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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
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Location: Windsor Ontario
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:46 am Reply with quote
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but in a world where Samus' last appearance was Other M


I'm actually okay with that since I love Other M. What could another Samus lead Metroid game be about anyways? Mother Brain comes back again? The Federation has yet another secret Metroid breeding plan? Then again I suppose most Metroid fans just want to be stranded on some planet with monsters to kill and don't really care for an actual story. I'm not one of those fans, though and I really liked the more plot heavy Fusion and Other M.
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Themaster20000



Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 665
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:31 am Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
Quote:
but in a world where Samus' last appearance was Other M


I'm actually okay with that since I love Other M. What could another Samus lead Metroid game be about anyways? Mother Brain comes back again? The Federation has yet another secret Metroid breeding plan? Then again I suppose most Metroid fans just want to be stranded on some planet with monsters to kill and don't really care for an actual story. I'm not one of those fans, though and I really liked the more plot heavy Fusion and Other M.


Am one of those fans who enjoyed the games when they focused more atmosphere and environmental storytelling.My biggest issue with Other M besides the terrible writing is how it discourages exploration with it being extremely linear (Fusion does this to an extent).

Looking forward to your thoughts on Axiom Verge,which is by far the best Metroidvania game in years Very Happy
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 11829
Location: Windsor Ontario
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:48 am Reply with quote
Themaster20000 wrote:
Am one of those fans who enjoyed the games when they focused more atmosphere and environmental storytelling.My biggest issue with Other M besides the terrible writing is how it discourages exploration with it being extremely linear (Fusion does this to an extent).


Well, most Other M exploration is in the post game segment where you have to find all the items and make your way to the extra boss.

But as some one who always has to look up a walkthrough 10 minutes into Super Metroid I won't complain about a game telling me where to go.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 1680
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:57 am Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:

I'm actually okay with that since I love Other M. What could another Samus lead Metroid game be about anyways? Mother Brain comes back again? The Federation has yet another secret Metroid breeding plan? Then again I suppose most Metroid fans just want to be stranded on some planet with monsters to kill and don't really care for an actual story. I'm not one of those fans, though and I really liked the more plot heavy Fusion and Other M.


Maybe I'm reading the post wrong, but that's literally what happen in other M?

The problem with other M is that the Samus in it is completely different that the Samus in every other game, even if a character doesn't speak they still take action. Samus is a person who hear that the space pirate is on a planet and decide to go there, all alone with minimal equipment, no back up and no order to do so. She then proceed to kick all there asses. Samus from other M would constantly ask for order and would cry when an enemy she literally killed over 4 time shows up. Oh and she also let herself roast alive instead of turning on her suit AC because her daddy didn't specifically tell her she could. Oh and also the game forgot half its plot.

The gameplay was also pretty bad, the control were utter non sense, forgoing the analogue stick and constantly forcing you switch the controller from being sideway to pointing at the screen. The game also didn't really introduce any new gameplay element/power/upgrade and was extremely linear.
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belvadeer



Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 3657
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:25 pm Reply with quote
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Final Fantasy XV has been in development for over a decade now, so really, what's two more months?


Seriously. What's another two months more going to do? In the meantime, it'll give me plenty of leeway to get through Trails of Cold Steel II once it comes out.
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CheezcakeMe



Joined: 31 Dec 2015
Posts: 226
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:37 pm Reply with quote
Man I can't imagine spending a decade on a fan game. Why not make your own game that you can put on Steam and make some money off of? Guess I just don't understand their poke-passion.
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
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Location: Windsor Ontario
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:54 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
Maybe I'm reading the post wrong, but that's literally what happen in other M?


Yeah, but my point is would you want that recycled a 3rd time?

meiam wrote:
The problem with other M is that the Samus in it is completely different that the Samus in every other game


Honestly I'd argue Samus really wasn't much of a person in the other games. What little characterization she does get we see in Other M, though. Super Metroid opens with her monologuing, and she does plenty of that in Fusion too, so her doing it in Other M is in character. She spared that last Metroid at the end of II, showing she does know mercy and her attitude towards it in Super is pretty maternal which carries over into Other M.

meiam wrote:
Samus is a person who hear that the space pirate is on a planet and decide to go there, all alone with minimal equipment, no back up and no order to do so.


Uh, Samus usually goes places because she's told to. She is a bounty hunter, after all, she does what she's paid to do.

Also it's funny you talk about minimal equipment, and then complain that she let herself roast alive. Samus is such a badass she don't need no stinkin' Varia suit! She sure wasn't complaining about it. If she was begging Adam to let her turn it on only for him to say no, then there'd be an issue.

meiam wrote:
Samus from other M would constantly ask for order and would cry when an enemy she literally killed over 4 time shows up.


I don't recall her ever asking for orders. Adam, the legitimate authority figure on the scene as a Federation official, required her to follow his orders if she wanted to stick around. Samus didn't mind following his orders because Adam is some one she trusts and respects, not because he's a man and she's a woman. Whenever she loses contact with Adam she doesn't become helpless, instead she turns on her power ups when she needs one.

As for Ridley, who says she didn't freak out a bit every other time she's encountered him? Again, past games had barely any characterization so we have no way of knowing. Besides, it's a bit more complicated than that. My interpretation (which I believe was supported by an interview but since I have no source consider it speculation) is that Ridley never died until Super Metroid. All the other times he escaped and regenerated. So Samus was okay with dealing with him those other times because she was mentally prepared for it. After Ridley finally dies for good she let herself have some closure. She could finally let go and move on with her life. But then his clone shows up, completely surprising her and causing her trauma to come back like a flood.

But she pulled herself together pretty quickly. Haters tend to forget to mention that. She's shoving her arm cannon down his throat in short order. That fight against Ridley was the best in the series if you ask me. That cut scene leading up to it really raised the stakes and got me pumped. Before he was just some space dragon that'd show up, but now it was personal!

meiam wrote:
Oh and also the game forgot half its plot.


If you mean the eraser, that had closure. Admittedly a bit anti-climactic but kind of fitting for him that he dies as a shadow and you just find his dead body.

As for the gameplay, that's a matter of taste but I found the switching to work pretty well. I loved the dodge mechanic, though only being able to heal when you're critical did suck.

Another thing I didn't really care for was the inclusion of the Nightmare. The build up to it in Fusion was masterful but now some of the edge is off because Samus had dealt with it before.
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Lord Oink



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 374
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:10 pm Reply with quote
Vaisaga wrote:
I'm actually okay with that since I love Other M. What could another Samus lead Metroid game be about anyways? Mother Brain comes back again? The Federation has yet another secret Metroid breeding plan? Then again I suppose most Metroid fans just want to be stranded on some planet with monsters to kill and don't really care for an actual story.


American Metroid fans hate story and just want the game to be a storyless shooter like Halo or Doom like the Prime games were, since those were a lot of people's first games. People love to build up Samus as some kind of female Master Chief or Gordon Freeman despite the fact literally everything official says that she's not.. A new Metroid game would either have to be another prequel like Other M, or pull a Resident Evil 4 and say the Galactic Federation was dealt with between games since Samus is like a fugitive at the end of Fusion. It would be a perfect opportunity to have a game focus on Zero Suit Samus and have it be a stealth game like Metal Gear where she infiltrates a GF base or something.

meiam wrote:
Samus is a person who hear that the space pirate is on a planet and decide to go there, all alone with minimal equipment, no back up and no order to do so.
Actually all the main games have her being ordered by the GF to do something. She was ordered to defeat Mother Brain, exterminate the Metroid home planet, and investigate planet with X life forms. The only game she shows initiative and investigates something on her own is Other M when she gets a distress signal, and I guess Super since she wants to rescue the Baby Metroid. Every other game she's been a lackey of the Galactic Federation.

Quote:
My interpretation (which I believe was supported by an interview but since I have no source consider it speculation) is that Ridley never died until Super Metroid. All the other times he escaped and regenerated. So Samus was okay with dealing with him those other times because she was mentally prepared for it. After Ridley finally dies for good she let herself have some closure. She could finally let go and move on with her life. But then his clone shows up, completely surprising her and causing her trauma to come back like a flood.


Correct. Ridley escaped in Metroid 1, and was nursing his wounds during Metroid 2. Super Metroid is when he finally dies. And the Ridley we see in Fusion is just the clone from Other M's dried-up husk being possessed by an X which Samus sees happening so she knows it's not the real Ridley.
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Paiprince



Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 584
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:03 pm Reply with quote
So this is the result of a Kojima-less Metal Gear eh? I fear for its future.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:29 pm Reply with quote
Lord Oink wrote:
Actually all the main games have her being ordered by the GF to do something. She was ordered to defeat Mother Brain, exterminate the Metroid home planet, and investigate planet with X life forms. The only game she shows initiative and investigates something on her own is Other M when she gets a distress signal, and I guess Super since she wants to rescue the Baby Metroid. Every other game she's been a lackey of the Galactic Federation.


Actually she's never ordered, that's kinda the point of being a bounty hunter, they just ask her and if she says no they can't do anything. Even if you take the interpretation that she's not a bounty hunter, then only the first game can be interpreted as her being ordered there (actually says she was asked). I mean, super metroid also literally starts with her responding to a distress signal. Even fusion only has her been ordered after she crash her ship, the federation save her and loan her a ship (and the entire time she talk about how much she hates it). It's very clear that Samus is not ordered to do anything and she's a free agent.

If we go back to Ridley it's extremely clear she wasn't freaking out in earlier game since, you know, he doesn't usually grab her and trashed her around while she's literally paralyzed by fear (we know that cause as soon as Ridley show up the fight start and we can move around). I also remember what eventually get Samus to act up, someone saves her ass, something which literally never happened before. And the interpretation that he ran away is nonsense, here's Ridley running away:

https://youtu.be/DXgvgYm_UN4?t=5m

Here's Ridley at the end of the first boss fight

https://youtu.be/wJW1KcaD80k?t=1m13s

Notice his body literally breaking up into little piece? How exactly did Samus interpret that has "Oh well he just ran away"?
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Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
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Location: Windsor Ontario
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:33 pm Reply with quote
Retcons, yo. It's clear the original games didn't think that far ahead so later games sometimes have to pretend things went a certain way.

Ridley being the source of Samus's trauma wasn't even a thing until the manga established it. Then you look at Zero Mission where they have Samus standing in shock when Ridley swoops in at her.

meiam wrote:
I also remember what eventually get Samus to act up, someone saves her ass, something which literally never happened before.


The baby Metroid and SA-X say hello.

meiam wrote:
And the interpretation that he ran away is nonsense


Okay, then how come he shows up not dead again in each game?
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Lord Oink



Joined: 06 Jul 2016
Posts: 374
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:50 pm Reply with quote
[quote="meiam"Notice his body literally breaking up into little piece? How exactly did Samus interpret that has "Oh well he just ran away"?[/quote]

It's a video game. Super Metroid retcons a lot about the first game. Kraid and Ridley used to be the same size as Samus, but are now are clearly much larger than her. . Samus also goes from brown hair to blonde hair like Princess Peach. You can't expect much story in an NES game and most of Samus's backstory was invented later and integrated back into the games. When the first game was made I doubt they thought anything beyond the first game at the time. The closest you will get are the manga adaptions of the first and third games.
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:47 pm Reply with quote
Lord Oink wrote:
A new Metroid game would either have to be another prequel like Other M, or pull a Resident Evil 4 and say the Galactic Federation was dealt with between games since Samus is like a fugitive at the end of Fusion.


To be fair, Code Veronica does a pretty good job explaining how the events of Umbrella's downfall were set in motion. I think that if Code Veronica's storyline had been part of Resident Evil 3 there wouldn't have been as much of a disconnect between the two games.
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Red Fox of Fire



Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 334
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:42 am Reply with quote
I've been playing the Style Savvy: Fashion Forward demo and I quite like it. I'm thinking of picking it up in the coming days.

Lord Oink wrote:
American Metroid fans hate story and just want the game to be a storyless shooter like Halo or Doom like the Prime games were, since those were a lot of people's first games.

I have some expletives for you that would likely get me in trouble, so I'll leave them out.

Why did people hate Other M? Because its story and writing were bad and it neutered Samus' character. Not because it existed, because it was bad.

Why do people love the Prime trilogy (1 and 2 more than 3, though) so much? One reason is its story, both in its presentation and quality: it's not spoon-fed to you. It's enough to be there and be good but not too much to get in your way. It's actually the perfect way to tell a story in a game and if you think those games had no story, you're the one who doesn't care.

Don't go throwing out dumb stereotypes like that.
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NeoStrayCat



Joined: 14 Sep 2011
Posts: 395
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:30 am Reply with quote
Well, besides more ninty news, FF XV being delayed...again, and a niche title back from the past, I'm surprised not one soul is mentioning KOF XIV, c'mon guys. >.>

Besides being a casual fighting game player and all, and the abundance of marketing KOF XIV is going for lately, and also being a fan of the series so far, Its going to be great, lol. Also picking up its LE for good measure, lol. X3
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