×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
Answerman - How Do I Introduce Old Anime To Younger Fans?


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Spawn29



Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 551
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:36 pm Reply with quote
Heishi wrote:


One of the reasons I consider Karas to be a classic.


Yeah I agree. Even Black Lagoon is from 2006 or 2007, it still looks fairly new today.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guile



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 595
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:28 pm Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
For the life of me I will never understand why anime fandom seems so hyper-focused on new content, to the point where I've seen people refer to shows made five years ago as " too old," which to me is the height of insanity. The strangest part is that it's something I don't see in other media fandoms. Western animation buffs regularly praise TV series from the 90s, and of course the Golden Age of Looney Tunes is held up as the holy grail of all animation before or since. Even the most casual movie buffs freely watch and enjoy films made decades before they were born. General TV fans think nothing of binge-watching shows from more than a decade ago, if not even far older. Retro gaming has become huge over the past several years, and even the most casual dudebro Call of Duty fans regularly point to an earlier title in that series as their favorite. (Hell, I can't count how many people I knew in college brought along their decade-old N64s for the sake of playing some inebriated Mario Kart rounds. Very Happy) And I dare you to name a bibliophile who hasn't enjoyed works that are centuries old by now. So if old stuff is awesome in all of those other forms of media, then why is anime fandom so myopic in its love for the here and now?


You are simplifying the matter tremendously and it's not quite the same.

Western animation is in a decline/rut and has been for years. People fondly remember the 90s because there was more variety and shows were riskier. You will never see western cartoons like Batman the Animated Series or Animaniacs again. Comedy shows are aimed at kids exclusively, and action animation has faded out of production. People also miss hand drawn animation, since everything today is CG or animate in Flash. It makes perfect sense why people pine for the old days in this situation. Still, most actual kids, not adults, will watch modern shows over older cartoons. But for adult fans there's nothing if you don't care about Fox's lineup.

I don't know which movie, book, and television people you're talking about, but most of them greatly prefer current products. Modrn YA fiction is popular, and you don't see old books made into movie anthologies like how Harry Potter and Hunger Games were. Your average reader is going to care more for Fault in Our Stars than War and Peace or Huck Finn. Virtually every mainstream movie goer prefers modern superheroes to old versions, and the MCU has been immensely popular and fruitful. Except for failed reboots like Ghostbusters, your average consumer is going to prefer modern films. I've seen plenty of people dismiss old movies due to dated effects/action, or they're in black and white. And your average streamer is going to binge Pretty Little Liars or Walking Dead, not Sanford and Son and Dallas.

Retro gaming is niche. People prefering last's years COD to this years isn't retro. CoD wasnt even super popular until Advanced Warfare. The majority of fans aren't going to play the first few games of the series over modern ones. Some college kids getting drunk and playing Mario Kart isn't a mirror of the industry. AAA Western games are all about current trends and sales.

Most anime fans don't cling to the past because there's no need to. Outside of western animation, all those other industries are healthy and putting out tons of new products as well, so most people don't need to look through a backlog to find something to enjoy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:46 pm Reply with quote
Mr. Oshawott wrote:

Ah, yes...Good ol' cel anime from the 1990's...I miss those days when female characters had a larger-volume hairstyles...


Anime just traded larger-volume hairstyles and small tits for small-volume hairstyles and enormous boobs. Wether this was an improvement or not I leave it up you. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5914
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:04 pm Reply with quote
Guile wrote:
Comedy shows are aimed at kids exclusively


Have been more or less since about the 1960's/1970's

Guile wrote:
and action animation has faded out of production.


Had been in decline since about the mid 2000's

Guile wrote:
People also miss hand drawn animation, since everything today is CG or animate in Flash. It makes perfect sense why people pine for the old days in this situation.


Not unless you factor in the fact that some people are purists who hate other animation styles by default.

Guile wrote:
But for adult fans there's nothing if you don't care about Fox's lineup.


Steven Universe, Adventure Time, The Boondocks, The Loud House? also Fox doesn't really air any animated shows anymore.

Guile wrote:
Virtually every mainstream movie goer prefers modern superheroes to old versions,


Modern Superhero films? or Modern Superhero's in general? because if we're talking about the former DC has whiffed a few times over the last 15 years with Superman Returns, Green Lantern, Jonah Hex, BvS, & now Suicide Squad. Sony whiffed with The Ghost Rider movies, & Spider-Man 3, Fox couldn't make anyone like any of the 3 Fantastic Four films along with Daredevil, Electra, X-Men Last Stand, & Wolverine Origins. And Punisher never worked for some reason.

Guile wrote:
and the MCU has been immensely popular and fruitful.


Minus the Thor movies, and the last two Iron Man movies which aren't terribly popular.

Guile wrote:
And your average streamer is going to binge Pretty Little Liars or Walking Dead, not Sanford and Son and Dallas.


If you weren't exposed to an older work at some point in your life and wound up liking it you're going to be less inclined to seek those older works out. Even more so if it hasn't aged well.

Guile wrote:
CoD wasnt even super popular until Advanced Warfare.


Don't know where you're getting this from but the earlier COD games were pretty popular it's Modern Warfare that took the franchise's popularity to new heights.

Guile wrote:
The majority of fans aren't going to play the first few games of the series over modern ones.


As well they shouldn't unless it's Modern Warfare or World At War.

Guile wrote:
Most anime fans don't cling to the past because there's no need to. Outside of western animation, all those other industries are healthy and putting out tons of new products as well, so most people don't need to look through a backlog to find something to enjoy.


If people are complaining about the majority of the newer stuff they kind of would have to.


Last edited by BadNewsBlues on Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Spawn29



Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 551
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:19 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:

I would not recommend Dragon Ball Z nowadays unless they're curious about why it was such a big phenomenon.


We have the whole series from start to finish now. If for new anime fans that want to get into Dragon Ball, they should start with the first Dragon Ball show then start with Kai after they are done with DB. Kai has a better English dub, way less filler and has much better pacing. The original DBZ is pointless to watch now if you ask me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5914
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:45 pm Reply with quote
Spawn29 wrote:
The original DBZ is pointless to watch now if you ask me.


I wouldn't really say it's pointless compared to Kai being that both shows are fundamentally the same. Barring the changes that exist in the script, the music, and of course the filler.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Spawn29



Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 551
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:33 pm Reply with quote
Kai uses the original Japanese music from DBZ given how Kenji Yamamato's music were stolen from other sources and they switch over with the original music from Shunsuke Kikuchi. Also Funimation made Kai feel more closer to the Japanese scripts given how the old DBZ had dub errors (Like Tenshinhan can grow back body parts, Doctor Gero Was the Leader of the Red Ribbon Army, Tao Pai Pai being a general and several others).

I feel like Kai is the best choice for new anime fans when it comes to DBZ.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:45 pm Reply with quote
TonyTonyChopper wrote:
I hate this seperation this is new this is old ... especially when you talk about anything before 2000 ... come on i have seen anime from the 1950's and read manga from the 1940's and i do even own some older stuff then that cause i have a general interest in in not because i was saw it as a child cause i was just born in 1992 !!!!

All i can think of is because of this casuals then only want sparkle digital animation i don't get all the stuff that i want ...while hand crafted stuff looks way better and it actually has soul to it !!!!
But i still take best of both worlds (just look at my user name) but i have to say lot's of anime being made today is either entry level shounen or commercial Japanese Otaku stuff ... i don't actually care for, while older stuff just keeps on giving !!!
One can also say that the medium used to be more badass especially in the 80's where now more stuff is either for (little) kids or perverts ...


I think you pretty much explained yourself in that rant. The question is what to do to introduce people to anime. Would you not pick something "entry-level" for them to get started on?

Also, digital animation is still hand drawn. It's just now drawn by hand on a tablet or a touch-screen monitor instead of a cel.

Spawn29 wrote:
We have the whole series from start to finish now. If for new anime fans that want to get into Dragon Ball, they should start with the first Dragon Ball show then start with Kai after they are done with DB. Kai has a better English dub, way less filler and has much better pacing. The original DBZ is pointless to watch now if you ask me.


If we're going to go more in-depth about the series, and someone wanted to watch Dragon Ball, it'll come down to what it is they're looking for. Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z have much different tones to them. The former is comedy with a dose of action, and the latter is an action with a dose of comedy. I've met plenty for whom Dragon Ball would've been a turn-off because it was too silly and didn't have the ki blasts and mountain-crushing they were hoping for.

But yeah, if they want the latter, I'd give them Kai instead. The original DBZ anime is too bogged down with filler and padding.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 5914
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:55 pm Reply with quote
Spawn29 wrote:
Kai uses the original Japanese music from DBZ given how Kenji Yamamato's music were stolen from other sources and they switch over with the original music from Shunsuke Kikuchi.


Sure hope anyone going into it will like it given that the original score doesn't generally leave people with a good first impression.

Spawn29 wrote:
(Like Tenshinhan can grow back body parts, )


That was the original Ocean dub that had that infamous bit. The second dub was free to let people get cut in half and play things straight Razz.

Spawn29 wrote:
Tao Pai Pai being a general


DragonBall turned him into a Mercenary.

Spawn29 wrote:
I feel like Kai is the best choice for new anime fans when it comes to DBZ.


It's definitely the more attractive option if you can't handle an anime with filler or one that goes more than a 100 episodes but otherwise you can't go wrong with either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11339
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:45 am Reply with quote
Guile wrote:
...you don't see old books made into movie anthologies like how Harry Potter and Hunger Games were.

Classic books tend not to be written as anthologies, but we still have Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, and more contemporary novel series featuring James Bond, Jason Bourne, Jack Ryan and Hannibal Lecter. That said, I'm not sure what being made into a movie has to do with Top Gun's point that people who read books don't reject a book because it's old, the way some anime viewers reject a title for that reason alone.

And your comment that "People also miss hand drawn animation, since everything today is CG or animate in Flash. It makes perfect sense why people pine for the old days in this situation," seems to support his bafflement at why anime is the exception. If people miss cel animation in western cartoons, why would they avoid old anime?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Guile



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 595
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:24 am Reply with quote
BadNewsBlues wrote:
Not unless you factor in the fact that some people are purists who hate other animation styles by default.


It's not much of a preference if an alternative doesn't exist. People have been complaining about the death of 2D for a long time now.

Quote:
Steven Universe, Adventure Time, The Boondocks, The Loud House? also Fox doesn't really air any animated shows anymore.
Only one of those is aimed at adults, and Fox still airs Simpsons and Family Guy and Bob's Burgers.

Quote:
Modern Superhero films? or Modern Superhero's in general? because if we're talking about the former DC has whiffed a few times over the last 15 years with Superman Returns, Green Lantern, Jonah Hex, BvS, & now Suicide Squad. Sony whiffed with The Ghost Rider movies, & Spider-Man 3, Fox couldn't make anyone like any of the 3 Fantastic Four films along with Daredevil, Electra, X-Men Last Stand, & Wolverine Origins. And Punisher never worked for some reason.


What are you defining as a whiff because Suicide Squad is immensely popular and made a lot of money. Rotten Tomatos scores don't matter. New, prostitute-looking Harley Quinn has completely taken over old red and black jumpsuit Harley Quin, for better or worse. I'd call it a success.

Quote:
Don't know where you're getting this from but the earlier COD games were pretty popular it's Modern Warfare that took the franchise's popularity to new heights.


Sorry, I meant Modern Warfare, I got them mixed up.

Quote:
If people are complaining about the majority of the newer stuff they kind of would have to.


Those people who complain every season are in the minority, similar to people who say anime is dying every season. Most people, especially in Japan, love current stuff just fine.

Gina Szanboti wrote:
That said, I'm not sure what being made into a movie has to do with Top Gun's point that people who read books don't reject a book because it's old, the way some anime viewers reject a title for that reason alone.


Around here the only way we've found to get teenagers to read old books as if it's mandatory reading for class. There's a lot of people who would rather read modern young adult fiction and don't show interest in old books. Maybe it's just my region.

Quote:
And your comment that "People also miss hand drawn animation, since everything today is CG or animate in Flash. It makes perfect sense why people pine for the old days in this situation," seems to support his bafflement at why anime is the exception. If people miss cel animation in western cartoons, why would they avoid old anime?

What do you mean? Modern anime is still mostly 2D. Only a few anime are CG, like the Berserk adaptions, and those get complaints for it. 2D is everywhere in anime.

The apathy for older works is not limited to anime. It's found in most other fandoms as well. The only real clinging to the glory days I ever see is from western animation fans who say old Simpsons, Powerpuff Girls, etc are better, 90s cartoons in general were better, and stuff like that. Other fandoms seem to just go with the trends.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:34 am Reply with quote
Guile wrote:
The apathy for older works is not limited to anime. It's found in most other fandoms as well. The only real clinging to the glory days I ever see is from western animation fans who say old Simpsons, Powerpuff Girls, etc are better, 90s cartoons in general were better, and stuff like that. Other fandoms seem to just go with the trends.


There is a faction in every medium that's been around long enough of people who grew up with older things and prefer them. The rise in retro-gaming is one. Yes, it is a minority, but the fact is that it exists. (It was also one of the dominant factions when I went to college between 2004 and 2008, long before it became as visible as it is now.)

I'd say western animation is the same deal: You have some people who prefer the old stuff, but you have plenty who prefer the new stuff too. That's why shows like Steven Universe, Phineas and Ferb, and Gravity Falls can have huge adult audiences. I think that perception of yours is based on groups you see immediately around you (just as I thought retro-gaming was bigger than it actually was when I was in college).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peno



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 349
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:19 am Reply with quote
Guile wrote:

Around here the only way we've found to get teenagers to read old books as if it's mandatory reading for class. There's a lot of people who would rather read modern young adult fiction and don't show interest in old books. Maybe it's just my region.

It may be regional. I know a lot of young people here happily reading Hobit and Lord of Rings, but the same people wouldn't touch Narnia with long pole, since we are pretty atheistic country and while Tolkien's books are quite secular, Narnia is the kind of books that will push god and religion through your throat and that don't appeal to a lot of people here.

Guile wrote:

What do you mean? Modern anime is still mostly 2D. Only a few anime are CG, like the Berserk adaptions, and those get complaints for it. 2D is everywhere in anime.

You are obviously mixing 2D CG, 3D CG and cel animation (also called hand-drawn animation). I understand you can't tell differences between 2D CG and cel animation, but as seen in this thread a lot of people can, especially those who got on anime in late 1990s where mixing of cel animation and 2D CG was normal practice and you could easily told which parts were done by which technique. A lot of cartoons (who weren't outright done in 3D) switched to 2D CG in late 1990s, while anime waited to early 2000s to fully switch on 2D CG. And BTW, a lot of cartoons are still done in 2D CG. The Simpsons, Avatar, Ben 10, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic or Lttlest Pet Shop being just some examples of recent or still running 2D CG cartoons.
Now, 3D CG is a different matter. You don't see it as often in anime as you see it in cartoons, but it's not new feature even in anime. You can see some 3D CG animation as early as Digimon Adventure from 1999 and I am sure there may be other more early examples. The problem is, if you don't mix 2D and 3D CG right, which is exactly what Berserk did and was rightly criticized for it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11339
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:08 am Reply with quote
Guile wrote:
Around here the only way we've found to get teenagers to read old books as if it's mandatory reading for class. There's a lot of people who would rather read modern young adult fiction and don't show interest in old books. Maybe it's just my region.

About the only way to get teenagers to read books at all is requiring reading for class. That's why Harry Potter was so embraced by adults, especially teachers, because kids wanted to read the books. It's also why we were talking about people who read books for pleasure as opposed to people who can read. Top Gun's lament was that among fans of various media, only anime viewers seem to reject older titles simply for being old. As far as I know, manga readers don't turn up their noses at older manga if someone gives them a copy. Yet some of those same readers won't watch its anime adaptation because it's old.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 4125
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:44 am Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Guile wrote:
The apathy for older works is not limited to anime. It's found in most other fandoms as well. The only real clinging to the glory days I ever see is from western animation fans who say old Simpsons, Powerpuff Girls, etc are better, 90s cartoons in general were better, and stuff like that. Other fandoms seem to just go with the trends.


There is a faction in every medium that's been around long enough of people who grew up with older things and prefer them. The rise in retro-gaming is one. Yes, it is a minority, but the fact is that it exists. (It was also one of the dominant factions when I went to college between 2004 and 2008, long before it became as visible as it is now.)


I think this is the hang up. People here are acting like anime fans are this weird exception that hates all old stuff, but that's certainly not true. This very thread is a testament to these peoples' existence. But just like all of the other entertainment mediums discussed here, there is a niche within the audience that pursues that kind of material. It may seem much more prominent because the size of the book-reading audience, or the film watching audience, is substantially larger, in general, but I think all in all, the proportion of fans from anime who pursue and watch a lot of the "classics" is probably pretty similar to any of those others mediums. It's probably worth noting that the ones resistant to checking out the older stuff in all of these mediums is usually the teenagers though, and there are a lot of teenagers into anime. You shouldn't really expect them to be any more interested in much older stuff. The ones who stay in the community for more than a few years will often evolve. It is also worth mentioning though, that there is a LOT of content coming out of Japan these days, so it often seems like there is very little reason to go searching for older stuff. People have so much to watch already!


peno wrote:
Guile wrote:

What do you mean? Modern anime is still mostly 2D. Only a few anime are CG, like the Berserk adaptions, and those get complaints for it. 2D is everywhere in anime.

You are obviously mixing 2D CG, 3D CG and cel animation (also called hand-drawn animation). I understand you can't tell differences between 2D CG and cel animation, but as seen in this thread a lot of people can, especially those who got on anime in late 1990s where mixing of cel animation and 2D CG was normal practice and you could easily told which parts were done by which technique....


It's not called "2D CG". And the vast majority of it is still initially drawn on paper with pencils and then scanned into a computer. There is no "CG" involved in the creation of the actual animation. I'm not sure where you got that idea.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 6 of 8

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group