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EP. REVIEW: Descending Stories: Shōwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjū


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MikeNeko San



Joined: 02 Dec 2015
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:52 pm Reply with quote
I need to re-watch first season because I have a Captain Obvious level question. The seventh Yakumo, who was fond enough of a geisha that he took in her son as his first/only apprentice, was Kikuhiko's biological father, right?
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Faeris



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:07 pm Reply with quote
MikeNeko San wrote:
I need to re-watch first season because I have a Captain Obvious level question. The seventh Yakumo, who was fond enough of a geisha that he took in her son as his first/only apprentice, was Kikuhiko's biological father, right?


nope.
we don't know who Kiku's father was. Kiku was raised in a geisha house but had a weak leg so he couldn't perform or dance so they kinda 'gave him away', as I recall.
7th Yakumo was only Kiku and Shin's shishou , not related by blood to any of them.
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Merida



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 1945
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:17 am Reply with quote
After last week's emotional rollercoaster, i wasn't really sure what to expect from the remaining episodes, but this ep. gave me everything i've ever wanted...and more. Too many beautiful and bittersweet moments to go into detail here, all i can say is that i loved every minute of it.
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chaccide



Joined: 16 Aug 2016
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:34 pm Reply with quote
spoiler[ ...... Yay, Bunny Drop?]

It was a really beautiful ending, especially seeing the boy who brought together the works of the previous generations. I just really wish they hadn't chosen the route they did to make him that. Just, ew. But then, the story was never what entranced me; it was a bit of a soap. It was the way the story was told in art and in voice acting that made it spectacular.
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Merida



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 1945
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:46 am Reply with quote
chaccide wrote:
spoiler[ ...... Yay, Bunny Drop?]

It was a really beautiful ending, especially seeing the boy who brought together the works of the previous generations. I just really wish they hadn't chosen the route they did to make him that. Just, ew. But then, the story was never what entranced me; it was a bit of a soap. It was the way the story was told in art and in voice acting that made it spectacular.


Well, they did leave it open to interpretation at least, so i'm just going to pretend that conversation never happened...but yeah, is that some weird Japanese thing to consider a foster parent having sex with their (grown-up in this case, at the very least...) child "the ultimate happy ending" or something?! Rolling Eyes

That aside, i loved to see everybody doing so well: Konatsu's dream finally came true, rakugo is evolving and ready for the future with Shin-chan as the new Kiku and i admit that Yotaro doing Shinigami (as Yakumo) brought tears to my eyes...and last but not least, i'm hoping that Matsuda is gonna live forever. Go, Matsuda! Smile

I'm sad to see this show go, but it was a satisfying conclusion overall, so goodbye Shōwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjū, you will be missed!
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crosswithyou



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 2892
Location: California
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:09 am Reply with quote
So in the end, no one tells Konatsu the truth behind her parents' death.

It's kinda interesting to see how similar Yota becomes to Yakumo. His speech, while still a little brash and distinctly Yota, has touches of Yakumo in it. For example, he usually refers to himself as "oira," but as he's become older now, it's changed to "atashi," which is what Yakumo used.

And I can't be the only one happy to see cheery Matsuda in his old age. Very Happy

Overall, a satisfying conclusion to an excellent series. I'm sad to see it end.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11306
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:16 am Reply with quote
Merida wrote:
[is that some weird Japanese thing to consider a foster parent having sex with their (grown-up in this case, at the very least...) child "the ultimate happy ending" or something?! Rolling Eyes

I think it was a bit different in this case. I like to think that something equivalent to a turkey baster was involved, but even if not, it strikes me as more of a practical means to an end than anything remotely romantic, despite her using that term to sum up all her conflicting feelings.

Since Konatsu, and I presume Yakumo, had no regrets, it doesn't seem like anyone was harmed in the making of Shinnosuke. Nor is it presented by the anime as any sort of idealized relationship one would aspire to. So I actually approve of what she did: essentially giving Kikuhiko and Sukeroku a child with their genes, which is kinda poetic, all things considered in this unique story. Even Higuchi couldn't help but like the idea. Smile

That said, I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Konatsu approached him with the idea (unless she arranged a Lot's-daughters-in-the-cave scenario). Must've been some conversation. Smile

Will someone please license this already? ::sigh::
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Merida



Joined: 21 Feb 2012
Posts: 1945
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:33 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:

I think it was a bit different in this case. I like to think that something equivalent to a turkey baster was involved,


Thanks for giving me that mental image...Wink So in what way was the yakuza boss involved in this then? Do i even want to know?!

Gina Szanboti wrote:

So I actually approve of what she did: essentially giving Kikuhiko and Sukeroku a child with their genes, which is kinda poetic, all things considered in this unique story. Even Higuchi couldn't help but like the idea. Smile


Well, that's a way of looking at it which hadn't really occured to me, but i gotta agree that there's a certain charm to it. Then again, for me it would have been poetic enough for Shinnosuke to become the spiritual successor to Shin and Bon without the "blood and genes" thing...
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11306
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:52 am Reply with quote
I'm not much invested in bloodlines and genes myself, but it really matters to a lot of people (e.g. people will spend tens of thousands on in vitro and/or surrogates to make new kids with their genes, while existing kids rot in orphanariums). I think perhaps it's even more important in Japan, where you have the family registries and your ancestors are part of your religious life, even if you're mostly secular.

I guess the yakuza boss was the cover story (and it needed to be someone who could definitely keep a secret). At least now we know what the conversation in the garden was about.
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chaccide



Joined: 16 Aug 2016
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:55 am Reply with quote
I have a lot of trouble with the interpretation that Konatsu did it for "her two fathers" considering all her conflicting feelings that would have prevented such a gesture. It just makes no sense. And even if they don't have a problem with it, a guy screwed a girl he'd raised and got her pregnant after being in relationships with her parents. I have a real problem with that, especially considering the power differential in that relationship.
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DrunkAyanami
Get off my lawn



Joined: 27 Feb 2015
Posts: 88
Location: The great state of Vermont
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:52 pm Reply with quote
crosswithyou wrote:
So in the end, no one tells Konatsu the truth behind her parents' death.


Yea I can't say I'm surprised. I mean sure, she has a right to know, but no one who knows the truth is going to want to have that conversation. In their minds, it's just going to make her feel terrible about something that happened years ago. If Yakumo was OK with going to the grave with that secret, then what reason do they have to bring it up? I really can't be mad with their decision.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:35 pm Reply with quote
Let me just say that while I didn't mention it in my post about the conversation between Kiku and Konatsu in 10 (partly because I wasn't positive, partly because it would be kind of a creepy read on the scene without stronger evidence), part of the thing that threw me about it was that it seemed to be tinged with more than familial affection from Konatsu. When she first switches tone with Kiku, I think it threw me so hard not just because of the contrast with her normal disposition towards him, but because it felt like a kind of affection different from the gratitude of a daughter toward her father. The "revelation" in 12 helps explain how she could maintain those two feelings: spoiler[one is familial bitterness, the other "romantic love". They don't conflict because they aren't judgments of Kiku in the same capacity. In fact, it seems unlikely in retrospect that she viewed Kiku as a father figure to any significant extent.]

Overall I'm pretty disappointed with episode 12, and kind of the entire second season, with how it's handled Konatsu's arc, even beyond her relationship with Kiku. Regardless of the morality of the situation with her and Kiku, not telling her what happened was a narrative mistake and having Kiku leave her with what felt like a pretty superficial reconciliation was as well, especially if a lot of the emotional substance of the scene is only properly comprehensible in retrospect. Yota also felt like a much more one-dimensional character than Sukeroku or Kikuhiko ever were. I think he was supposed to be, as a purposeful contrast to both of them, and as the harbinger of rakugo's future, but I can't help feeling that a lot of the conflict inherited from the first season is left unresolved at the end of the second. I think it needed to be more melodramatic, to be blunt.

That said, there was still a lot of good in the second season - Konatsu performing Jugemu for those kids, and Yota basically saving rakugo. Getting to see Yota peform Shinigami was awesome, though I wonder what the meaning of ghost-Kiku's words were. Old lady Konatsu and old man Yota are both pretty great characters, and make a great couple.

One thing about episode 12 is that it really went in on a thematic point about how kindness is sometimes equivalent to withholding the truth - either the true extent of one's feelings in the case of Sukeroku and Kiku, or the true extent of some events in the case of Matsuda, sensei, Yota, and Konatsu, which felt like a bit of a cheat to sidestep around some problems. Which I guess is what it literally is for those characters. But I guess I just wanted to see more confrontation, and the show makes the point that real people don't work by plunging themselves head-first into resolving every bit of tension that may exist in them and between themselves and their peers.
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Keichitsu0305





PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:44 am Reply with quote
I shall firmly plant my flag in the spoiler[anti Usagi Drop old man Kikuhiko screwing a young Konatsu to create a "child" with Sukeroku theory] mostly because in episode 11 Sukeroku mentioned that he was watching over the family and I'm 99% sure he would have brought up something like that. As for Kikuhiko/Shinnosuke resemblance? *shrug* I thought it was symbolic just like how both Yota and Sukeroku have that swirl on their nose rather than actual DNA. They never really explained who gang bossman was but maybe they tossed this in because of the whole "critics think too much" so, Konatsu (like a boss) just wants to mess with this guy for prying so much into their personal lives.

I actually laughed when Kikuhiko's ghost popped up during the Shiganami performance; even from the grave he will torture Yota. Anime hyper Also, Matsuda wins as best side character of the year.

In the end, I'm glad that SGRS really does have flaws after all but, I can still consider it a masterpiece. Not perfection and not a mainstream series but one that I would love to own (can't wait for the manga translation) and enjoy for years. Thanks Gabriella for covering this show!!
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Animechic420



Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 1724
Location: A Cave Filled With Riches
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:50 am Reply with quote
I'm still at a lost with the whole Who is Shinnosuke's Biological Father? business. Confused

Last edited by Animechic420 on Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Faeris



Joined: 22 Mar 2016
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:55 am Reply with quote
hmmmm
going back a few episodes, the "truth" about shinnosuke's father doesn't seem too far fetched.
ep 12, first season: there's a point where Yakumo sees Sukeroku ghost and asks him if he's mad about what he did to Konatsu, this happens after the scene when she reveals to Yota that she's going to be a mother.

Then in 2nd season, those eps when Yota faces the gang leader: there's this strange air in the interactions around Konatsu, the geisha old lady and the leader--also let's consider that the leader's had a reationship with the lady right there for decades-- that makes you think something's not being said, and Yakumo often visited the geisha house (where Konatsu worked) to drink along with the leader, so I think it all went down there instead of their home.
Konatsu is, after all, the daughter of the person he loved the most and also the daughter of the only woman we know he became physically attracted to. Kiku did like Miyokichi but he just didn't like her enough (let's say: love her) to drop rakugo because of her.
so, probably between drinks, half truths and love in different forms it just happened, and I get the feeling that it was only once.

In episode 10, second season when they get their talk, I don't know about you guys but I felt there was a lot not being said, specially in Konatsu's eyes. it seemed like she revered him for more than all she was saying.

About hiding the truth about her parents' deaths: I'm okay with that. after Yakumo died I see no reason to come clean with all of it. I think the night would have turned out a tragedy anyways even if she didn't push Miyokichi. Yakumo probably felt that way too as he thought it was his fault for being there alone, and the rest respected his will.


final thoughts: I really liked the ending and all of this second season. I think everything got cleared up nicely considering all the times skips we had.

loved this series very much. best I've seen in years.
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