Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Are Anime Conventions So Expensive?
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Well, what I mean is that I know hotels in the area around a convention center will get sky-high, especially with a major event going on. However, at AX, I can say that I have rarely ever spent more than $20 per day on food, and I don't pack any along myself. Rather, I eat at least one meal per day at the food trucks across the street, which, while still on the pricey side, is maybe $8 to $12 per meal. I usually eat one other meal somewhere else--as I can drive, I most often head down south along Figueroa St. where there are some fast food restaurants that stay open well into the night, at least midnight, where I can get something between $5 and $8, less if I have coupons for at least one of these places (and I carry a folder full of coupons in my car, so it's pretty likely I do). This past AX, I discovered there is a King Taco located nearby, and I know I can get a burrito the size of my forearm for $6 there.
Am I weird for considering $10 to be expensive for a meal? Or is this due to near-convention markup? (By the way, if you're spending $6 at McDonald's, you're ordering the wrong things. Currently, McDonald's has the 2 for $2.50 promotion, along with the $1 drinks. If you get two McDoubles or McChickens and a large drink, that should be enough to set you for at least a few more hours, and it'd be $3.50 plus tax. If you do the receipt survey, you can get a buy-one-get-one-free Quarter Pounder with Cheese, which is most commonly about $4 to $4.50 at a reasonbly-priced McDonald's. If you combine the two into the meals for the day, it won't be the most pleasant day for you as far as things to eat, but you will spend no more than $10 for that day including tax.) Part of this, however, is because if I can get to the area ahead of time, I will scope out the area for places to eat, step inside and memorize their menus and their prices, then plan accordingly for the time I will remain in that area. |
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Suena
Posts: 289 |
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About the "darn kids these days wasting so much money!":
1) I hear tons of youngsters are also buying stuff in place of their friends who couldn't make it to the con. They are on buying assignments because they want to be a good friend, and will be reimbursed later. 2) Are you sure all these people are kids? Because there are tons of smaller/young-featured adults that can easily be mistaken for teens. Especially if cosplaying, and Makeup Magic is happening. 3) Teens can have jobs and earn money for things they want to spend it on. Maybe they've been babysitting for $10 an hour as often as they can for the past 2 years so they can blow it all on a special event. Why not let them have their fun? 4) And finally, yes there are kids who have rich parents. And if their parents want to lavish them with $300-per-month allowances, then that's their business. |
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Freyanne
 Posts: 216 |
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When it comes to food, I think it's (in part) a case of " Are you planning on eating fast food at the con? If so, how often?". Plus, eating habits/appetite/diet restrictions can factor in as well. I have a family member that tends to get the large options for food (in fast food places, for example) because the smaller options aren't enough for him.
I like McDonalds and I go there on a near-weekly basis nowadays, but I wouldn't want to eat mainly that, or fast food in general, for the entire time I am at a con. Once a day is fine for me, but at some point, I am going to want something "different/more", if that makes sense. It's why I try to go, at least once, to a nearby restaraunt/buffet when I am at a con for the weekend, excluding whatever foods I bring to my hotel in a cooler. I'm one of those weirdos that doesn't even mind paying for the breakfast buffet/meal/ect at the hotel restraurant, and I know that for some con goers having to pay for breakfast can be, understandably, a bit of a deal breaker when choosing a hotel to stay at. $10+ for a meal sounds average to me. That is basically how much it costs for me to get a non-fast food meal where I live (convention or not), but more around the $7 to $9+ range. |
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Shiflan
 Posts: 418 |
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I think it depends on what you mean, exactly. $10/meal is not unusual to plan for when traveling and you are stuck eating out for most if not every meal. You could certainly do cheaper if you were willing to eat fast food for every meal, alt least in most cases. Convention locations matter greatly. Sometimes there will be no (or few) fast food choices nearby. And if the con is in a "resort" location it can be even worse. I once attended a business conference in Florida (totally unrelated to anime). There were no convenience stores or fast food for 20 miles. The cheapest restaurant in the hotel sold hamburgers for $10--that didn't include fries or a drink. The mid-priced restaurant (a "sports bar") charged $20 and up for just about everything. Even at that price it was pretty much impossible to get a table without a huge wait because the choices were so limited. ...but that said, if you're hitting the con on a budget then it makes little sense to eat out at all and you can do MUCH better than $10/meal. Visit a supermarket and buy some stuff you can keep in your hotel fridge. These days pretty much all hotel rooms are going to have a fridge & microwave. Then you can feed yourself for far less money than even McDonalds and free up more $$$ for loot. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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I've staffed at a small con in the past that only had 3,500 to 4,000 attendees. I can attest how much work simply went into that. I just got back from Otakon and can only imagine the sheer madness it takes to pull it off. Hell I talked with a staff member there...they have hundreds of staffers. Hundreds. And even then they are still under staffed. Even then they still don't have enough to ensure everything runs as smooth as possible. That is only just 1 small part of their undertaking. Having staff on the floor at the con. Many cons also pay for the lodging for their staff. Not just guests. Let alone all the other financial and logistical burdens. It's almost like fans trying to run and organize a professional sports stadium for a weekend in a sense. I can also attest to the fact the venue itself is a huge cost. Some cons cost more because the hotel or convention center they are at charges more. Some start charging more over time as they see the amount of people who show up. They realize they can charge the people running the con more money to use their facility and their choices are either pay the new higher fee, or scramble to find a new venue. For the small con it's not as hard trying to find a new venue to host the con at compared to something that gets 30k+ attendees. As for kids spending money, even if they got it from their parents, as opposed to a job or saving up an allowance etc., who cares? They're having fun and supporting the anime industry in some fashion so let em have their fun.
I agree entirely.
Every con I have been to has staff members who go around and check out the booths. In particular for bootleg dvds. The vast majority now a days have a strict no bootleg policy and go around checking. I'm sure some shady vendors hide them and have them but it certainly not like the old days where they were everywhere.
For you perhaps not, but you don't speak for everyone. Believe it or not others can have a different opinion. Some of us are quite happy paying full price or even a little more to support the industry or just because we're enjoying ourselves. And as Key said there are a lot of con exclusieve material, special editions, or some sort of other limited set of merch or extras that companies give out at cons with their products. And even when that's not the case my first point remains.
Don't call yourself an anime con unless you stick to my tight and narrow minded idea of what constitutes an anime con!!! Sound like one of those users who complain about the ANN Interest Pieces constantly. How dare an anime con have non anime related panels for those fans who are there that are fans of both that product and anime. How rude right? I mean we can't simply let people enjoy themselves right? Of course not. FYI most of those non-anime panels are fan run. As in they are not industry panels, they are done by fans. If you want more strictly anime related panels well then I suggest you go to a con and run one yourself. As for the cosplayers I say just salute those who put the time into making good outfits regardless of what genre it falls into. But again we can't possibly simply allow people to be happy. |
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Paiprince
 Posts: 593 |
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I take issues with this. The mongrelization of anime cons are a contributing factor of lowering attendance rates in a few of them. It doesn't help that certain "events" like raves attract the wrong sort of people. I went to anime con rave expecting to hear at least remixes of anisongs, but nope got generic dance and techno music. I don't know about you, but I rather not anime conventions turn into some excuse for normies and junkies to club out. Also, try cosplaying something from anime that's not blessed with mainstream popularity at Dragon-con or Comic-con and see how out of place you'd look let alone anyone going to ask for your pictures. While it's their prerogative to cosplay or sell whatever they want, at least have the awareness of the subject and audience they're targeting for. Like, how there are K-Pop booths at the dealer's room. Uh, yeah go to KCon. You could actually sell a whole lot more there. I'd swing your suggestion right back at them and create their own con be it full of memes and whatnot. Let's keep anime/manga cons as anime/manga as much as possible thank you very much. Last edited by Paiprince on Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Shiflan
Posts: 418 |
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I agree with that 100%. I don't think that anyone here is honestly expecting a con to be 100% in line with their personal preferences, but in some cases the crossover gets out of hand. Speaking for myself, I have no problem with seeing things like comics, video games, role-playing, Jpop/Kpop, etc, at an "Anime" con. There's clearly a lot of overlap in the fandom. But that being said, I DO expect that Anime be the main focus of the con. The majority of the content--be it events, artist's alley, dealer's room, panels, etc--ought to be Anime related. And you are 100% correct in that the "mongrelization" results in decreased attendance. I have stopped attending A-Kon because of this very problem--even though it is a short drive away.
I've never attended a con rave, but I would have the exact same expectations that you did. I'd be expecting to hear anime music & remixes there too. |
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fathergoat
Posts: 90 |
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I just got back from Otakon. I have been telling people for years that the reason I like it is because they stick with anime and related culture. I for one would not attend a generic "comi-con". Even if having the cast of "walking dead" brought in more people they would be doing it at the cost of event's very soul. When they had the cast of twilight at comi-con they stopped being comi-con and started being whatever-the hell-makes-money-con. I'm spending time and money to be immersed in my hobby with my nerd brethren, not to rub shoulders with a bunch of filthy plebes.*
I think a lot of people are underestimating the power of saving. Putting aside $20 a week will get you $1040 in spending money if you save for a year. Those darn kids might not have good jobs but a lot of them live at home and don't have a lot of expenses. Combine that with packed cars/rooms and suddenly you have plenty of spending money. Most con goers I've talked to this is their one big trip of the year so it seems to be pretty common. *yes I'm being somewhat facetious |
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s0nicfreak
 Posts: 21 Location: near Chicago |
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Wait, are you being facetious about that whole paragraph or just that last sentence? Because The Walking Dead is based on a comic book, so imo the cast of the tv show fits in at a comic convention, but Twilight isn't/doesn't. If the cast of Supernatural showed up at an anime convention I'd be okay with that as long as they pretended to be promoting Supernatural: The Animation (the anime based on Supernatural) but I wouldn't want the cast of The Walking Dead at an anime convention. |
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fathergoat
Posts: 90 |
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The last sentence. And I was referring to having walking dead at an anime con wouldn't fit in.
Mostly I'm against trying to smush all of nerd culture into one group. It's like there's this push to see otaku, trekkies, comic nerds, role players, ect. into one homogenized category. Even though people do cross over all of them they are all distinctly different hobbies. I'm going to an anime con because I want to be around otaku culture. Last edited by fathergoat on Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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s0nicfreak
Posts: 21 Location: near Chicago |
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Ah okay I see what you meant now.
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Hardgear
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Funny enough, the only merchandise I do buy at cons is stuff that I can't even find online or stuff like wallscrolls or artbooks whos average price range is well known to everyone so it rarely strays from there. I always check on my phone before buying something though, which really seems to piss off those who DO mark up for the convention. But unsurprisingly, those who have not marked up or know they have stuff you can't (easily) find online don't seem to mind. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Good, I thought I was going crazy in that I spend way less than what everyone else was describing. I can usually find something other than nationwide fast food chains at a good value though. If I'm in Chicago, for instance, I'll most likely hit up Superdawg.
Were you unable to drive? Was there not enough time to drive out? Or were you not allowed to leave a certain area? (I'm the sort of person who will drive across a major city in order to go get something specific though. I think I am unusual in that way.) One thing I ought to point out, however, is that if the convention restricts you to within the building (like Japan Expo), you don't really have much of a choice. You're going to be price-gouged.
I'd imagine there must be people who staff at large conventions who are good at spotted bootleg home video and video games (and, to a lesser extent, figures and other high-end anime merchandise). However, it's harder to detect bootlegs of certain other things, especially merchandise that isn't as valuable or sought-after, and merchandise of more obscure shows or non-Japanese franchises. The sheer variety of things being sold by the vendors means it's impossible to have someone on hand knowledgeable enough to identify every bootlegged item sold at a convention. I collect plushes, for instance, which is quite heavily plagued by bootlegging. It can be difficult even for me to identify, say, a bootlegged Hatsune Miku plush, because it seems like every plush manufacturer in Japan, and a ton outside of Japan, make plushes of her, and they come in all sorts of styles. This environment makes it very easy for a bootlegging group to create their own take on Miku and throw them into the forest of Miku plushes.
For better or for worse, that is the trend in the mainstream right now: There is a "geek in general" kind of look and lifestyle that's become quite popular. The result is that the mainstream associates all geek hobbies with each other, and they really do think it's all smushed up. I'd imagine the San Diego and New York Comic-Cons are largely responsible for this, as that's where the major Hollywood studios go, the major TV studios, and the major press, and so that's the impression they'd get of conventions as a whole. In turn, you get works of fiction depicting all geek conventions as being like Comic-Con and then the assumption that if you like A, you must also like B, C, D, E, and F. There are definitely "geek in general" conventions out there though. I can think of MAGfest, ReplayFX, and...North by Northwest, I believe? (I forget its exact name.) From the perspective of vendors though, while they are all enormous in attendance and scale, there just aren't enough of these. I think that's why vendors who don't really have much anime/manga stuff to sell go to anime conventions: Because they know there is still enough interest there to turn a profit. And if the convention accepts them, then why not? I am of the camp who doesn't really mind. I look forward to seeing what they have at the We Love Fine booth if there is ever one, for instance. But I guess that's because I'm more of an inclusionist. |
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kazenoyume
Posts: 425 |
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Thanks for the assumption but I'm already a convention sector director so I'm already doing these things. And I'm also a panelist. I run panels at almost every single con I go to. 
And no I don't complain about special interest pieces on ANN, because they don't make up a huge chunk of the content posted here. Yes I realize most of those panels are fan run, but cons are the ones that approve them. If they were just 'occasional' that would be one thing, but it's gotten to the point that I go to some conventions and they're a good 1/3+ of the programming. Same goes with the dealer's room, where a good half of the content will be Western pop culture. Saying that the vast majority of the official programming and vending at an anime convention should be anime should not be a controversial statement. It's frustrating for many of us who WANT to go to anime cons, because while the people who want the Western pop culture could go to myriad of comic cons, for anime fans, we have anime cons. I wouldn't go to a Star Trek convention and request Star Wars panels, so I don't know why people go to Anime Conventions and request Marvel panels and whatnot. Yes, I DO think it is a little rude to be insistent that a convention cater to your interest when it's outside the stated subject of the convention. And the problem is when one convention does it, other cons are expected to as well, and when they don't, people get angry at them for it. For example, I've seen cosplayers get absolutely irate that certain anime cons won't allow non-Japanese media related cosplay in their masquerade contest because so-and-so convention does. As for cosplay, did you read what I said? I said I didn't care and noted that I even did it myself sometimes. |
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PMDR
Posts: 140 |
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Worked as a con staffer for over 15 years, working my way up from lowly volunteer to a department head to second in rank over the whole thing. What it costs to run a con became an unrelenting nightmare at the end.
Facilities cost a LOT. And everything you do with them costs. For example, if you need lights and air conditioning, that may cost extra. Thousands of dollars a day per room, in some cases. And the costs skyrocket! Here is a great example of a real problem. We had an event room being used for some panels and a concert. It also had some downtime because, well, it just did. So someone had the idea to hold a dance in that room, which was otherwise going to be unused at that time. Suddenly, we need to rent a dance floor. We have to have facility staff come in and rearrange tables and chairs to make room -they're union and get OT, we have to do a different audio setup since a dance is not the same as the other events, we have to commision the facility to provide water -people dancing get hot and need to drink- which costs a lot, we have to arrange our own staff to run the event, make sure security is extended to that area which was otherwise not going to be in use, and then we have to make sure we have someone to be in the room actually running the dance -oh and they will need a suitable microphone and whatever other gear they need. The upshot from all that the idea somebody had "hey why don't we do a dance in there?" NINE words. Blew north of $20,000. BANG. This was for a smaller con in a smaller facility. Add zeroes for a bigger con or event facility. Keep in mind, these facilities thrive on the extra cost for last-minute changes to event spaces and needs. They make bank off selling ice water refills. They LOVE hearing you need chairs moved, because every single one costs. Along with four workers at $100/hr each, minimum four hours each. At the same time, these facilities are geared toward professional for-profit events like tradeshows and business conferences and meetings where these stupid crazy costs either get written off on the taxes or they just make shareholder money pay for it. I've seen shows like that blow $20,000 just on food to cater a small meeting. They wrote it off and nobody blinked. An anime con usually can't do that. I can't speak to every con but I know from the experience we had, dealers buying tables usually provided the down payments to reserve the facility. Prereg sales provided another chunk of that. And if the con was lucky, there was money left to rent equipment, fly in guests and stipend them, feed miscellaneous VIPs, secure hotel rooms, begin printing flyers and program books and a million other costs. It was VERY possible to walk in to a con setup hours before the doors open with nothing left in the bank account. If you think it sounds fine this way and people walking in will soon replenish the coffers, that is true. But. Credit/debit card money can take weeks to get back to the con. It depends on who is processing that but nobody swipes a card and immediately has cash in hand. Maybe Walmart does. Cash walking in the door has to be counted, bagged, sent with armed guards to the bank and paperwork has to be filled out. We can't just dip into the walk-in cash till and hand out money. Somebody comes in and wants to buy lunch for all the guests. Suddenly that's hundreds or even a thousand bucks -supposed to come from where? It is maddening trying to keep this straight. And keep in mind, the hotel and facility usually want a check sometime during the event so even the cash has already been spent. Vendors who are nice agree to wait until after the event to be paid so they're standing in line for money, too. Program books! There's a cost center attendees don't even think about. We used to spend around a dollar a copy making the program book. Need one of those for each attendee you think might show up. Tens of thousands of dollars for something you may have tossed in the trash within the first day. Pocket programs are another one. IF you can even get the staff to complete the stupid thing the day before the con opens, then you need a quick printer to produce a ton of them. That costs. I do not have fond memories of the time we had a very late pocket program to run and guess who was off at a printer shop -who knew this was coming- making thousands of them? Me. My credit card company called me while I was there because I just far exceeded anything I'd ever bought before. Not the con's card. Mine. Con had no way to change the budget to pay for it so I did it. Yep I got repaid. My point here is that it may LOOK like a big show dripping in cash but the reality is that every stupid little thing costs money, and money only goes so far, no matter if you are a big con or a small one. And sometimes it's not even the con's fault. We had hotels bill the con for event space after the fact because random attendees went into closed rooms not being used by the con and played Pokemon cards or read manga in there. To the hotel, the fact that some attendee of ours was in the room meant it was our responsibility to pay. Now, the hotel refused beforehand to lock the doors to these rooms and would not give us keys either. So we got stuck with something we could not control and in any case never expected to be our responsibility to pay for. Bam, thousands of dollars gone. Because, well, you want to come back next year, don't you? I dunno, there was this woodworking show asking to come in that week.... It must be nice to run a tradeshow where everybody behaves and the whole thing is a tax write off. |
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