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A dedicated General Anime Discussion forum?


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Past



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3235
Location: China (Searching for Jusenkyo)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:50 am Reply with quote
If you look at the Anime forum you'll see that it is dominated by title specific threads. I'm not criticizing what Stark is doing but I really have no interest in being involved in episodic commentary on the latest series. There are a lot of series coming out so while I applaud you Stark for covering a large portion of them every season, I apologize if I am stepping on any sort of sense of self gratification by indirectly saying "knock it off!"

I miss the ANN Anime forum that was filled with different sorts of questions about anime, fandom and many of the quirky things about Japanese pop culture that we struggle to understand. Those all just seem to get pushed under the rug with the long list of titles now occupying the forum. And it seems to cause problems if you want to ask a question that might be directly associated with a specific title but doesn't really discuss the content of the series. For example, "Is Re:Zero a big hit?" Would I ask this in the Re:Zero thread or should I make a new thread?

In short: I really think if people want to have title specific threads, since there are so many anime available to watch so these sorts of threads generate a lot of forum traffic, they need a separate forum section. Then general questions or discussions unspecific to particular anime can be viewed for people who are more interested in that type of forum communication.

Thank you for considering this change.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:37 pm Reply with quote
This problem has only worsened with the doubling that occurs with both overall series threads and the newer episode threads. I'm with Past. If you are going to encourage the discussion of individual shows and episodes, those threads should be in a separate forum.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:01 pm Reply with quote
I'm not sure I see a problem to be fixed here.

If you do or do not want to participate in a title specific discussion, they are well identified and can be viewed or avoided as you wish. There is nothing to prevent you or anyone from opening a new thread for discussion of anime in general as long as you adhere to the requirement to present your view up front.

That sort of discussion did not go away because it was being suppressed. People still do open such threads, unfortunately no one seems to be interested in participating in them. Have you been following the forum recently? If you took out all of the title specific threads you would be left with the contests as the only threads generating much response. Even some of the title specific threads only get a couple of posts a week.

As a side note, if you want to know if a running series is popular you have the General Questions thread for a yes/no answer and the Best and Worst of the Week thread in Talkback for a comparative answer. Beyond that I don't think you can have a thread limited to a single title that doesn't get into content.
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Past



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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Location: China (Searching for Jusenkyo)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:21 am Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
I'm not sure I see a problem to be fixed here.

That sort of discussion did not go away because it was being suppressed. People still do open such threads, unfortunately no one seems to be interested in participating in them.
Your response does point out that general anime discussion generates little interest, but could that be because people have to browse past the first page of threads to get to at least fairly recent general discussions that are posted? I'm not saying that poses a significant challenge to anyone but you can't deny it contributes to threads getting overlooked as opposed to there being a forum section separated from the specific title threads.

I joined in 2006, well before streaming anime days, and I remember once the majority of threads were non-title specific, general anime discussion types. I think because so much anime is readily available these days gave rise to this idea that the ANN forum is strictly for discussing shows and episodes. But is it? The Anime forum says "General Anime Discussion." yet there is really very little of that. There's new anime fans every day and as long as we have a Necroposting policy, it's perfectly acceptable (and preferred) to start a new thread for a question that might have already been asked in an old thread.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:58 am Reply with quote
@Past

I access the forum from a computer, so depending on what hardware you are using you may have a different idea of what a "page" consists of. That said, the current page goes back to September 3rd so I don't see that general discussions are being pushed off the page.

I come here daily, which you would more or less have to do to sustain a discussion. I seldom see more than a handful of new posts in the anime forum, including the title specific posts. Like you, I would like to see a lot more general discussion, I just don't think the title specific threads are the problem. Any non sticky thread goes to the top of the heap when a new post is made. The title specific threads are there because they get the posts.

I don't know where the new fans are going for their discussions. I've seen a suggestion that they have migrated from forums to social media such as Twitter or Facebook but I can't confirm that as I don't participate in them. It is possible that a fair number of potential posters have moved to un-moderated forums where they can be as nasty as they want to be. If so I don't miss them.

One problem seems to be that a lot of people have difficulty setting up a topic for discussion and laying out their own position. The current thread about sympathetic murderers has that problem. I'm not sure there is a solution for that.
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Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:17 am Reply with quote
I feel like the amount of active users visiting the anime forum has declined somewhat over the past few years so there's that.

Past wrote:
For example, "Is Re:Zero a big hit?" Would I ask this in the Re:Zero thread or should I make a new thread?


I think you could make your own thread about that. If the mods feel like it would create a lot of discussion then they probably won't merge it with the Re:Zero thread. In fact there was a similar thread about Sword Art Online about half a year ago. That generated quite a lot of conversation.

Alan45 wrote:
One problem seems to be that a lot of people have difficulty setting up a topic for discussion and laying out their own position. The current thread about sympathetic murderers has that problem. I'm not sure there is a solution for that.


They tend to be people who probably aren't used to discussing things in such depth and English might not be their first language. They aren't used to structuring their arguments and just kinda write what they feel. And then when the users, who seem like massive shadowy figures with lasers shooting out of their eyes, come out to lay down their thoughts in perfect format, filled with in depth analysis and difficult words, those users just tend to run away.

Yeah, I'm a bit envious at the people who are so good at transforming their thoughts into words. I have a hard time doing that so I tend to avoid the really in depth conversations, but I try to take part when I can. I like that the users here are so good at breaking down shows though. Reading those conversations help me learn to do it myself and they teach me a bit of English too since it's not my first language.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:56 am Reply with quote
@Cam0

I realize that some of our posters have English as a second language. Though some of those are more fluent in writing than many of our native English speakers. I never cease to be amazed at how international the forum is. I do tend to get a bit irritated when someone makes a reference to "my country" when there is no indication of what that is. However we also have a fair number of native English speakers who are not trying or simply are not good a being coherent in writing. We have a surprising number of threads where the original poster never participates again, you may be correct that they are overwhelmed.

Don't feel bad about your participation in some threads, you aren't the only one. Often I have thoughts on the subject but some get lost in the translation to writing. Also my keyboard skills suck and I often have to shorten things on that basis. Of course I'm not sure attempting to be concise is a fault.
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Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:49 am Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
I do tend to get a bit irritated when someone makes a reference to "my country" when there is no indication of what that is.


I tend to avoid stating where I'm from because my extreme paranoia makes me think that someone who knows me might google my username, read all of my embarrassing comments, find out that I'm a Finn, connect the pieces and then confront me about it. I have a friend who actually might do that so... Laughing

In fact if I google my username + anime, my myanimelist comes up as the fifth result. And if I google my other common username + anime the first result is the anime character guessing game thread for some reason. Oh god... I think I have to find my tin foil hat. Well thankfully I believe google results vary from person to person.
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Psycho 101
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:17 pm Reply with quote
Past wrote:
Alan45 wrote:
I'm not sure I see a problem to be fixed here.

That sort of discussion did not go away because it was being suppressed. People still do open such threads, unfortunately no one seems to be interested in participating in them.
Your response does point out that general anime discussion generates little interest, but could that be because people have to browse past the first page of threads to get to at least fairly recent general discussions that are posted? I'm not saying that poses a significant challenge to anyone but you can't deny it contributes to threads getting overlooked as opposed to there being a forum section separated from the specific title threads.

I joined in 2006, well before streaming anime days, and I remember once the majority of threads were non-title specific, general anime discussion types. I think because so much anime is readily available these days gave rise to this idea that the ANN forum is strictly for discussing shows and episodes. But is it? The Anime forum says "General Anime Discussion." yet there is really very little of that. There's new anime fans every day and as long as we have a Necroposting policy, it's perfectly acceptable (and preferred) to start a new thread for a question that might have already been asked in an old thread.


I've been here as long as you Past, albeit the first 2 years I lurked. I do agree that back then before streaming the majority of Anime section threads were more generalized, or should I say on other topics beyond simply shows themselves. With the rise of streaming obviously that changed. Times change, things change. That's just how it works. The Anime section is obviously not just for discussing shows. With the plethora of new shows each season any non-title related threads do wind up on page 2 or further rather quickly. Especially when series discussion threads will garner 2 or 3 times the amount of posts in the same period of time.

I would say if someone is that interested just look past page 1. Unfortunately most people just simply don't bother to do that, same goes for using subforum areas, and if it isn't on page 1 they don't care. Part of me can understand that but part still thinks that's being a bit lazy. Same goes for the necroposting. We've said time and time again if you want tor revive an old thread simply ask a mod if it's ok. If it's a legit thread with substance more often than not the mods will ok it. The rule is there more to keep timed out and irrelevant threads under the floorboards. We can't go nitpicking the rules and making them 5 miles long though. They're long enough as is. So the necroposting rule is basic and generalized as it is. Again, if there's a thread anyone wants to post in and it is old just ask. This goes back to my point of part of me feels it's just laziness on the part of some people. They don't want to put the work in to scan past page 1, to ask a mod if reviving a thread is ok, or then stick with it to make it relevant. I get it though, we've become a "now" society who wants things quicker and faster and our attention spans are shorter. So having threads for discussing on page 1 is how you'll get the most discussion. Plus do you honestly think even without the necroposting rule we wouldn't have the same amount of people asking the same questions with new threads over and over? Do you really think those same people would take the time to see there's a thread already for that topic as is? Call me a pessimist but I doubt it.

Now with that all being said I personally wouldn't be opposed to such an idea to keep them separate. That's definitely an admin decision but I would be for it simply to try it out. I will say what I think is part of the problem is the duplication of series discussion threads. By that I mean the official series discussion threads in the anime section and then the streaming ones in the talback. Most people do not want to go to 2 different threads to discuss the same thing. Plus the whole spoiler tag issue becomes more of a problem remembering which one needs it and which one doesn't and when they are needed etc. So then you get a bunch of tv series discussion threads in the Anime section that get little to no traffic in comparison to the streaming threads for the same show.
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nobahn
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:06 pm Reply with quote
Cam0 wrote:
I tend to avoid stating where I'm from because [...] someone who knows me might [...] find out that I'm a Finn,

I'm pretty damned certain that there's another Finnish poster on these boards, but for the life of me I can't recall the username.....
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Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 2987
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:50 pm Reply with quote
There are 2 that I know of. Yuri Fan seems to be Finnish and I'm pretty sure that Blanchimont is also a Finn. Hopefully I'm not breaking some kind of code here, but both of 'em have stated so in these forums so it's public information.
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nobahn
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:04 pm Reply with quote

Blanchimont was the one I was thinking of.
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Past



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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Location: China (Searching for Jusenkyo)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:43 am Reply with quote
Psycho 101 wrote:
Plus do you honestly think even without the necroposting rule we wouldn't have the same amount of people asking the same questions with new threads over and over? Do you really think those same people would take the time to see there's a thread already for that topic as is? Call me a pessimist but I doubt it.
I think newcomers or new fans who wonder why no one responds to an old thread they dug up (or why others express annoyance) might have another reason to be discouraged from asking more questions or creating discussions. What I was getting at was assessing the impact of more separate threads being created in an already crowded forum (in terms of thread numbers). Necroposting has the benefit of lowering the total number of threads, so I was just pondering one way to keep those lazy users from having to browse through so many pages of threads if they are looking for interesting ones. Well.. I think most necroposting occurs when people find a thread using the search function and comment on it, not by browsing through pages of threads. My proposal is not really about necroposting anyway, it's just a small related thing.

I like your idea of a trial basis or perhaps a poll might be in order.

Oh and to answer your question about pages, Alan, I'm accessing this site on a Windows laptop set at 1366 pixels wide and a fairly small font size. A page with my browser maxed is about 50 threads.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:24 am Reply with quote
I have some thoughts/comments that might be relevant.

First, could somebody from ANN tell us if the creation of a new forum is even a possibility?
If not, then this discussion is moot.

I think that the number of threads on each page of the forum index is set by the forum software and does not change with our browser or display settings.
Could somebody who knows please confirm, or deny, that?

Right now the first page of the Anime Forum index has more than eight days of posts on it, for me. If I visit the forum at least once per week I would not miss any new posts because they were pushed off of the first page.
Anybody who visits less frequently should expect to look at more than the first page to see what is new since his last visit.

Allowing necroposting would not reduce the number of threads on the first page.
The difference would be that instead of having a new thread on the first page you would have an old thread that was moved from page 23 to the first page.

As for the idea of having a separate forum for series discussions, I do not have any strong feeling about that one way or the other.
But I do think that it might possibly have a negative effect on the general anime discussions by reducing the number of people who visit that forum.
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Psycho 101
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:17 am Reply with quote
Touma wrote:
I have some thoughts/comments that might be relevant.

First, could somebody from ANN tell us if the creation of a new forum is even a possibility?
If not, then this discussion is moot.

While I am in no way part of the admin here I can say, as one who is an admin elsewhere on a forum running the same platform, yes it is possible. Adding new areas to the forum is actually rather easy in the admin control panel. I imagine it's a bit harder here then elsewhere given the structure of the site and how articles link to certain areas etc. But to answer your question yes, it definitely should be possible.

Now that's simply creating the new section within the forum. Whether or not the admin WANT to or WOULD is an entirely different matter. I also know the forum is eventually going to get an upgrade. All he focus and time/money/energy is right now going to the encyclopedia overhaul. That's a massive project and is taking it's due time. Once that's done with I know Zac and Tempest have said they do plan to upgrade the forum. So they might not want to create a new section in the forums now and simply wait until then. Maybe they'd be open to trying it now to see if it's worth considering later in the forum upgrade. I can't answer that part.
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