean to hide whether or not he's supposed to be included and if someone thought dead is actually alive, he's supposed to hide that there definitely is another person being included before they're properly introduced. But how to interpret episode 10's counter, with 6 survivors? If it's Hagakure being counted, then the counter exists for outside of the game's rules and it just meant for the audience. In that case, it's definitely referring to only Makoto, Asahina, Mitarai, Munakata, Sakakura (at that episode's time) and Hagakure and Kyoko is definitely dead. If it's counting the mastermind, then it could either be literally counting who's survived, or that number could be based on what the bracelets register. The bracelets can't be used to count people if the sixteenth is Hagakure since he's not wearing one. If it's literally, then the numbers are referring to the same people, just substitute Hagakure with the mastermind. However it could be based on the bracelets, and those may be subject to error. Makoto, Asahina, Mitarai, Munakata, and the mastermind are 5, so is it referring to Kyoko or Sakakura as the sixth? I suppose what it means all depends on when Sakakura cut off his hand, and this may be why episode 11 skipped doing the opening. When he cut it off, that would probably be when game would consider him dead and not when he actually died. If it was episode 9, then that would mean Kyoko would still be registered as alive in 10. However the last we saw of him he passed out shortly before the next time everyone was put to sleep, and the episode ended only a bit after everyone was allowed to be awake. Seems like he wouldn't have enough time to wake up from his stab, cut off his hand, and bandage his stump in the short time before being put to sleep again, especially without bleeding out earlier than when he actually did, but Danganronpa characters can sometimes act superhuman so he may very well have. If it was during episode 10 that he cut off his hand, then Kyoko would definitely be registered dead. But with my argument, I supposed I can't count out the possibility that Kyoko could still live even if her bracelet is declaring her dead. There's always the chance that she did take some sort of antidote, and she's currently just recovering from some half-dead state. The bracelet either registers her life signals as close enough dead, or once it's administered its poison it just automatically assumes the person is dead.] spoiler[Still, I'm not sure who could be the mastermind. Especially if now we have to think of Tengan as a Remnant of Despair as well. I don't think he's the mastermind or the one who actually sent Mitarai a message. Hmm. We may get a clue in Despair episode 11, just like how it informed us on the brainwashing videos.] |
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justsomeaccount
Posts: 471 |
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^ I was frustrated of having to express my confusion about the body count (whether it considers brazalets or not, if it considers Gekkogahara, if Hiro is included or not, if Chisa died or not, it's supposed to be trustful or just to the audience, if Kyoko is alive or not, if she's alive is in the counter or not because of the poison, etc.) so thanks for covering most of the points
 . My conclusion about it all is... I'll wait for the final episode because there's too many variables for me to handle, I'll see if the next and last one makes everything coherent.
btw Tengan is not a Remnant of Despair, he directly answered that to Munakata before dying, spoiler[unless Munakata says he's a Remnant meaning "he planned all this" I don't know why he's saying that.] But that Tengan isn't good is a given, after all if he would have just straight up told who was the "attackers" and how this whole situation wouldn't have happened, even how he told Munakata about it was almost meant to confuse him and think everybody was nuts. He's probably an accomplice spoiler[(and since Monokuma's video seems recorded, maybe it was done before Junko died? will we see it in Despair Arc's last eps?)] but not the only one, and I think spoiler[he's probably dead and someone is taking his mobile, hard to think his death was a fakeout.] Good episode, though I wonder how are they going to wrap up everything in Future Arc in just 25 minutes: spoiler[them escaping the base, the real mastermind and the purpose of all that (since the monitors kill the closest one, we can assume this was not done to keep Munakata and Makoto alive, and that also means if Munakata died Chisa would too and her plans would be aborted so I doubt she's alive), Tengan, Ryota's arc and role, Jabberwock Island and the Remnants of Despair, Byakuya and Hiro after the explosion, and what will be the conclusive note.] It's too much to pack in an episode of a series that for the most part goes with a calmed pacing even in these last episodes. That also makes me think there's no going to be any more crazy twists that would take a lot of time to process their dramatic effect spoiler[(for example, Aoi being Chisa)]. |
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John Thacker
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Conversely, doesn't it seem like there's not really enough material left in the Despair Arc for two more episodes? Perhaps some of the things you want to be wrapped up in the Future Arc will be covered in the last Despair Arc episodes. Last edited by John Thacker on Wed Sep 21, 2016 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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justsomeaccount
Posts: 471 |
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^ I'm not sure if it's one or two episode left for Despair Arc, is there some confirmation? One would think Future would be the last one, especially since there's not much else to tell on Despair. But I don't know, maybe it will stop being on the past and timejump to the present. But if it doesn't, the only subplot they could resolve would be, I think, Junko giving Chisa/Tengan the recorded brainwashing video and their motivations so they don't have to elaborate that in the Future Arc last episode; the rest (Jabberwock, Ryota, etc.) I think it's inevitable that they are treated mostly in Future Arc, and I hope it does it right and it doesn't feel rushed.
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John Thacker
Posts: 1006 |
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The official Japanese site for Danganronpa 3 lists 12 episodes for both arcs. (FUNimation also lists the first episode of the Future Arc as "episode 13" of Danganronpa 3, which is annoying as it really should be in broadcast order.) The DVDs are separate for the Despair and Future Arcs, and have 2 episodes each, 12 DVDs in all. The Blu-Rays box sets have 6 episodes, three from each arc. That the DVDs are entirely separated based on series seems to make it unlikely that there's a twist of the 12th Despair Arc episode being a timejump, though I guess they could say that "this episode in the future showing what happens to the Remnants counts as Despair Arc because the Despair Arc is about them." (A timejump would also make FUNimation's non-interleaved episode ordering even worse of a presentation of the series than it already is.) Perhaps there has been speculation that the 12th Despair Arc episode would be some kind of OVA / side story in the middle. It's possible that some of Ryota could be dealt with in the Despair Arc, though I agree not all of it. |
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ThatGuyWhoLikesThings
Posts: 1008 |
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I think Chisa could still be the mastermind without her being alive. The game seems designed to automate itself without the need of anyone directly monitoring or controlling it's progress. The mastermind could be dead from minute one and the killing game would still go on without a hitch.
The "Aoi from episode 3 on is actually Chisa" is interesting though. I was thinking of going back and paying attention to anything Aoi said that sounded off or something that Chisa wouldn't know, but Chisa watched the second killing game unfold and handles information-gathering in the FF, so she probably knows enough about Aoi to pull off a convincing enough impersonation. That begs the question of why she would help everyone with figuring out the "attacker's" method of killing. If she wasn't on their side, why would she bring it to everyone's attention? Watching the victims go crazy and kill themselves was kinda rough on me though. It seems like, while the video compels them to commit suicide, it's ultimately up to each individual viewer how they off themselves. Which means it actually was Ruruka's own decision to mutilate and torture herself to death. Poor girl must've had a crazy amount of self-loathing. |
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theNightster
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spoiler[surprised Kyoko was killed off seeing how she was Danganronpa 1's main heroine, then again that also didn't stop Chiaki from the second game getting killed either]
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doubleO7
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To add to the confusion, some fans noticed that some Japanese TV guides aren't listing a 12th episode of Despair, instead listing some kind of DR-themed "special programming" which makes it sound like one of those promotional voice actor interview/variety shows. I believe this is where the "it might only be 11 episodes" line of thinking came from. This could mean a couple things. It could just be a mistake, I suppose. They could have preemptively delayed it, anticipating production issues with the intention of rescheduling it's broadcast for a later date, saving it for some kind of event, or by simply making it a de-facto "home video exclusive" episode. Another theory I've seen pop up recently is that, realizing Future's finale needed more breathing room than Despair, they changed the 12th episode of Despair into a 13th episode of Future, thereby making Despair only 11 episodes long as the earlier rumors suggested, with this change in production perhaps not happening until after those initial episode counts were revealed. Not sure how plausible that last one is, but it's still an interesting possibility to consider.
While I'm not on board with the "Chisa is Aoi" theory, your question isn't too hard to answer. This came up in the finale of DR1. They found it odd that Junko had thrown them a couple bones, despite it increasing the likelihood of her plans being brought to a screeching halt. Basically, what's more Despair-inducing than your elaborate, years-in-the-making plans completely falling to ruin? Junko (and likely, all the Despairs) gets off on that kind of thing, so while their plans going smoothly would be nice too, it's not unreasonable that the mastermind (assuming that they've fallen to Despair, whoever it may be) set things up so that there was at least a small chance of someone smart enough piecing everything together and putting a stop to their plans, thereby letting them experience the soul-crushing Despair brought on by everything they've been working towards falling to pieces. Success or failure, either one is a win in it's own way, at least that's how Junko saw it. |
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