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Answerman - Do Streaming Numbers Count?


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MarshalBanana



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:38 pm Reply with quote
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They've recently added some older shows, like A Certain Scientific Railgun

I'm sure I'm just misunderstanding that, but if not, what the hell?
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angelmcazares
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:52 pm Reply with quote
^ Remember that as part of the CR-Funi deal Funimation will add several of their titles to Crunchyroll in subbed form.

Last edited by angelmcazares on Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:53 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
I'm sure I'm just misunderstanding that, but if not, what the hell?


It's all covered here.
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John Thacker



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:26 pm Reply with quote
Even if streaming numbers for a particular show don't give back directly for most shows these days, I would imagine streaming numbers affect what sort of bids get made for upcoming shows, especially similar genres and by the same studio.

Another possibility that Justin or someone could confirm is if streaming numbers (which Funimation and others must see) influence a decision to bring something out on home video, and furthermore if that affects any money back to the creators these days, at least as something like taking up an option.
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ultimatehaki



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:33 pm Reply with quote
So.......index 3 when?
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Dr.N0



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:45 pm Reply with quote
BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:
MarshalBanana wrote:
I'm sure I'm just misunderstanding that, but if not, what the hell?


It's all covered here.
I am pretty sure they were referring to the juxtaposition of "old" and "Railgun."
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Paulo27



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:50 pm Reply with quote
John Thacker wrote:
Even if streaming numbers for a particular show don't give back directly for most shows these days, I would imagine streaming numbers affect what sort of bids get made for upcoming shows, especially similar genres and by the same studio.
A while back there was an interview with a CR CEO and he basically said they'd give part of your subscription back to the creators of the show, which isn't how they work at all but it's somewhat right and it does sound like you're helping the creators you like in Japan directly so hey. What he did mean is that if you kept watching a show then it meant it was wanted and they'd push to re-license it when the license ran out, so in a way streaming numbers matter but in another, more often than not, you're not actually helping the creators of the show you're watching that much like most people want to think they are. If anything you're more helping future shows you might not care about.
Though, overall, streaming sites like CR have definitely contributed quite a bit to the overall industry so far and their support will only keep increasing.
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Dr.N0



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:14 pm Reply with quote
Between this Answerman column and that Kun Gao interview, does anybody know how Crunchyroll do business?
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DerekL1963
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:19 pm Reply with quote
Justin wrote:
For back catalog titles like A Certain Scientific Railgun, expectations are already pretty low when it comes to how well it does streaming. Most of the "heat" on streaming is for new simulcasts, not for shows that are a few years old (or older). There are exceptions -- big, earth-shattering mega-hits like Naruto or Attack on Titan will always do pretty well. (And a quick glance at Crunchyroll's "popular" section shows that as of this writing, Railgun is beating both of those.)


At least on my desktop and Roku, Naruto, Dragon Ball, One Piece, and JoJo fill the top slots. Raildex is way down the page. On my desktop, Titan is way down that page, barely beating out The Irregular at Magic High School.
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:22 pm Reply with quote
Dr.N0 wrote:
I am pretty sure they were referring to the juxtaposition of "old" and "Railgun."


Railgun first aired 28 anime seasons ago.
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Dr.N0



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:37 pm Reply with quote
BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:
Dr.N0 wrote:
I am pretty sure they were referring to the juxtaposition of "old" and "Railgun."


Railgun first aired 28 anime seasons ago.
There are four seasons a year, and Railgun started airing Fall 2009, so your math is indeed right. However, unless you are sixteen, I would argue 7 years is hardly a lifetime. If 2009 is old, pretty much every anime has already become obsolete.
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ravenwood7040



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:55 pm Reply with quote
This article doesn't really seem to tally up with what CR have been saying about this, they've always said they sent royalties back. In particular, there seems to be a big difference between the importance of upfront licence costs and revenue as Justin presents it and as CR have been presenting it.

Quote:
A few years ago, many streaming sites -- Hulu specifically -- worked on a revenue sharing model: revenue from whatever ads played with the anime got split with the licensor, who got a monthly statement showing which shows earned how much money from how many views. In other words, the total payout from streaming depended entirely on how many people watched the show.

Those days are now pretty much over, however. Crunchyroll, Hulu, and whoever else now pays an up-front license fee for streaming rights, much like a TV network would. There are still shows up on various services that are still under old contracts, but they're shows that have been up for years.


I don't think that's right though, those paragraphs make it seem like the industry used to run exclusively on royalties, but that now there are no royalties and an upfront fee instead. It would also mean that a few years ago Japan was providing shows to platforms like Hulu in exchange for no money and only a promise of royalties, and no guaranteed return at all, which seems like a very reckless business decision.

Terry Li from Crunchyroll was interviewed on the UK Anime Network podcast last week though, and he was asked about this topic at 1:18:20. Transcript:

Quote:
Elliot: Some people have expressed concern as to what the partnership means in terms of financial impact on studios in Japan. In particular, the spectre of lower licencing costs from CR and Funi, since you're not competing anymore, then knocing on and giving less money to studios. Was this a consideration in the partnership and what are you thoughts on the potential impact this might have.

Terry: People think that it ends up being less money going to Japan, which I think is not true at all. It's because you have to look at the way that Japan makes a lot of the money. For example, today, even prior to this partnership agreement, you know, a large component of the money that Japan makes is derived off the royalties that a service like Crunchyroll pays. So if you think of me licensing a title, yes, I will pay a minimum guarantee, or upfront fee to secure the initial title, but as I exploit it over the period of my service for however many years, I'm constantly paying a portion of that royalty back to Japan, and for the vast majority of titles that we license, the vast majority of the revenue and the upside is from the royalties, not at all from the initial upfront.

That portion is what people don't often consider, right? Yes, if you have less competition to bid for the initial title you might have a slightly lower upfront fee, but you're still paying the maj- Nothings changed with the way you pay royalties and at the end of the day you more than recover the loss in upfront fees by, one, same royalties you get, and two, having a completed offering so that now you have user who, instead of wavering between two services just never subscribing, they'll go on Crunchyroll and subscribe digital, or buy the DVD from Funimation, at which point more portion of that royalty goes back to Japan. So I think it's just explaining that complexity of the economics that's difficult but economically speaking, they are getting more money from us in terms of royalties because of more subscribers coming through. Does that make sense?

Elliot: Yeah, I can see that, the equation changes but the number gets bigger at the end.

Terry: Totally, and I think that people get caught up on the upfront because that's what get floated around in the industry, you know? "Oh my gosh, this company paid this much for that!" That number is just a fraction, it's the tip of the iceberg, right?

Elliot: It's a nice big number you can put on things.

Terry: Right, but people don't share whats below the surface of the water, which is the majority of what they make. And so, I think Japan recognises this because a lot of the studio recognise that it's not a sustainable industry to have a hyper-inflated bidding war for the upfront fee if the companies like CR, Funi, Netflix etc are not incentivised to maximise the remainder of the royalty.


So what Crunchyrolls reps are saying seems really at odds with the article, in that CR says upfront costs are still only a small portion of the revenue, while the majority is being sent as royalties on views. Am I missing something here?
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:56 pm Reply with quote
Dr.N0 wrote:
There are four seasons a year, and Railgun started airing Fall 2009, so your math is indeed right. However, unless you are sixteen, I would argue 7 years is hardly a lifetime. If 2009 is old, pretty much every anime has already become obsolete.


Sure, I'm just saying that there are a sizable number of anime fans who only stream currently airing shows, and I could understand how those fans might look at a show from 2009 and consider it "old".
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Sahmbahdeh



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:59 pm Reply with quote
Dr.N0 wrote:
BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:
Dr.N0 wrote:
I am pretty sure they were referring to the juxtaposition of "old" and "Railgun."


Railgun first aired 28 anime seasons ago.
There are four seasons a year, and Railgun started airing Fall 2009, so your math is indeed right. However, unless you are sixteen, I would argue 7 years is hardly a lifetime. If 2009 is old, pretty much every anime has already become obsolete.


As much as it sucks to imagine, 7 years is pretty old nowadays. Most people who watch anime are teenagers or young adults, so 7 years ago is probably before many current fans started watching anime. In addition, lots of people only watch currently airing shows, or shows from a year or two ago. Sad, but true.
And keep in mind, old =/= obsolete.
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Dr.N0



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:06 pm Reply with quote
BodaciousSpacePirate wrote:
Sure, I'm just saying that there are a sizable number of anime fans who only stream currently airing shows, and I could understand how those fans might look at a show from 2009 and consider it "old".
To me, that is a depressing thought. I honestly did not think that was a thing. That sounds like only seeing movies in theater or only listening to charting songs. Previously, a lot of people had no choice, and fought to get us cheap, easy access to entertainment. I have trouble understanding that mindset. Maybe someone cares to elaborate.
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