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Answerman - Is There Too Much Anime Being Made?

I still can't help but wonder how we're going to look back on this period in a few decades time. I get the feeling it might not be as favourable as we do the 90s since the sort of forgettable crap that would have been lost in time 20 years ago is produced in higher quantities these days with official subtitles and a dub.

I can tell you haven't been into anime past this decade since TV anime followed your approach in gusto for years with terrible results to show for. What's worse is said anime just end like that. No one is satisfied.

And I don't even know what you're getting at when you mentioned "otaku-centric." Feels like you're just gonna go on the same tired old spiel about them moes.

I think we have an obligation to remember this period with fondness because this is when HD and streaming became the standard for tv anime. In my very personal opinion I see the period between 2009 and 2015 as the golden era for anime series. True, we get a lot of garbage, but in these years there were 4-5 fantastic shows and 8-10 great shows every year. I don't know about others, but that is pretty good to me.

Paiprince wrote:

I can tell you haven't been into anime past this decade since TV anime followed your approach in gusto for years with terrible results to show for. What's worse is said anime just end like that. No one is satisfied.

Hmm, I think that a lot of people do end up being satisfied with anime original endings that wrap things up rather than a まだ戦いを続けている "go read the next LN or manga volume to see how it continues" non-ending, which is a popular option. There exist partisans of both approaches, and I think that the previous posters are correct to say that existing fans of the original work are more likely to prefer the canon non-endings than new and more casual fans. It's kind of absurd to say that "no one is satisfied" with either approach; there are fans of each approach, and each approach can be done well or poorly.

Quote:

And I don't even know what you're getting at when you mentioned "otaku-centric." Feels like you're just gonna go on the same tired old spiel about them moes.

If you've watched anime for more than a decade, Paiprince, then you should certainly know that there's an enormous difference in the target audience that occurred starting in 1999 with the rise of late night shows. Shows like Evangelion, Utena, Cowboy Bebop and others were all shown in normal hours of the day, in the early evening. From small beginnings in 1999, late night anime has grown to be a majority of all minutes, while daytime shows have shrunk. There's still the Saturday morning Jump shows, the PreCure franchise, and the Sunday night family staples, and things on NHK, but there's a whole range of genres have disappeared from daytime broadcast and been moved to late night. That makes their target audiences more otaku-centric, more aimed at existing fans, and less likely to appeal to the random channel surfer. Daytime shows have a certain cachet, as can certainly be seen in Girlish Number this season when they talk about Pre Cure ("Pre Para").

There are some effects I like, and some I don't like, but surely anyone who has seen anime before 2006 should understand the changes. One positive effect for us hardcore watchers is less filler and recaps than in the old days; shows for a mainstream audience in the daytime tend to have recaps and previews that make it easy to miss every other show and still follow things. (Just look at Naruto.) Another reason that there's less filler and recaps is that "just skip this week" or "show crappy animation that we'll fix for the home video release" is a lot more possible in the late-night infomercial timeslot for hardcore fans than in prime time viewing slots where something must be broadcast to keep the network happy. A possible downside is just stopping a season without coming to a good conclusion, since so much of the audience is willing to buy the source material to see what happens next (and indeed, with many of these shows the source material sells more than the show, which is really just a bit of fanservice.)

I disagree. In the 80s into the 90s we saw some of the most influential and world-renowned works in anime, from Studio Ghibli, Akira Toriyama, Rumiko Takahashi, Leiji Matsumoto, Mamoru Oshii, and many other artists. Have there been any brand new shows since 2009 that have been nearly as groundbreaking? The most I can think of is Attack on Titan, which even then seems to be more popular than influential.

One of the reasons why most "adult" anime is now relegated in the wee hours is because of PTA groups complaining about the content that shows like EVA and Bebop had. Not because of some perceived demographic shift in taste.

^The first one that comes to mind for influential would be Madoka. There's a reason so many shows since then have been compared to it, usually at least one every season, and that aired five years ago.

As to world renowned, if we are including films as you have, maybe Your Name might be one soon enough, given that it is on track to surpass nearly all the Ghibli films. We'll see how it is received outside Japan of course.

Paiprince wrote:

One of the reasons why most "adult" anime is now relegated in the wee hours is because of PTA groups complaining about the content that shows like EVA and Bebop had. Not because of some perceived demographic shift in taste.

Not really. More and more anime is sent late at night simply because that is the cheapest slot.

JoJo's all about being over the top. It's basically a parody of fist of the north star. Also, how does some opinions regarding the intros after Sono relevant to how the series will be remembered? If anything, JoJo is similar to One Punch Man in that regard that they both go over the top. Why? Because it's better than being another one of those generic shows that gets washed out every season.

This here reflects the average attitude of the typical Jojofan: thinks his favorite series is the best while dismisses the rest.

^I think it is a bit early to wonder about broad cultural impact. And at least one of those (the Dragon Ball franchise), while it is popular and influential, that doesn't necessarily equate to being of the highest quality. And it's not like Takahashi, Toriyama, and Ghibli have stopped making stuff since the 80's and 90's (and 2000's), it's just most of their stuff hasn't had quite the same impact as their prior work.

Perhaps more recent stuff has less impact on mainstream culture in Japan, that is more because that is the exception and not the rule, and not because the quality is less. Most of the most beloved anime, inside and outside Japan, will be loved most by fans of the medium and while there are some that have gone beyond that, none have really moved the medium from niche to mainstream, and I do not expect that to change. Perhaps it is merely a golden age for otaku (and probably sakuga fans as well), but perhaps those of us who are might be forgiven for accepting and enjoying such an age.

Paiprince wrote:

I can tell you haven't been into anime past this decade since TV anime followed your approach in gusto for years with terrible results to show for. What's worse is said anime just end like that. No one is satisfied.

Hmm, I think that a lot of people do end up being satisfied with anime original endings that wrap things up rather than a まだ戦いを続けている "go read the next LN or manga volume to see how it continues" non-ending, which is a popular option. There exist partisans of both approaches, and I think that the previous posters are correct to say that existing fans of the original work are more likely to prefer the canon non-endings than new and more casual fans. It's kind of absurd to say that "no one is satisfied" with either approach; there are fans of each approach, and each approach can be done well or poorly.

Quote:

And I don't even know what you're getting at when you mentioned "otaku-centric." Feels like you're just gonna go on the same tired old spiel about them moes.

If you've watched anime for more than a decade, Paiprince, then you should certainly know that there's an enormous difference in the target audience that occurred starting in 1999 with the rise of late night shows. Shows like Evangelion, Utena, Cowboy Bebop and others were all shown in normal hours of the day, in the early evening. From small beginnings in 1999, late night anime has grown to be a majority of all minutes, while daytime shows have shrunk. There's still the Saturday morning Jump shows, the PreCure franchise, and the Sunday night family staples, and things on NHK, but there's a whole range of genres have disappeared from daytime broadcast and been moved to late night. That makes their target audiences more otaku-centric, more aimed at existing fans, and less likely to appeal to the random channel surfer. Daytime shows have a certain cachet, as can certainly be seen in Girlish Number this season when they talk about Pre Cure ("Pre Para").

There are some effects I like, and some I don't like, but surely anyone who has seen anime before 2006 should understand the changes. One positive effect for us hardcore watchers is less filler and recaps than in the old days; shows for a mainstream audience in the daytime tend to have recaps and previews that make it easy to miss every other show and still follow things. (Just look at Naruto.) Another reason that there's less filler and recaps is that "just skip this week" or "show crappy animation that we'll fix for the home video release" is a lot more possible in the late-night infomercial timeslot for hardcore fans than in prime time viewing slots where something must be broadcast to keep the network happy. A possible downside is just stopping a season without coming to a good conclusion, since so much of the audience is willing to buy the source material to see what happens next (and indeed, with many of these shows the source material sells more than the show, which is really just a bit of fanservice.)

I can remember too, in the 80s and 90s how influential Akira Toriyama and Rumiko Takahashi were on artists of the time, and it seems that that sort of influence just lived in the moment, since the modern generation appears to be more focused on the popular light novel art styles of today, than the styles we've seen in the past.