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Last edited by Redbeard 101 on Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

angelmcazares wrote:

Quote:

Short-term, Japanese licensors will not be happy about this arrangement. They can no longer play one against the other, and can probably expect a significant drop-off in license fee prices -- hopefully down to more sane and healthy levels.

But even if CR and FUNI are allowed to jointly acquire licenses, can't the Japanese licensors say "since you are now partners with more resources combined, you pay us $350,000 per episode"?

They could try but when the VAST majority of the NA market is now under one roof they can simply tell the Japanese no dice. Then what do they do? Sure they can sell to the rest but they will only be able to buy a select few shows. They won't be able to buy enough shows paying those ridiculously high fees to make it sustainable for the Japanese companies. AoA will simply keep on and this won't affect them much I wager. Sentai and Viz for example will only be able to purchase some. So then they're back to FuniRoll (like that name the best) and dropping the fees to be able to get enough tittles picked up to make it profitable enough. The problem is FuniRoll could do the same to NA fans. Buy these titles at this price or you get nothing. We've got 90% of all the titles you want so you gotta pay what we say. Hopefully they don't do that because if they did start gouging prices themselves they would cause more people to go back to more illicit ways of getting their anime.

I suspect this also might wind up eventually lowering the amount of shows produced each season. Which at this point might not be a bad thing honestly with how much is made each season now.

This sounds like all-around good news if handled properly. Funimation's Video Player sucks(at least for me) and Crunchyroll don't give physical releases or dubs to many shows which Funi excel at.

This partnership could even lead to Funimation physical release/dub for quite a few great unlicensed shows in the Crunchyroll catalogue like Symphogear. And that's not to mention all of the other great airing shows they will now have access too.

Of course if not handled correctly it may not fulfill the dream, I for one have a strong feeing that if this deal ends up succeeding then the Crunchyroll's subscription will also have to increase. But for now I'll remain optimistic and hope this leads to greener pastures for both companies.

angelmcazares wrote:

Answerman wrote:

the fees for some shows well over the US$200,000 per episode mark -- $2.6 Million for a 13-episode show

Oh my god! Things are way, way crazier than I anticipated. I guess companies learned nothing from the last anime bubble. I want to believe that those insane fees only apply to the My Hero Academias and One-Punch Mans. Because if those fees are close to the standard across the board, NISA will never publish anime again and Sentai will soon be forced out of the market.

That was my first thought, I'm sure that most shows aren't nearly that high, but this is still significant. The figures I've looked at, especially in relation to the entire budget of a TV series, makes prices that high seem ludicrous. Of course I believe Justin, but it is surprising, since licensing costs that high literally put some TV series in the black by themselves. And people still try to say that the West doesn't matter to Japan... Rolling Eyes

Quote:

Short-term, Japanese licensors will not be happy about this arrangement. They can no longer play one against the other, and can probably expect a significant drop-off in license fee prices -- hopefully down to more sane and healthy levels.

But even if CR and FUNI are allowed to jointly acquire licenses, can't the Japanese licensors say "since you are now partners with more resources combined, you pay us $350,000 per episode"?

I imagine they could, but I also expect that doing something like that would just result in Funi and CR saying, "sorry, nope". And just not licensing that product. Unless they feel it is worth it for them, of course.

Last edited by DeTroyes on Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

1) Does this mean Funimation will now be part of the VRV streaming line-up that Crunchyroll signed up to last June (and which is suppose to launch this fall)?

2) Some of us don't have game systems but still want to watch our anime on our huge HiDef TV's. Does this mean they'll finally do app support for LG, Samsung & Sony devices (TV's, DVD's, DVR's, etc.)? (I'm tired of having to go through the clunky/slow on-board web browser to watch Crunchyroll and Funimation on my Samsung Smart TV).

I hereby propose that this new partnership be dubbed CrunchyFun, as if it's a new type of snack food promising much more fun and much less calories.
Fun & Crunchy also works, and emphasizes the non-merging nature of the partnership.

So, when do all we subscribers get cake? Unless too many bakers in Texas are somehow morally opposed to company/company partnerships. I guess I'd just have to remind them of the immortal words of Mitt Romney: "Corporations are people, my friend!" Very Happy

(I know that neither Funimation nor Crunchyroll are technically stock market trade-able corporations, but that ideology should apply even more so to smaller, privately owned business, shouldn't it? Wink

)

Now lets see if this partnership lasts longer than the one Funimation had with NicoNico. Or at the very least that the breakup is much more public and entertaining.

There have obviously been stories of the cost of licencing shows drastically increasing over the last few years but I was hoping it wouldn't be quite so close to pre-'bubble bursting' numbers. It also doesn't help to hear rumblings of Japanese rights owners pulling underhanded stunts, such as licencing dvd/bd/streaming rights for titles to different publishers in the UK. Eventually those companies are going to stop trying to cripple each other for the rewards and try the safety in numbers tactic. The whole situation comes across like trying to stand up to a bully, which is as ridiculous a comparison as it is depressing. I guess we'll have to see how the original licensers respond to this action - I'd be shocked if there weren't unwelcome repercussions further down the line.

It also makes me curious about the recent partnership Funimation has with Anime Limited to help distribute their titles in the UK. It means Funimation now has a partnership with the biggest dedicated legal streaming site in the UK & the biggest publisher in the UK - that's quite a few hands in pies. I can't figure out whether this is a desperate attempt to recoup costs in other territories or if they're just taking advantage of the limited output that Anime Limited & MVM (currently the only big players in the market) can provide?

DeTroyes wrote:

1) Does this mean Funimation will now be part of the VRV streaming line-up that Crunchyroll signed up to last June (and which is suppose to launch this fall)?

2) Some of us don't have game systems but still want to watch our anime on our huge HiDef TV's. Does this mean they'll finally do app support for LG, Samsung & Sony devices (TV's, DVD's, DVR's, etc.)? (I'm tired of having to go through the clunky/slow on-board web browser to watch Crunchyroll and Funimation on my Samsung Smart TV).

1) Good question!

2) I don't have a game system, but I *love* my Roku! I believe that Roku gets every streaming channel currently available as an app, including Crunchyroll, Funimation, Netflix, TubiTV (which is carrying Viz stuff), Amazon, Hulu (although I'm still waiting for a Yahoo TV app, I might wait forever!), Viewster (which also has some anime exclusives-like Dr. Irabu's Office), Crackle, and even The Anime Network. I highly recommend investing in a Roku, waiting for all those services to make apps for every company's Smart TV and Blu Ray player would be a pain.

angelmcazares wrote:

@samuelp

But what is so wrong with China becoming the biggest anime market outside Japan? If China is willing to pay $1,000,000 for 12 episodes, and the U.S. is only willing to pay $300,000 for the same 12 episodes, it will be stupid for Japanese companies to stop licensing to the U.S. just because they are not offering the same money as China.

Selling shows rights for $300,000 is still profit for Japanese anime companies.

When you provide the biggest % of the income/funding, you get the biggest share of the attention/control. It's not just about willingness to license.
Remember when US companies could demand simulcasts without a holdback? What if the Chinese companies get annoyed that people are ripping US streams ahead of time and decide to demand that streaming in NA needs to be delayed by a week.
Or on the production side: which company is gonna be the first one to get materials delivered on time: the Japanese studios have limited man power and it's only natural they'd prioritize the biggest market.
So no, there's nothing inherently wrong with China beginning to dwarf the NA market, but it would inevitably have negative consequences to it. And the bigger the gap, the less power you have as a licensor.

+ 光 wrote:

Quote:

This partnership may last for a decade, or it may last for a single season. But in the mean time, having nearly all of the anime in one place sure is a big win for the fans. (The ones in North America, anyway.)

4 out of the 6 Funimation titles that joined Crunchyroll are available in my country (not North America or Canada). So, I'm not too upset about that. It's just the dubs that are going to be Funimation exclusive (which they have been up until now anyway), so it's not that different than before, I just have more subtitled shows to watch now.

If I'm really interested in the dub of a Crunchy show (say, Bungou Stray Dogs, Orange or Kabaneri of the Iron Fortress, for example), I'm not entirely against buying the BD/ DVD release.

The only Funimation title I noticed to be available on Crunchyroll in my country is Fairy Tail and even that only for series 2. Series 1 is still legally unavailable here, which is shame.

corinthian wrote:

As one of those fans that does want dubs and subs, I'm not thrilled about having to pay for two services (and to be honest I probably won't, sorry Crunchyroll).

If you ONLY watch FUNi products, then it would theoretically be a net "loss" for you (I didn't read the FAQ, but from what I understand FUNi is lowering the price of their subscriptions to at least somewhat reflect the change). However, if you want to watch more than just FUNi titles, you're already paying for more than one service RIGHT NOW. For the VAST majority of fans, it should be a net positive to either:
* Get most titles consolidated on one streaming site (even if sub only)
* Get most titles consolidated on one site and pay a "smaller than currently" fee to get dubs on another site.

Or, to put it in hard terms:
(Before announcement) Crunchyroll subscription ($7/month) + "Full" FUNi subscription ($8/month) = $15
(After announcement) Crunchyroll ($7/month) + FUNi ($6/month) = $13

So, if you want SAME state as before announcement, you now get $2 discount. It's even better if you only wanted subs because, before this:
CR ($7) + FUNi (sub only: $5) = $12
now:
CR = $7

Again, the ONLY people who would see negative effects is people who were "FUNi only", for them, you either lose subs or pay $5 more for MORE content than before. So one could argue its STILL a "net win", but its understandable if viewed as a loss if you don't like non-FUNi content.

samuelp wrote:

What if the Chinese companies get annoyed that people are ripping US streams ahead of time and decide to demand that streaming in NA needs to be delayed by a week.
Or on the production side: which company is gonna be the first one to get materials delivered on time: the Japanese studios have limited man power and it's only natural they'd prioritize the biggest market.

I don't see much problem with 1-2 weeks delays of simulcasts and physical released being pushed back 2-3 months. That will not be the ideal situation, but I will happily take that over the N.A. anime industry going up in flames, trying to outbid China's deep pockets.

I hope N.A companies are smart and that they don't let themselves be bullied by greedy Japanese companies.

samuelp wrote:

So no, there's nothing inherently wrong with China beginning to dwarf the NA market, but it would inevitably have negative consequences to it. And the bigger the gap, the less power you have as a licensor.

If the Hollywood movie recent trends are forecasting the future, then American audiences may as well just start adjusting to that now, because IF (and granted, it's not an insignificant "if") the Chinese government allows foreign entertainment to "flourish" then that train seems to be well on its way.

mgosdin wrote:

Dop.L wrote:

Hopefully this partnership will spread to the rest of the world,

Maybe, Maybe Not. The question is, at what price? Too high and the viewers might turn to the dark side again.

I do not think it is a matter of price, since they can't jack prices on the rest of the world for the same reasons they can't in the USA. The real question is when?. This announcement is a preamble of the fall season negotiations, which will test the long term viability of this alliance. Then if the winter season negotiations work out nearly seamlessly, then they might try to look to another non english speaking markets.

Crunchy will not get rights outside the USA/Canada to Funi shows until they have dubbed to spanish many heavy hitters (i.e. Attack on Titan, Jojo) so that they do both can both début them at the same time. I have no doubt this will be highly profitable since in latinamerica many people will not watch anything unless it. Maybe later they will expand to portuguese & french.

Of course if they do not hire new people to do the extra work (dubbing contracts, doing region 4 dvd releases) outside the USA, this might never happen at all.

Agent355 wrote:

waiting for all those services to make apps for every company's Smart TV and Blu Ray player would be a pain.

Since LG, Samsung & Sony between them cover the vast majority of the market (I think < 80%), you'd think those three at least would be supported. Or at the very least, prompt everyone to get together and come up with a standard set of protocols for device apps that would work across all systems.

I thought about getting a Roku but have been holding off to see what systems VRV ends up supporting. If they don't issue apps for LG, Samsung and/or Sony, I'll probably have to break down and get one. Luckily at the moment I have a mound of unwatched DVDs plus access to Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, and Crackle, so that should keep the anime fix satiated. For the moment.

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Answerman - Why Are Funimation And Crunchyroll Getting Married?