Forum - View topicYour Favorite Anime/Manga Couple?
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13224 |
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Not sure if sarcasm... Anyways, I once read that something that makes a healthy relationship is the ability for both parties to end the relationship should they want to. The idea being that neither of them feel trapped or obligated to be with their partner. Through that lens, I don't think Ryuji and Taiga are good together, because I get the impression that he only picked her because she couldn't function without him taking care of her (to say nothing of his own need to have some one to look after). On Taiga's end she probably couldn't find anyone else to pamper her the way he does so she can't break up with him either. To be honest I don't see anything romantically appealing about Taiga so I guess I have a fundamental problem understanding why anyone would pick her over Minori (or Ami). |
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4828 |
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I 100% agree with Cam0 on this because I drew to the EXACT conclusion.
See, I didn't see it that way. All you have to do is watch the Christmas episode to see why they genuinely love each other. That was the most heartwarming thing I'd ever seen in a non-shoujo anime. It was absolute preciousness. I must watch it again this month. (So not in a Christmasy-mood right now....lol)
NOPE.  I still think she's one of the worst characters ever written. Not personality-wise but as a character humans are supposed to relate to? Flat as the Oklahoma plains.
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13224 |
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From Taiga, sure, and it's clear Ryuji cares for her, but nothing really suggested he loved her as more than just a good friend. Certainly not enough to have him spoiler[telling his guy pals how much he likes Minori] in one episode and then not long after spoiler[telling Taiga to elope with him.] From the start of the series I knew they'd end up together, because that's the predictable and cliché way all these kind of shows end up. So I was specifically looking for hints towards that conclusion. But I didn't see much of that. The show focused on their friendship as they tried to hook up with other people so for awhile I thought that maybe they were doing something fresh with it. That they fall back on that predictable conclusion in the end makes the disappointment worse.
Well you used to claim that Kosaki would run away if she ever found out Chitoge liked Raku too. MANGA SPOILERS: spoiler[But it was Chitoge who ran away once she learned of Kosaki's feelings.] |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4828 |
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[quote="Vaisaga"]
HA! I didn't fall for that at all.  The show was going "SHIP THESE TWO" so hard from episode 01. From what I've heard about the shoujo manga Koukou Debut, it has an identical plot. spoiler[Two people get close and try to help each other with their crushes but ironically fall in love with each other instead".] It just has that "Well, of course!" feel to it. It's what was supposed to happen.
Pairing Ryuuji with any other girl would just feel wrong to me.
Oh THAT. Lol well, it's been a while....but I think I said something like "She will probably step aside"? I remember saying that at one point... |
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Night fox
 Posts: 561 Location: Sweden |
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@Vaisaga
I noticed that you thought Clannad was "Very Good", while Toradora received a "Not Really Good" rating. I therefore assume that you appreciate spoiler[Tomoya/Nagisa] more than Ryuji/Taiga, but didn't their relationship start out in a similar way - "It's not like I actually like you or anything. I'm just helping you to: get the drama club started / hook up with that guy, understood?" You just have to read between the lines. 
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Cam0
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Seeing that he wasn't as harsh on Oreimo or PapaKiki's OVA in terms of ratings, I'd like to imagine that the ending wasn't the only issue he had with Toradora. Right? |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13224 |
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Which becomes a problem when creators get lazy, feeling they don't need to bother properly developing the relationship because they think the audience will just accept them getting together since that's just the way it "has to be." To me, Taiga/Ryuji is right up there with asspulls like Himeko/Chikane and Kyosuke/Kirino.
Yeah, you were saying how Kosaki is so weak willed she'd just give up on Raku the moment she knew Chitoge was also after him. But in the end spoiler[while she did step aside because she knew Raku and Chitoge's feelings were mutual, she still had the backbone to properly confess to him first.]
Clannad's a bit different. For one, Tomoya didn't go on about how much he liked some other girl for 20+ episodes, and you can clearly see how over time Tomoya's wounded heart is healed by Nagisa's charms and pure pureness. My main issue with Toradora is that we don't see Ryuji gradually falling out of love with Minori and in love with Taiga. It just randomly happens one episode. And I was reading between the lines but I still didn't see it.
Honestly can't remember why I marked Oreimo season 2 as finished because I actually haven't watched the final episodes. I think the difference here is that for Oreimo and Papakiki I knew the endings going in. So any anger I had for the outcomes had abated somewhat. With Toradora I was actively pissed off when I watched it so my feelings are more intense. I really really liked the show until that point but the outcome soured the entire thing for me. |
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Cam0
Posts: 4888 |
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I guess this the main difference between us. I said it before, I never saw Ryuuji's feelings towards Minori as anything more than a crush. So there didn't need to be a falling-out-of-love phase because he was never in love with her. Ryuuji rarely interacted with Minori so there wasn't enough interaction between the two for that crush to develop into love. With Nisekoi (I haven't read the manga, but I know how it ends), we are constantly put inside Kosaki's and Raku's head. They constantly interact with each other and we are constantly shown that they have feelings towards each other. So I feel like Nisekoi's situation is a bit different.
And this. It seems we have a fundamental difference in how we enjoy a story. The ending could never ruin a story for me. It's all about the journey and even if the ending is the worst thing ever (like Mass Effect 3, couldn't think of another good example) as long as the ride was enjoyable it won't affect how much I enjoyed the story overall. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13224 |
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Compared to Taiga, maybe, but they had plenty of significant scenes together and they did get closer over the course of the series. Of course Minori makes sure things don't go too far because she knows Taiga is helpless without Ryuji. And it sure would have been nice to see Ryuji realize he's actually in love with Taiga. Maybe it's clearer in the novel but in the anime we get no such epiphany scene so it comes across as a sudden development. A good example would be Akaneiro ni Somaru Saka. spoiler[Junichi has a big internal fight with himself to force himself to admit that, even though he's dating Yuuhi, he's actually in love with his sister.]
It depends on if the ending spits in the face of the journey or not. For example, there are quite a few titles out there that sell themselves as stories about a man learning to raise a child, only for him to hook up with said child in the end, turning the story of fatherhood into a story of wife husbandry. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4828 |
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That's how I felt about it too. Ryuuji liked Minori but all of his attention was focused on Taiga a majority of the screentime. They didn't go through anything very important together....not enough that made it look like love. Compare one of their doki-doki scenes to the scene where Ryuuji becomes enraged with how Taiga's father treated her. Note how different that level of emotion is.
The bottom line though is Ryuuji goes out of his way for Taiga's sake more than any other character in the show. Why? Just ask yourself why he puts so much effort into helping her or doing things for her? Going to great lengths for her and making big sacrifices for her? Obviously it's because he loves her. It was a subconscious type of love but it was still love. You cannot say that about Himeko towards Chikane. You can say it about Kyousuke and Kirino but a pretty good excuse is but they are family and you're supposed to do that for family. Taiga is not Ryuuji's family member....but the fact that two total strangers get THAT close in so little time is evidence of a significant relationship, don't you think? I mean, I had a male friend who feels like my brother but it took years to get to that level of comfort around him. With Taiga and Ryuuji getting used to being around each other that quickly, that feels more like "husband-and-waifu" material to me.
Ahuh, THAT series.... Even as an age-gap-shipper, that left a bad taste in my mouth. YICK. Last edited by Chiibi on Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13224 |
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Okay, but why did it have to be romantic love? Why can't we ever have a show where the male and female leads are close friends but they get together with other people? Guys and girls can be just friends, as you know. But like I said, that seemed to be where the show was going and it made it feel so fresh. I would be okay with them hooking up at the end if it was actually developed properly. Taiga's end was done perfectly, but Ryuji's end was terrible. It's clear he cared for her, yeah, but I don't recall anything that suggested he was physically attracted to her. And why would he be when she has the body of a child? I prefer petite girls and not even I find her particularly attractive. Taiga was important to him, that was never in question, but to go from "I'm sad Minori rejected me" to "let's get married, Taiga!" in a matter of episodes is BS.
I'm not even talking about THAT series in particular. There are several others with the same outcome. Last edited by Vaisaga on Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cam0
Posts: 4888 |
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Yeah, exactly. I think one could say that it's simply because Ryuuji is extremely kind, but we don't see that level of kindness and effort towards anyone else in the show.
In the Toradora wikia it says that Taiga receives a ton of confessions from dudes. So she is definitely considered attractive in universe at least. I don't remember anything like that from the anime so I don't know if that is true or if it's something that only is in the novels. I do think that Taiga can be considered attractive though. She isn't all that different from other similar characters like Eco or Shana. Last edited by Cam0 on Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4828 |
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Because that's boring as shit and not what the audience wants to see or what the author wants to write?
Hiyao Miyazaki is fine with that concept though and we get examples in some of his movies.
Well, she's certainly cute. I always thought she was the cutest one out of the three girls. And that's even more evidence; Ryuuji doesn't have to think she's sexy to fall in love with her. His feelings go much deeper than that.
EW seriously!? That's so effed up, man. 
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13224 |
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Cute in the small animal type of way. That's why she's called the Palmtop Tiger. And yeah, being attracted to some one physically is kind of the thing that separates romantic love from platonic love. Plus, this happened so I guess he did. 
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Raftina
 Posts: 3282 |
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I do not see how that is boring. A male and a female in a close friendship is no more boring than 2 males or 2 females in a close friendship, and there are plenty of stories that can be told with that as the premise. For example, Asuma Shinohara and Noa Izumi have an excellent working relationship, where they trust each other and are quite comfortable around each other without veering into romance. Huh, Taiga really let herself go after marrying Ryuuji. |
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