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Characters You Couldn't Sympathize With


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Animeking1108



Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 1244
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:35 am Reply with quote
Was there a character you you were supposed to sympathize with, but just couldn't because of their actions? I don't know about you, but I really hate the "Tragedy Justifies Abuse" cliche.

Taiga- Toradora: So, she regularly beats up Ryuji if he so much as pulses in a way that annoys her, but that's okay because she has daddy issues. Newsflash: people who get arrested for beating their spouses/children usually have daddy issues too. Doesn't exactly earn them sympathy from the jury. If you see an example of this done right, look at Izumo's backstory in "Blue Exorcist." For starters, spoiler[her crappy childhood didn't end with her abusive parents]. Second, it helps that Izumo, while a pessimistic tsundere, didn't beat up the characters for minor infractions. Third, the series doesn't act like it justifies her behavior.

Akemi Hinazuki- Erased: Up until spoiler[she got arrested], she not only abused Kayo, but she looked like she got off on it sexually. Then they reveal that her husband used to beat her, and that turned her into a total sadist. I really hope the manga executed this better.

Akito Sohma- Fruits Basket: (Before I begin, yes, referring to Akito as spoiler[a "he"] wasn't a mistake; it's just tedious to keep marking the spoiler) Yet another example of "Child Abuse Makes You Evil." His crimes include damaging Hatori's eye, blaming his girlfriend for it, smacking Kisa just for getting involved with Hiro, pushing Rin out from a two-story window, promising to spoiler[lock Kyo away once he turned into an adult], and spoiler[trying to kill him and Tohru after having a nervous breakdown]. And yet, his tragic backstory was enough to have Tohru spoiler[forgive her for her sociopathic behavior]. I get that forgiveness is one of the themes for this series, but Akito's actions would have, and should have, landed him in prison, or at least send him to some serious therapy.

Aoba Kuronuma- Durarara: On top of being a manipulative prick and causing Mikado to spoiler[nearly turn to the dark side], we learn that he's been a total sociopath since childhood. While his brother Izumii is far from a saint, I honestly can't blame him for hating Aoba's guts. Aoba set his room on fire to get him beaten by his abusive father just to get back at him for hitting him a few times. If my brother destroyed my property, nearly burned the house down over something so petty, and subjected me to child abuse for personal enjoyment, he'd be dead to me too. Hell, it's probably Aoba's fault Izumii turned into such a violent sociopath in the first place. I think this can be blamed on the anime not showing Izumii abusing Aoba, but the Light Novels also reveal that the reason Izumii is such a prick to Aoba is because his parents favor him. Considering that the only time we see their parents, their beating him for something he didn't do and were more concerned about him smoking than his room being on fire, I'd think there's favoritism going on too. You know your character is a C-word when I'm siding with a psychopath who sadistically broke a teenage girl's legs.
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1857
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:07 am Reply with quote
We were supposed to sympathize with Kayo's mom and Aoba? I thought they were just given those few sympathetic points to remain more human than cartoon villain.
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Dessa



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 4438
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:28 pm Reply with quote
Subaru from Re: Zero, hands down. Which, honestly, is what made the series great. Subaru was a jackass. He thought that he was the protagonist in his own video game, and acted the part. He was so full of himself, that he himself screwed up everything and made things worse repeatedly. It wasn't even until near the end (after he spoiler[had his nervous breakdown] and then spoiler[was willing to sacrifice himself to stop whats-his-face]) that I even began to not be annoyed by him. But, for me, since Re: Zero is more of a deconstruction of the "character gets sent to another world and becomes the hero" genre, that's exactly why it worked.
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:19 pm Reply with quote
Thank you for your list, Animeking1108!
Animeking1108 wrote:
Taiga- Toradora: So, she regularly beats up Ryuji if he so much as pulses in a way that annoys her, but that's okay because she has daddy issues.

If I may dispute this, I'm not entirely certain that we should take umbrage at Taiga's physical behaviour towards Ryuji, or at least, I believe we as an audience are never invited to do so. Insofar as it is presented in the show, her aggression towards him is treated with near-unfaltering levity, rather than as something objectionable. Indeed, it is not suggested that her physical deeds cause him any lasting harm beyond the general annoyance typical to a tsundere pairing. To contrast, consider how differently spoiler[Taiga's fight against Sumire] is directed to her usual pugnaciousness; such an occasion is taken as something far more serious and significant than any of her ordinary lashings-out, highlighting how inconsequential the latter are within the story.

Of course, I accept that you may consider her violent interactions with Ryuji to be abusive even despite their whimsical depiction, and in general I agree that we should judge characters for their deeds per se rather than for their directors' moral presentation thereof, but comedy tends to make its characters resistant to slapstick violence to the extent that such violence becomes less disagreeable when we see it, a principle that I consider relevant to what Ryuji endures.
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Night fox



Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 561
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:04 pm Reply with quote
Animeking1108 wrote:
Taiga- Toradora: So, she regularly beats up Ryuji if he so much as pulses in a way that annoys her, but that's okay because she has daddy issues.

Then you'd probably find it very difficult to like Misaka from the Index/Railgun franchise, as she regularly electrocutes anyone who looks at her the wrong way. (I find her adorable, though, in spite of her short-fuse temper - or rather because of it) Laughing

But I have to agree with what Zin5ki pointed out, that not all anime violence is to be taken dead seriously. Sometimes it's simply used for laughs, or to illustrate character flaws in a caricaturic way.
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1857
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:04 am Reply with quote
I do agree that slapstick comedy is too rampant in anime, but its pretty obvious when we're supposed to shrug it off as a comic relief moment. I still think Miaka from Fushitty Yuugi is one of the worst things ever.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11306
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:51 am Reply with quote
I think we were supposed to sympathize with Lisa in Terror in Resonance, but I just wanted someone to defenestrate her every time she was on screen. She is probably the character I hate the most, except for everyone in Gantz, and Aoi from Coppelion, who takes first prize. The reason I hate them all is the same: they are simply too stupid to live, and everything they do nearly gets them and the people around them killed, and yet they still inexplicably survive (well, ok, sometimes Gantz does kill them for being idiots) and nobody seems to be upset that they keep being criminally pathetic.
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Alan45
Village Elder



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 9809
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:08 am Reply with quote
@Gina Szanboti

Years ago I read a series of science fiction novels set in a rather harsh world. One of the "gods" they spoke of was "The Fool Killer". This god existed for the purpose of punishing stupid behavior. I gather this is what you would like to invoke on some of these characters.

I tend to be reminded of his concept when ever I read of some idiot who ran off the road and killed himself while texting.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11306
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:15 am Reply with quote
Well, the brand of stupidity these characters display shouldn't need divine intervention to take them out. Darwinian selection should do the trick, but their continued immunity to the laws of nature is what makes them so frustrating.
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Chiibi



Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 4828
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:19 pm Reply with quote
Suguha from SAO

I know at least Akane will agree with that; The rest of the characters are in FAR worse situations and WE are supposed to feel sorry for this whiny brat because Kirito doesn't love her?

GIVE ME A BREAK. NOPE.
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Akane the Catgirl



Joined: 09 Oct 2013
Posts: 1091
Location: LA, Baby!
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:33 pm Reply with quote
Chiibi wrote:
Suguha from SAO

I know at least Akane will agree with that; The rest of the characters are in FAR worse situations and WE are supposed to feel sorry for this whiny brat because Kirito doesn't love her?

GIVE ME A BREAK. NOPE.


I liked Suguha's strong personality and competency, but her origins are rooted in only the most cynical form of marketing to the imouto crowd. These writers should have taken a note from Mayuri Shiina from the Steins Gate anime and just let Suguha be Kirito's little sister and not just another pointless haremette who has no life outside of Men. I really did like those moments when she and Kirito acted like actual siblings. But as soon as the stupid melodramatic soap opera incest subplot reared it's ugly head...no. Just no.

Any additional characters? Well...can't really think of any right now, since I haven't watched as much anime as the rest of y'all.
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Animeking1108



Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 1244
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:24 am Reply with quote
Slapstick isn't as funny if the guy on the receiving end doesn't deserve it. Take Miroku from "InuYasha" for example. Him getting smacked by Sango is amusing because he actually deserves it by sexually harassing her. Another example is Ranma Saotome. Sure, for every Unprovoked Pervert Payback he gets from Akane, there are times when he legitimately eggs her on just to tick her off.

An example of this done wrong is "Love Hina." 90% of the show is Keitaro getting beaten for things he didn't intentionally do, and the girls have a Shoot First, No Questions Later mentality. Another infuriating example is the Hot Spring scene from "Persona 4." It leads to a very cliched Accidental Pervert gag that ends with the guys getting their arses kicked. You think the situation will get deconstructed because the girls soon learn that the whole situation was their fault in the first place. Great, so they're going to apologize for the misunderstanding, right? Nope. They refuse to own up to it and keep it a secret. (One thrown out voice from screaming at the screen later) And people actually wonder why I think "Persona 3" was better.

If the victim of slapstick doesn't deserve it, he should at least have a bone thrown to him to make up for his misery. I suppose Ryuji got the longer end of the stick than Keitaro, but Taiga's actions still rubbed me the wrong way.
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4070
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:12 am Reply with quote
Animeking1108 wrote:
Slapstick isn't as funny if the guy on the receiving end doesn't deserve it. Take Miroku from "InuYasha" for example. Him getting smacked by Sango is amusing because he actually deserves it by sexually harassing her. Another example is Ranma Saotome. Sure, for every Unprovoked Pervert Payback he gets from Akane, there are times when he legitimately eggs her on just to tick her off.

An example of this done wrong is "Love Hina." 90% of the show is Keitaro getting beaten for things he didn't intentionally do, and the girls have a Shoot First, No Questions Later mentality.


There's nothing wrong with "guilty by reason of existing" and Keitaro, three time Ronin and triple loser all around is Fate's very own punching bag. If he intentionally did things worth physical retaliation then it wouldn't be funny, it'd be karma. Yes, Love Hina really is about a guy having to manage a dorm for disturbed and somewhat disturbing women. It's setting, plot and punishment all convenient placed in one hotel with the word "Love" in the title and on the sign.

Because if Fate really loves anything, it's irony.

Did you never question the fact that a hot spring hotel with that many rooms only housed five people plus the manager? They're isolated not so much for their own comfort but for the safety of the rest of society. Su alone could take down most of Japan, Shinobu, not so much...

As for Taiga, the main premise of the show, the very core of her character, is her anger at being small and undeveloped physically. The "palmtop tiger". Daddy issues... the way her father treated her more like a doll or a small pet he'd visit when it's convenient for him... is part of that rather than being its own separate issue. Also:

Small person hits big person, funny especially if there's nary a reaction. There doesn't have to be a reason, I think it's funnier when there isn't a reason. Short temper, short fuse...
Big person hits small person, at the very least bullying but probably assault.
Same size people hitting each other, Three Stooges.

"But a small person... or a woman... hitting a big guy... or a man... should be assault too!" This one keeps popping back up but it's rule of funny. Or is it rule of slapstick? You know, a slap stick... a blunt instrument used to hit people that makes a really hard sound and looks painful but one that doesn't actually do any real damage... It's anime it's usually a fan or those silly hammers.

Ok, I think I see the problem here.
"Doesn't really deserve it."
Yeah, you'll have to bring that up with Punch. But he's busy beating Judy right now. But it's ok, she beats him right back.

Puppets really do ruin everything, huh?
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Animeking1108



Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 1244
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:43 am Reply with quote
louis6578 wrote:
We were supposed to sympathize with Kayo's mom and Aoba? I thought they were just given those few sympathetic points to remain more human than cartoon villain.


It sure as hell looked like it. They play Kayo's moms fall dramatically and she has a massive "My God, What Have I Done Moment" after spending have the series remorselessly and sadistically abusing her.

With Aoba, his brother bullying him is a rather flimsy Freudian Excuse. My brother use to hit me all the time, but I didn't set his room of fire or manipulate gang leaders. That's just what older brothers do sometimes.
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1857
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:42 pm Reply with quote
Akane the Catgirl wrote:
Chiibi wrote:
Suguha from SAO

I know at least Akane will agree with that; The rest of the characters are in FAR worse situations and WE are supposed to feel sorry for this whiny brat because Kirito doesn't love her?

GIVE ME A BREAK. NOPE.


I liked Suguha's strong personality and competency, but her origins are rooted in only the most cynical form of marketing to the imouto crowd. These writers should have taken a note from Mayuri Shiina from the Steins Gate anime and just let Suguha be Kirito's little sister and not just another pointless haremette who has no life outside of Men. I really did like those moments when she and Kirito acted like actual siblings. But as soon as the stupid melodramatic soap opera incest subplot reared it's ugly head...no. Just no.

Any additional characters? Well...can't really think of any right now, since I haven't watched as much anime as the rest of y'all.


YES! I have very little to add! I think Mayuri, while a little flat of a character, fulfilled the exact role that Suguha SHOULD have filled with flying colors. They're both women whose role in the story is defined by their relationship to the protagonist, being that of a little sister of sorts to the proactive male lead. The difference being that Mayuri's personality isn't defined by Okabe. She has plenty of little hobbies and quirks to latch on to.

Honestly, I'm amazed at how many cosplayers there were of the more one-dimensional SAO characters at my local convention. Oh well. At least Yuuki, the character with the most potential, was cosplayed.
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