Forum - View topicAnswerman - Is Working To Death Really A Thing In Japan?
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DuchessBianca
 Posts: 562 |
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While I knew it was a thing, after reading Justin's article and the one linked by another poster it made me really sad to see that this is such a huge and growing issue
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Takkun4343
 Posts: 1499 Location: Englewood, Ohio |
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I'm morbidly curious now. |
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MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5316 |
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Do they have anything to show from all this work? Their economy hasn't been strong since 89.
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Hoppy800
 Posts: 3331 |
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It makes me wonder how many idols died of Karoshi. You hear them dying of everything but this. |
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Wrial Huden
 Posts: 149 Location: McKinney, TX |
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I remember seeing a story on this topic on ABC's 20/20 sometime in the late 80s. I still remember images of an exhausted salaryman sleeping on the commuter train home and of a family at the gravesite of a recently-deceased salaryman who died way too young. Unbelievable... |
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maximilianjenus
Posts: 2862 |
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one thign with ajpan and overwork is that, it comes up even in places that have nothing to do with anime, like random vblogs of people living in japan; from the ones I follow, "overwork" is very comon in japanese companies, but if you are lucky enought o work in a non japanese company that has offices in japan they won't "overwork" you as much and will keep you to western schedules.
the reason I say "overwork" woith the quotes is that, in various companies, they only want butt-time and don¿t really check how much work you really do as long as you stay in the office, to taking very often cigarrete breaks, sleeping on the job, etc... are methods the japanese normally use to stay so many hours at work withut tiring themselves to death.
no, the performance curve peaks at 6 hours, then starts going down, so the reason most people work 8 hours is to make use of the higher part of the curve while it's still ghih even though it's going down. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Aphasial
Exempt from Grammar Rules
Posts: 122 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Having worked in pre-crash dot-com's, post-crash tech companies, online game companies, arecent startup in Silicon Valley, and a tech company that went IPO in the 4 years I was there down in SoCal, that's exactly what this reminded me of... 12-13 hour days of stress and overwork, done for some combination of being paid (in stock) and/or corporate cultural dedication, and/or being paid generally. |
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DRosencraft
Posts: 665 |
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The problem, as Justin notes, and I think with comparing directly with one country to another, is that a lot of this is only known or recognized after the fact. Especially if you're talking about a larger company, work hours are almost entirely based on an honor code.
For example, I knew a guy that worked in a grocery store. Week in, week out, worked like 50 hours stocking shelves. Only took home a 40-hour a week paycheck. Why? He punched the clock when it was time on the schedule, and just went back to work. The manager that came in mid-shift asks when he came in, he lied. He then goes home later, repeats the next day, Unless his manager hounds him and checks on his schedule all the time, this sort of thing happens again and again, and no one else is really paying attention because they're all worrying about their own work, or that manager is busy making sure a half dozen other things are getting done properly and on time, they aren't committing a whole team's schedule to memory. Especially when you look at the West, the impression is constantly being driven that European or American workers aren't productive or don't work hard, which is frankly total B.S. At the same time, I don't know there's an answer. Yeah, culture plays a big part, as does the legal framework (employers in the US dread being sanctioned/fined for not properly paying overtime or forcing employees to work overtime). But there are folks who will do what they want and can in order to work themselves to the bone. There's a lot of folks too who have little choice, otherwise they wouldn't have enough income for themselves or their family. |
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Aphasial
Exempt from Grammar Rules
Posts: 122 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Possibly. I'd say it's a bigger gap between Japan and the West, but the American-to-European gulf is pretty notable as well. It's one common thread I've heard mentioned by most of the visitors from Germany or France I've known or hosted here. Different points on the spectrum, for sure. |
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belvadeer
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Pai, following the Department of Labor's standards is not "babying your employees". It's everyone's right as an employee and a human being not to be treated like we don't have our health and lives to worry about. How is it babying when people are paid properly for the amount of work they put in and are not simply treated like barcode labels to be replaced at a moment's notice? Would you rather go to work and be thought of as simply a warm body to fill an office chair until the boss has no further need of you despite all the hours of work you put in? I highly doubt that. As for my response to this article, my parents have always taught me that no amount of work you put in should ever cost you your health (and certainly not your life). Last edited by belvadeer on Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CandisWhite
Posts: 282 |
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It needs to be addressed from the angle of duty: How good of an employee can you be when you have failing health? If you are tired, stressed, out of shape, and aren't at full cognitive function, what is the quality of your work?
The best work environments balance work with rest, and have an open, pleasant, engaging atmosphere; Workplaces that have toxic practices not only ruin their employees' health, they lower productivity, kill employee loyalty and innovation, for the short and the long term, and can lead to the company having a bitch of a time attracting new and quality talent. Your choices are not having lazy bums who hang around watching porn while sorta, kinda, maybe, doing their job and slaves who must be chained down and work into the night (especially for crap pay); A happy medium is available and has done wonders for businesses. Thank Heaven that the "It's easy for a Westerner to look" paragraph was followed up with "But such a cost!" one; I was physically ill there for a moment: Entertainment is never worth more than the quality and existence of human life. I do praise the Japanese work ethic but would like to see it balanced with caring for themselves: Work smarter, not harder. |
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13552 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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This is 1 of the darker aspects of the free market/capitalism. That is, while consumers or audiences are enjoying the product, the people that made it will be might do what is slave labor and be paid less than the product purchase price.
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2419 Location: Germany |
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Germany also had such a famous work ethic, it lead to the "Wirtschaftswunder" of the 50s / 60s after WW II: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtschaftswunder
Here is the thing though. People actually went back to a reasonable pace once the country recovered and 2 jobs + overtime bonanza workweeks have been a non-issue for the middle class ever since. That´s what got shoveled off to the immigrants in the 70s...  . You may now see one of the problems Japan is facing here. Every nerd knows about it too though Japan´s popular fiction.
The father in Pokemon or Earthbound who is never home, a drought of manga and especially anime / games that dare to go 30+, the concept of weekly manga (stop calling the artists lazy!) and so on... None of this is my problem but i still remember my days during basic training in the military and my 2 months working in a hotel in my early 20s. I "only" did half the weekly hours a salaryman is expected to do if the going get´s real tough but still.That misery is the main reason why i went into a professions where over-time is borderline illegal. And i never looked back! Last edited by residentgrigo on Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:05 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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maximilianjenus
Posts: 2862 |
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yeah, but we have the option to not buy the works of companies that follow those practices, so it's not exactly capitalism fault, while in socialism you are forced to gulag so it's not really any better.
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