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John Thacker



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 536
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:24 pm Reply with quote
Cameos, on the other hand, don't really seem to present the same sort of problem, even if by different creators. Nuku Nuku characters in Geobreeders (same director), Yawara and Jigoro in Project A-ko 3 (which actually happened before Yawara! debuted as a TV series), even stuff like in Kimagure Orange Road characters going to watch the Touch movie. Slightly different than cameos are parodies which are protected in the US, but are not technically legally protected in Japan. (However, complaints have to be brought by the copyright holder, which effectively means that as long as someone isn't offended enough to complain it's fine... but see what held up Shirobako and Osumatsu-san. And then there are ones where the creator is the same, removing other issues: Dirty Pair in Crusher Joe, the Ga Rei characters in Tokyo ESP's first episode, or when Arale and Dr. Slump appear in that one Dragon Ball episode.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:40 pm Reply with quote
As someone who sat through both of thos Toriko crossovers, I can safely say that people aren't missing anything by not having them included on the One Piece sets. They were painfully-obvious attempts by Shounen Jump and Toei to piggyback a new franchise onto the massive success of a well-established one, and given Toriko's sales numbers it didn't exactly work out. The double crossover with DBZ was even more awkward: "Watch the meet-up of two legendary casts of characters from absolute juggernaut franchises...oh, and these other people too I guess." Neither of them instilled any desire for me to seek out more Toriko, that's for sure. At least with Detective Conan and Lupin you have two wildly-successful franchises in their own rights, and the master-thief-vs-master-detective dynamic was a much more natural initial setup.

I always find it amazing just how much pull original content creators in Japan get over adaptations of their works. It's probably a better system overall than the Western model, where original creators often have absolutely no say and can wind up getting completely hosed by godawful cash-grabs, but I think there has to be a happy medium. What works in one media format doesn't necessarily work in another, and there have definitely been anime productions hamstrung by over-protective creators unwilling to let the people actually experienced in that medium take the lead. On the other hand sometimes you get cases like the author of Mushishi, who apparently liked what Artland was doing with her property enough to drop off homemade desserts for them. Very Happy
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Wrial Huden



Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 146
Location: McKinney, TX
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:44 pm Reply with quote
I wouldn't think anime crossovers were commonplace! I figure character crossovers happen more frequently in American comic books and cartoons.

The only examples of anime crossovers I can think of are questionable at best. Kei and Yuri (and Mughi?) of the Dirty Pair made their first appearance in Crusher Joe (the movie, I believe) by way of a drive-in movie screen within the film itself. I understand, in turn, Crusher Joe appeared briefly in Dirty Pair: Project Eden. I didn't really notice the latter. I'll have to go back and watch it again.

In Riding Bean, we see a character named Rally Vincent assisting Bean Bandit, a blonde with a different character design than the one we all know from the Gunsmith Cats OVA series and manga.
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Animechic420



Joined: 25 Sep 2012
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Location: A Cave Filled With Riches
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:46 pm Reply with quote
So they won't continue dubbing the rest of Toriko??? Confused

You know what? It probably doesn't matter, now. The Toriko franchise took a weird turn for the worst. The anime wasn't as awesome or violent as the manga, the dub took away the cursing and replaced them with dumb food puns, and the manga isn't all that popular anymore.

It did have potential, but to me, Shima needs to work on his character development.

The OVA was really good, though.


Last edited by Animechic420 on Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:36 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Mewzard



Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 129
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:59 pm Reply with quote
It's a damn shame things never took off, as I'd argue Toriko is the best thing to run in Jump for the last several years (I'd even put it above One Piece slightly, though both One Piece and Toriko are in my top ten favorite Jump series of all time list).

Too bad the anime was butchered in several ways and gave a filler ending to ruin my favorite arc.

The crossover with DBZ was also not the best timed. If it happened now, Goku might have gotten a worthy challenge and really had fun given where Toriko is in its end game.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:04 pm Reply with quote
John Thacker wrote:
, Yawara and Jigoro in Project A-ko 3 (which actually happened before Yawara! debuted as a TV series), even stuff like in Kimagure Orange Road characters going to watch the Touch movie.


Or, because similar studios or animation directors were involved, C-ko in Project A-Ko 3 going to see the KOR Movie, and Baby Lum and Ran run by her on the street... Laughing

Usually crossovers involve the same studio, if the studio is notoriously self-marketing--
With AIC/Pioneer, I remember seeing the El-Hazard teacher show up as a cameo in Tenchi's school, and having no idea who he was.
Or Artmic mixing the Gall Force and Bubblegum Crisis characters together for Scramble Wars.
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SkerllyF



Joined: 02 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:25 pm Reply with quote
Mewzard wrote:
It's a damn shame things never took off, as I'd argue Toriko is the best thing to run in Jump for the last several years (I'd even put it above One Piece slightly, though both One Piece and Toriko are in my top ten favorite Jump series of all time list).

Too bad the anime was butchered in several ways and gave a filler ending to ruin my favorite arc.


So no one here wants to admit that at least the anime works for some people despite being PG-13? Because for me, it worked. I think the blood has no relevance, other than depicting how cruel Toriko´s universe is, but I got the message without the blood. What sells this franchise is its strange food world and the people in it. So don´t offend me and other people that think the same.

It´s quite a shame that this is maybe the most overpromoted manga from Shonen Jump. When they should´ve let the audience acknowledge the good points of it for ourselves, they sold it like "it can compete with the Big 3". Toriko will be always an uncomprehended franchise.

One thing is for sure: For as much as its manga fans overpraise it as the best, NOR MADHOUSE, UFOTABLE OR BONES(the ones people think they do miracles) could make the series comparable to Dragon Ball, or heck, comparable to some mid-tier franchises on Jump. It doesn´t have that big popularity.
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Mewzard



Joined: 30 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:50 pm Reply with quote
Well, Toriko's anime failed in several regards as to being a faithful adaptation (in censorship, in making a filler character recurring through the whole show, in changing the Cooking Festival Arc's ending, etc). Not even counting that Toei has not been doing particularly great animation for TV series in recent years. I love the unique foods, the setting, the characters, the fights, how it all comes together. But the anime had flaws, and I'm sorry if acknowledging them offends you.

They certainly wanted to get more competing series with the Big 3, probably for when they eventually ended (and two of the three have).

Toei did most of the animation for the series, besides some Jump Super Anime Tour Specials, so that's not really fair to say that a series by said people couldn't have done better.

Popularity doesn't equate quality in any case. Tons of series that are objectionably terrible find success in the world for one reason or another (be it movies, tv, music, comics, etc). Toriko's not popular (not anymore at the very least), but many aspects of it make it one of Jump's best from my experience of many Jump manga spanning from the 80s to modern series.
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SkerllyF



Joined: 02 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:10 pm Reply with quote
Mewzard wrote:
Well, Toriko's anime failed in several regards as to being a faithful adaptation (in censorship, in making a filler character recurring through the whole show, in changing the Cooking Festival Arc's ending, etc). Not even counting that Toei has not been doing particularly great animation for TV series in recent years. I love the unique foods, the setting, the characters, the fights, how it all comes together. But the anime had flaws, and I'm sorry if acknowledging them offends you.


But I mean, blinded manga fans can´t recognize that the series worked for some people despite being PG-13. Despite the flaws, how can anyone be so mind-blinded? It´s selfish to say the least. If I was a dedicated fan, I would acknowledge the flaws, but say that it works despite being PG-13
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Gemnist



Joined: 10 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:11 pm Reply with quote
@Skerlly I think Mewzard was referring to the quality of the series as a whole, not its popularity. The only thing really comparable to DBZ and One Piece is Naruto; even Bleach lost its way and is now only really popular in the West.

The problem with the lack of blood is that it shows a lack of progression. While the Big Three were noted at the time for their accessibility, now that their audience is a decade and a half older, they expect to have some sort of edge. Appealing to kids sometimes is fine, but constantly being all rosy without having adult plot points such as people getting impaled by gigantic flaming hands or a fourteen-year-old snapping necks, dismembering people, and tearing out organs (okay, not THAT violent, though that does happen in Naruto), people are going to get a little uninterested. Unlike the other studios you mentioned (most notably Madhouse, who went ahead and made both Death Note and even HxH a lot darker than they were as manga), Toei seems to keep living in simpler times. And it's not just Toriko that suffered it; World Trigger also suffered from these problems.

Now as for crossovers, I really wish that they would have licensed the One Piece and Toriko crossover, as well as the one with DBZ. It just seems like it should have happened, since it's supposed to be the first episode of Toriko, and apparently Funimation is skipping over it with the home media release. It only seems right, since they are owned on both sides of the spectrum by the same company.
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Mewzard



Joined: 30 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:26 pm Reply with quote
SkerllyF wrote:
But I mean, blinded manga fans can´t recognize that the series worked for some people despite being PG-13. Despite the flaws, how can anyone be so mind-blinded? It´s selfish to say the least. If I was a dedicated fan, I would acknowledge the flaws, but say that it works despite being PG-13


I never once said it didn't work for some people, or didn't have merit. So, the use of "blinded" and "selfish" really aren't appreciated. You're being awfully presumptive about my intent in your posts. All I spoke of was my personal experience with the series.

I was just noting some issues in the anime, not decrying the whole thing or its fans. Toei Animation's TV work as a whole I've had issues with in recent years (and even at their prime, it wasn't perfect). Their music and voice acting are often great, but they've almost always censored anime (Fist of the North Star and Saint Seiya were censored, along with Dragon Ball a little, though they did up the violence in a few scenes), and their animation is inconsistent at best, and more frequently as of late, they've really put out subpar animation. I've certainly enjoyed their live action work more in many series over the past few years.

The mistakes of an anime can have an impact on the manga. Look at Saint Seiya, it was regularly competing with Dragon Ball for years in Jump, but the ratings for the anime dropped like a rock after the budget was slashed, the writer and director changed, and following the most popular arc with a 20-something episode filler Arc. After the anime's cancellation, the manga went down in rankings and was forced to end early in the Arc after the anime's last.

Regardless about my personal feelings about the Toriko anime, it's premature ending certainly hurt Toriko's manga (something I didn't want, I would have loved to have seen the anime hit the Gourmet World adventure proper). It's too bad it couldn't have had a chance to go further (and not have changed my favorite arc's ending).
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Wyvern



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:42 pm Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
The double crossover with DBZ was even more awkward: "Watch the meet-up of two legendary casts of characters from absolute juggernaut franchises...oh, and these other people too I guess."


People waited years for an animated DBZ/One Piece crossover, and when we got it, it felt like Toriko's cast were a bunch of freeloaders who crashed the party and ruined the fun. It also felt so transparently desperate. Like "what's that, Japanese kids, you're still not into Toriko, even though he met Luffy that one time? Well, what if, um....Goku showed up, too? Yeah, that's right, Goku LOVES Toriko! Bet you think he's pretty cool now, right? Right? Oh God, please buy some merchandise, this franchise is dying."
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SkerllyF



Joined: 02 Sep 2016
Posts: 244
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:44 pm Reply with quote
Gemnist wrote:
World Trigger also suffered from these problems.


Pacing, animation so flashy you can´t follow the battles well... yes it´s bad on those regards, but the manga is PG actually, so that´s not a problem for them
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Gemnist



Joined: 10 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:55 pm Reply with quote
SkerllyF wrote:
Gemnist wrote:
World Trigger also suffered from these problems.


Pacing, animation so flashy you can´t follow the battles well... yes it´s bad on those regards, but the manga is PG actually, so that´s not a problem for them


The Toriko anime also had those problems toward the end.
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Animechic420



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:36 pm Reply with quote
Gemnist wrote:
SkerllyF wrote:
Gemnist wrote:
World Trigger also suffered from these problems.


Pacing, animation so flashy you can´t follow the battles well... yes it´s bad on those regards, but the manga is PG actually, so that´s not a problem for them


The Toriko anime also had those problems toward the end.

In my opinion, the only thing that could "save" the Toriko anime now is for it to have a reboot. Get rid of Toei and being back Ufotable for the animation again.
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