Forum - View topicAnswerman - Is Working To Death Really A Thing In Japan?
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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zrnzle500
 Posts: 3767 |
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Well robots haven't really taken off in the service industry, not for lack of trying. People are still a little iffy on robots doing that kind of work, and while that could change in the future, it doesn't seem like it will happen very soon.
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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zrnzle500
Posts: 3767 |
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We'll see, but I think 5-10 years is too soon. Let's leave it at that as it's starting to go OT
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Emma Iveli
Posts: 679 Location: Hobo with internet |
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Out of curiosity were you born before 1982 or after? Just a simple question... |
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svines85
 Posts: 42 |
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A fascinating article, thanks Justin
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DRosencraft
Posts: 665 |
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Let's not fool ourselves into thinking replacing people with robots is an answer. In the direct and narrow focus it is a band-aid - overworked employee X doesn't have to work so hard anymore because of robot Y. But that doesn't change the earnings necessity of X. The job is gone, but the person is not. They have to earn a living somewhere, somehow. If their propensity to overwork is generated by a need to earn money, having robots take up jobs, compressing the available supply of jobs, makes the problem worse, not better. If overworking is a matter of personal attitudes, moving from one job to another isn't going to help either. No matter what, this is a problem likely to get worse before it gets better. It's a problem that takes a generation, and likely more, to fix.
On a side note, I do work in the service industry. Our store has both traditional checkout lanes and self-checkout. On a daily basis I have to deal with customers angry, complaining, about the long lines at self-checkout, when ten feet away one of my cashiers is trying to flag customers down saying her lane is open. We can announce over the PA system that we have lanes open, but they rather complain about one or two self-scan terminals being down for computer problems. And I'm not talking about some youngsters too impatient to wait on a "slow" cashier. I'm talking about folks in their 50s, 60s, older. Folks who scream and curse at you because their bank blocked their card and we won't let them walk out the door with $200 in merchandise. Yes, this generation has its faults, but those faults are not unique to this generation. We just get to see it more thanks to the internet than folks in the past could. |
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omiya
 Posts: 1825 Location: Adelaide, South Australia |
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An article about a law to reform treatment of foreign workers in Japan:
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/10/21/national/social-issues/lower-house-committee-passes-foreign-trainee-bill/ |
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zrnzle500
Posts: 3767 |
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Right, which I why I believe that in the case of mass technological unemployment, some form of basic income, i.e. giving everyone a set amount of money, would be necessary. And companies aren't replacing people with robots/computers to ease their workload. A post work society wouldn't be voluntary on the part of workers, aside from them getting income replacements in return. |
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NapoleonDeCheese
Posts: 26 |
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Tell me, please, I'm curious: do you take the whole sweet time you must spend writing long apologies for the Japanese work system (a system that certainly wouldn't thank you one iota for your dedication) in between exhausting periods of restless hard working, or are you another well fed First World fan with a steady income and lots of free time, not only to consume manganime, but to visit discussion forums and pretend to be an authority on sociocultural subjects from other cultures? I mean, you even call yourself a '(pai)prince' in your username. No offense, but something tells me you don't exactly identify yourself with the underdog. And the moment you assume being treated like human beings is automatically something to be placed between the quotation marks in an attempt to disqualify it is the moment you start auto-assuming humanistic treatment of your fellow man is a thing to mock and scorn, which is basically rejecting humanistic thought in lieu of treating other people like mere tools to be exploited and then discarded. That moment is also basically the moment where you invitate others to ignore your own right to have your own thoughts and principles treated with respect, since it goes both ways-- you shouldn't go around basically saying people don't deserve being treated well and having rights because it 'pampers' them and then express indignation over 'being called names' like 'the W word' because it means others aren't treating YOU with respect. Which doesn't mean I'm saying you should be insulted, because two wrongs don't make a right-- but you are still inciting others to commit a wrong by commiting a wrong yourself-- and that, dear sir, is in pretty bad form, if I may say so. Regarding treating customers like royalty-- you know, my boss, who is quite the capitalist cut-throat himself, gave me heck during my job interview when I told him this thinking it'd appeal to him. Customers should always be treated with respect, but not like they are never wrong or they can't be disagreed with when they are making irrational requests, since THAT damages both the employees and the company. Ironically, your posture leans towards the same thing you're accusing employees being guilty of, but applied to customers instead. A customer can't be thinking they can get away with anything, or they'll try always getting their way over the company's own interests. In the end, the only way any economic system can really work is if *all* of its involved parties-- employers, employees, customers, government regulators and overseers-- are aware both of their respective rights *and* limitations. Break that balance and there'll be explotation, chaos, or worse, a mixture of both. |
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13550 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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A 5/7/14 ANN article called "Government Office Cites Overwork in Suicide of A-1 Pictures Staff Member" said that worker was working over 600 hours/month. That's 20 hours a day.
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AJ (LordNikon)
 Posts: 503 Location: Kyoto |
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What is shocking is that this is not just a Japan issue. I had written article on this back in 1986 for the Washington Post while still there on how prevalent this was on Wall street, especially within the investment brokerage industry.
While, it is not uncommon to see a month of this in the service sector around the X-mas season, (My kids who worked retail would see 80 hour weeks regularly in November and December) is that through out the Reganomic ear, the bosses would mandate 80-100 hour weeks, for the he white collar salary workers. Of course, the younger hungrier "kids" working the boiler rooms for commissions loved this... at first. Banking 75k a month in 1984 meant nothing if you couldn't live it up and enjoy that bank. And, there were quite a few high profile suicides. I am without a doubt, still under the strong impression that this still occurs today within the banking and financial industries (and likely a lot of others that I have yet to see the underside of). Again, I'm not talking about a routine project developer n the IT sector, (though I suspect this is a prevent issue in that sector as well), but just one sector, but I suspect that it is not something limited to simply the finical sector of the 80's; it's just not talked about. BTW: I can also say for all my years I spent with the the Washington Post, Gannet and subsequently the wire services, 60+ hour work weeks are quite the norm for forty plus years working for the media, and have seen more than my fair share of stroke/heart attack related deaths from the folks on-rank and above me.. |
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Blanchimont
 Posts: 3444 Location: Finland |
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At least I can assume you got paid for all that overtime? What comes to mind in regards to the conception of the common salaryman in Japan, my suspicion is they may not necessarily get that pay, instead as it's already been said earlier in this thread, that time is treated more as a badge of honor, quite literary... |
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 9834 Location: Virginia |
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@Blanchimont
If you are considered management you are exempt from any US overtime laws. You can work as much as you want or your employer demands and receive nothing but your regular salary. Until recently this included people such as shift managers at fast food shops or convenience stores. I think in the last year the rules were changed to place a minimum annual salary before you were exempt from overtime laws. It is not terribly high though. Basically it depends on how HR writes your job description. |
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Jayhosh
 Posts: 972 Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania |
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Reading this reminded me of the all-too-soon passing of Yoshifumi Kondo, who was Hayao Miyazaki's protege and directed Ghibli's Whisper of the Heart. It was the only film he ever got to direct, which is a real shame as he showed a lot of promise. He died of an aneurysm as a supposed result of over-working, and Miyazaki still feels guilt for how hard he pushed him while they were producing Princess Mononoke, and this was likely the reason for his brief retirement after the completion of the film.
It's a real shame that the production of the stuff we love is so ruthless and brutal behind the scenes. I don't have much to contribute in the way of informed political discussion, but I do hope conditions gets better, even if it does take some time. As many have already said (as well as drawing from personal experience), working at the expense of your own health and well-being is never worth the price. |
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