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Answerman - How Much Anime Can REALLY Fit On A Blu-ray?


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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:07 pm Reply with quote
Kalessin wrote:
(though given that I use FreeBSD and Linux rather than Windows, using AviSynth is going to be a bit of a pain)

YEA! Another FOSS user! (Although I will be the 1st to admit that that I know nothing about FreeBSD and am not particularly adept at Linux.)
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:39 pm Reply with quote

You are not alone there, nobahn! My fondness of Linux has resulted in me never having used a Blu-ray before, and given the proprietary state of its decryption system, the media industry seems quite intent on keeping things this way...
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Mangaranga



Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:47 pm Reply with quote
eyevocal wrote:
The biggest problem I have with Sentai's Blu-Rays is their color banding (remaster and exchange the Colorful movie already, Sentai!), and I'm loathe to buy those crammed discs because of that. Which is why I wish they'd cut the crap and totally redo their BD mastering process from the ground up. Like, say...hiring Justin to do it.


When was the last time you bought a Sentai Blu-ray? I'll be the first to say that absolutely all of their Blu-rays until around very late 2014 are utter crap, but at that point they actually got someone who knows what they're doing on the job. There's a select few titles which I've heard look a bit rough due to contrast differences and bad source material (JP BDs look better than R1, but aren't always perfect by any means), but their output is FAR better than it ever was in the past. Even their re-releases of certain titles have received new encodes - e.g. the HOTD CEand Persona 4. Another thing to note here is that even when Sentai use two discs for a sub only show, their encoding is still done at sub 20mbps and is either just under or over the 47gb limit of a BD50. Shirobako Part 2? It would've fit on a single disc. It's funny how people complain about single disc releases when they've still been getting the same quality for the most part...

I'm not a fan of single disc releases by any means as I'd much rather have beautiful bloated 40mbps encodes like Japanese/Aniplex USA releases provide, but it goes to show how far having a good encoder goes when it comes to disc authoring. Even though they use a lot more space than Sentai, Funi are all over the place when it comes to quality, and anything Subatomic Digital does for Viz looks like trash regardless of the number of discs.
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Shiroi Hane
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:11 pm Reply with quote
EmperorBrandon wrote:
The picture for the article is Maoyuu

I will admit that I looked at the article question and the picture and immediately though "..it depends on the size of the boobs".
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:30 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
Matroska has a feature called "chapters" that enables encoders to include just one copy of the OP and ED and play it seamlessly within each of the episodes. Since the OP/ED constitutes three minutes per episode, that method saves 36 minutes of repetition in a thirteen-week series. Do Blu-rays have a similar feature? Is it used for anime production?
Ordered chapters are seamless branching in MKV files, but splitting the segments across multiple files is an extension to the spec.
Shiflan wrote:
Wouldn't it be possible to repeat the main portion of the opening (which would remain unchanged), and then store just the sections with differing credits?

Though maybe that would cause annoying pauses and/or not be worth the effort?
I don't think seamless branching is meant for short bursts(within the space of a single OP, you'd be asking it to jump several times for a single difference). For any episodes that share an OP or ED exactly, you could probably link to a single master segment, but I'm not sure if anybody's bothered with it. The feature's mostly used for scenes with on-screen text and the occasional movie for which there are only relatively minor differences between two editions.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:25 pm Reply with quote
Kalessin wrote:
given that I use FreeBSD and Linux rather than Windows, using AviSynth is going to be a bit of a pain

That's what virtual machines are good for. I have a Windows VM in my Linux sessions, and a Linux VM in my much less frequent Windows sessions. In my case I prefer Microsoft Access over any other SQL front end. It plays nicely with PostgreSQL using ODBC over a remote connection. So I keep a Windows VM around to run Access and do my taxes.
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ultimatemegax



Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 412
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:49 pm Reply with quote
relyat08 wrote:
Animegomaniac wrote:

Quality has nothing to do with the reason Japan only puts 2-3 episodes on BD, DVD or VHS. I imagine those are only 25 GB BDs and single layer DVDs but I've never gotten that confirmed.


I can confirm that for you right now. They definitely skew toward dual layer. After just checking my own collection, if the disc has 4 episodes on it, it is pretty likely that it'll be dual layer, if it is a volume release in general, it's probably about 70-80% likely that they'll be dual layer(regardless of episode count). Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere volumes are dual layer with 3 episodes per disc, Accel World are single layer(at least for ones I checked) with 3 episodes, Paranoia Agent Box set is dual layer with 4 episodes per disc, Tatami Galaxy Box is single layer with 3 episodes per disc, Soul Eater Box is dual layer, One Punch Man volumes are dual layer with 2 episodes(plus OVA) per disc, K-ON Box is dual layer, Hyouka volumes are dual layer, Gargantia volumes are dual layer, Haruhi Box is dual layer, Kanon(2006) box is dual layer, etc. In particular, it seems like more recent volume releases are almost ALL dual layer, while going back to like 2008-2011 it was a little more varied. Economy Blu-ray boxes seem to be more likely to either have single layer, or dual layer with up to 8 episodes on them. I think my Rahxephon Box has a dual layer disc with 8 episodes on it. I haven't seen any set with more packed on it than that.


Here's what is either in my collection or that I can personally verify (Hyouka Bd-Box) as seeing:

K-On! (S1) BD-Box: 3 dual layer discs (each w/4 episodes and 2/3 (disc 3 only) commentary tracks) 1 single layer disc (2 episodes with 2 audio commentary tracks plus bonus video content)
K-On!! (s2) BD-Box: 5 dual layer discs (1-4: 6 episodes each with 2/3 (disc 4 only) commentary tracks; disc 5: 3 episodes plus bonus video content)
Hyouka BD singles/volumes: 12 single layer discs with 2 episodes (except ep 11.5 OVA) each
Hyouka BD-Box: 4 dual layer discs with 6 episodes (discs 1-3) or 5 episodes w/bonus video content (disc 4)
Kanon BD-Box: 5 dual layer discs with 5 episodes each (disc 5 had 4 plus bonus video content)
Haruhi 2010 BD-Box: 8 dual layer discs. Discs 1, 3, 5 have 6 episodes on them, discs 2 & 4 have 5 episodes each on them, discs 6-8 are bonus video discs with at least 120 minutes of video content on each.
Haruhi 2014 BD-Box: 2 dual layer discs + 1 single layer disc. Disc 1 has episodes 1-5 and bonus video content, disc 2 has episodes 6-9, disc 3 has episodes 10-14

Hanasaku Iroha singles: 3/2 episodes volumes with bonus video content & 2 commentary tracks, single layers
Chuunibyou singles: 2 episode volumes w/bonus video content, single layers
Tamako singles: 2 episode volumes w/bonus video content, single layers
Sound! Euphonium singles: 2 episode volumes w/bonus video content, single layers

JP singles come on single layer BDs; it's only the boxes (of which Gargantia had 3 of) that pack episodes onto double layer discs.
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:48 pm Reply with quote
ultimatemegax wrote:

JP singles come on single layer BDs; it's only the boxes (of which Gargantia had 3 of) that pack episodes onto double layer discs.


Maybe I didn't look closely enough, but I'm pretty certain OPM and Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere, which I just checked this morning, were dual layer.

But, in any event, I guess I was off by quite a bit. I will blame the lighting in my room for not being able to clearly see the layer markings, or something like that...
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:07 pm Reply with quote
partially wrote:
Ergzay wrote:
You might want to get your eyes checked or possibly get a newer TV/screen that may be hiding the difference. SD (480p/360p) vs 720p is strongly different from each other even to a casual observer.


Not entirely, I know plenty of people that don't see the difference. And overall there isn't much of one for the overall image on some anime.


I'll back you up on that one. I've been to plenty of people's homes or other places where they have an SD setup to an HD TV and they don't know they're watching in SD.

A casual observer might be able to see the difference, but only if they're looking for it and they know what to look for. (I'd compare it to non-musicians not seeing the difference between a trumpet and a cornet, or non-bug-enthusiasts between any two species of fleas, until pointed out that they're different.)

Shiflan wrote:
I think it's for two reasons:

1) A typical modern show will be created in digipaint. It tends to have large areas all shaded the exact same color. Compare that to an older show that was hand painted and had film grain--the colors were nowhere near as consistent as digipaint. That takes more space to compress, and sometimes the algorithms don't play nice with the grain (like Justin mentioned).

2) Keep in mind I was talking about the early days of anime on DVD. At that time DVD was still a pretty new technology and people were still learning the best methods for encoding. There were many cases of poor digital transfers--not just in anime, but for major Hollywood movies too. Most of those problems have since been resolved.

These points may be largely moot now, but my experience has taught me to be leery of very high episode counts per disc.


Me, how much I care about video quality depends on how much I spent on it. I have a set of 5 DVDs that contain a collective 300 cartoon shorts, for instance. The quality's not very good, but I paid US$5 for it, so I really don't care. (In hindsight, I'm not really sure if it's bootlegged or not, but I got it at a Wal•Mart clearance bin.)

But thanks for the clarification. I know from compressing artwork how solid, flat colors seem to be much easier on a computer and the filesizes than something meant to look traditional, and I figured the same principle must be going on for video compression.
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0nsen



Joined: 01 Nov 2014
Posts: 256
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:35 am Reply with quote
If you're not watching anime in arm length of an 75 inch 4K TV you're doing it wrong anyway.
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 3650
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:28 am Reply with quote
Hmm, only 4-5 times more then a DVD? I would think there'd be more SD on BD when it comes to longer series then. Even if the final disc cost were similar, you'd think the smaller packaging would be a financial benefit as well.
I wonder if companies would be worried that buyers would expect it to be in HD just because it's on BD and would complain when they start watching...
Personally if it's never going to be re-done with a proper HD master, I wouldn't mind longer shows (anime or not) being put out on only a few BDs compared to dozens of DVDs.
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writerpatrick



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:07 pm Reply with quote
Much of the time it has to do with the size of screen you're watching it on. There's not a lot of difference between 1080 and 720 if you're looking at a 24 inch screen a few feet away. But when you get into 42 inch screens the difference becomes much more apparent. Of course the reason people get BluRay is that they want the higher resolution.
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M. Northstar



Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:13 pm Reply with quote
Shiflan wrote:
consignia wrote:
However, It wouldn't be any use, since the OPs and EDs are different for each episode, i.e. the staff who worked on a particular episode will be different.


Wouldn't it be possible to repeat the main portion of the opening (which would remain unchanged), and then store just the sections with differing credits?

Though maybe that would cause annoying pauses and/or not be worth the effort?


I know from Justin's previous articles that the subtitles function on Bluray isn't very forgiving of creativity, but couldn't you have one opening and ending animation, with the credits as separate overlays for each episode?
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