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The List - 7 Women Who Changed Manga History


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Villette



Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:03 pm Reply with quote
I for one enjoyed the article! The more people who are exposed to Moto Hagio's work the better IMHO.

And so cool to see Matt Thorn share some of his expertise here Shocked
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 2945
Location: Email for assistance only
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:32 pm Reply with quote
scarletrhodelia wrote:
Lynzee, thank you for this column. You have done a stellar job in talking about the Year 24 Flower Group, which has been so influential but so little-known by modern fans. I’ve given talks on the group in general and Hagio-sensei in particular at local conventions, so this topic is close to my heart. Certainly you can make a case that these women built on the work of women who preceded them, just as later authors would have had a harder time without building on their work. That doesn’t at all take away from what they have done.

How honored you must be to have Matt Thorn, the pre-eminient scholar on the 24, comment here! Whatever I know about the 24, I learned most of it from Mr. Thorn’s writings.

This is my favorite of your columns, Lynzee, thank you.


I'm very happy to see my column attract the attention of Mrs. Thorn. Nearly all the research I did to write it was made possible because of her work. While The List's format doesn't lend itself for highly detailed biographies of these amazing mangaka, my sincere hope was to raise some recognition of their names like their male contemporaries so more readers would appreciate and seek out their work, hopefully doing a push for more of it to come stateside in some format.

I'm adding a pet project to bring ANN's encyclopedia up so it better reflects these women's works. I submit quite a bit to the encyclopedia as a hobby (I'm weird) and noticed very, very few of their works are available here as well.

Thank you both for reading!


Last edited by ANN_Lynzee on Thu May 11, 2017 6:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
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soundofsilence



Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 17
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:13 pm Reply with quote
Looks like there's a museum exhibition of Yamagishi's works on now.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:39 am Reply with quote
matt_thorn_en wrote:
I'm a bit surprised at all the mentions of Rumiko Takahashi and CLAMP in the comments. Setting aside the fact that they came along later, I think perhaps Anglophones have an exaggerated notion of their importance. Takahashi was the first woman to succeed in shōnen manga, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to demonstrate that she changed manga in a significant way. (Full disclosure: I was the translator of the Mermaid Series, Rumic World, the first volumes of Ranma 1/2 and Maison Ikkoku, and also a bit of LUM: Urusei Yatsura.) And CLAMP were big among otaku in the 1990s, working in a very otaku style with very otaku content, but, again, I don't see how you could argue they changed manga. Being successful and being an innovative pioneer are not the same thing.

The BIGGEST problem with a vague "influential" statement is that it is way too open to interpretation. That said, "success" IS basically a requirement of influence. If a creator is unsuccessful, then no one will read their work and thus, no influence (I have zero doubt that there are "unknown" creators that predate the Year 24 group that no one knows because their works were unsuccessful), it's entirely possible even that ALL the women on this list were influenced by creators that never caught on but inspired or encouraged these 7.

One other thing, I think it's a BIT cavalier to dismiss Takahashi, CLAMP and (unmentioned in the quoted post) Naoko Takeuchi. While I have no authority to speak to their influence on Japanese creators/society, they were clearly instrumental in foreign markets. And while that may at first glance seem irrelevant, with the changing nature of the manga market and publishing, I think one can't dismiss the importance of exposing the foreign markets. I think Takeuchi is especially important because of how without Sailor Moon, the West likely doesn't SEE many (or possibly any) shoujo manga. But again, as I noted in another discussion of "influential creators", you likely won't know the IMPACT of the more recent creators until much later. It's "easy" to point to creators that are known inspirations of CURRENT popular creators, but it is practically impossible to know which of the CURRENT creators will inspire the next generation.

EDIT: as an addendum, not a "criticism", but a suggestion, if a "List" article is intended to promote or examine a specific group/era/etc in the future it may behoove to title it as such. "The List" articles are pretty much ALWAYS read as "top X of Y" type things, and whenever (not the first time) the list is intended to look at something specific but titled "vaguely" there's always griping about omissions which were never intended to be considered. I just think that does a disservice to both the author and the material to title the List in such a way that predisposes people to look for things that aren't ever going to be in there.
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jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4378
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:04 am Reply with quote
Blanchimont wrote:
Among other influential albeit perhaps not on breaking new ground female mangaka is definitely Rumiko Takahashi, at least on the Western front. Oh, and CLAMP of course...


i'm more than surprised that she didn't made the list considering how much her works stood the test of time. epsecially ranma 1/2.

also CLAMP does have a role in the manga, it had multiple authors though. so i wouldnt put the whole group on the list.
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