Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Bakemonogatari
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zrnzle500
 Posts: 3767 |
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@killjoy_the Good point. I would consider SAO a show with harem elements but not a harem, so I ought to apply it to Monogatari to be consistent. I wouldn't consider something a harem with such a relationship relatively early on unless there was a serious chance that someone else could get mc or else join in the relationship in a harem ending but in Monogatari's case I doubt Araragi would live long enough to switch horses so to speak.
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Yup, that's the key factor. It's how many girls are in love with the otaku self insert MC. Which in the case of SAO of Bakemonogatari reach pretty darn high numbers. |
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Chocoreto
Posts: 105 |
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Thank God I thought I was the only one in the world who didn't like Bakemonogatari. I love Katanagatari, which I think is from the same author, but I never liked Bakemonogatari. I didn't hate it either. It just never managed to spark my interest. I think that I never found anything that I thought Bakemonogatari had to say to me. Too much style (SHAFT style, which I'm not a fan of), over substance. Substance that tries desperately to convince you that it exists through that style, but at the end of the day it merely rings hollow. And then you shrug your shoulders, say "meh, whatever", and move onto the next anime series to watch. I hope that the next time I'll be more lucky in the choice of classic reviews. I'll still read them now, trying to understand what the heck people dig in this series, even if I don't think that my opinion about it will ever change. For now, I still have not understood a single thing, other than "sexy ladies presented in a more sophisticated way than in most harem series", and honestly if that's just it, Bakemonogatari would have to be one of the most overrated series of the decade. At least, I know that this is what I got from watching it. |
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aifhak
Posts: 57 |
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So why aren't those anywhere close to as popular as the Monogatari series? I never really got this idea that when after scenes such as the monologue from Ougi or the Kanbaru x Shinobu scene from the most recent Owarimonogatari there's tons and tons of people going "yeah, and that's exactly why I watch this series". That just because you (or anyone else saying people just like it for the lewd and that's it) don't feel the same so it's all because of the girls? Don't get me wrong, of course them being good looking girls has an influence on this but if everyone who likes it says it's because of the amazing dialogues chances are it's because of the dialogues or whatever else the person said and not just some closet I'm-too-scared-to-admit-it's-because-of-the-girls reaction. Especially when the people in question aren't even ashamed about saying they liked other shows like DxD or whatever else in the first place. I get that not everyone is going to like it and that's fine. In fact I'd agree with the innitial statement this is about. But reducing it to just "duh, pretty girls" is pretty silly |
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Valhern
 Posts: 916 |
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I've been meaning to watch the Monogatari series for a long time, and as much as I would've preferred other series I already know of for the classic review, but since it was on my plans and I already dropped two shows this season I felt like "Hey, anytime is as good".
I don't particularly know much about Monogatari other than some memes that I barely get. I expected to be really annoyed by fanservice and complicated dialogue, but I actually laughed when I was literally 7 seconds into this show and I was already looking at a panty shot, and not ironically or like "Hah, pathetic", but the fact that it was so on my face and upfront, I couldn't say anything. Furthermore, the fact that every fanservice moment is like a quick shot and in a bizarre fashion, it makes me interested on how crazy it will get to not bore me. Like, any other show would have the expected face on boobs incident, or walking up on a girl undressing and they go "kyaa". It was fresh in a weird way for me, especially when Araragi apparently was thinking about catgirls for some reason. There are probably only two things that I didn't like about this first episode and it was the scene that supposedly foreshadows events and characters with quick, minimalistic background and text. The problem isn't that it has me to make the video stop and go back every time, the problem is that it defeats the idea that Nick points out on how this is not about Araragi's condition as a half vampire (or whatever he is), because that prologue already tells me about fantasy stuff, and that Aararagi will be involved somehow. It might have an eventual meaning, but it kinda kills that idea. The other problem is that the meta dialogue is a bit...unnecesary. Like, Senjougahara saying "I would fit in the description of a tsundere, right?" is like literally telling me "No, she is not really a tsundere!" something that I could pick up as easy. By the way, I don't know if there is another reason, but the kani - kami wordplay fell a little flat for me. Now what I really liked is the different focuses and ideas that Akiyuki Shinbo is so known for, it really entertains you through such a wordy episode, because the way the episode is framed it usually makes your eye go directly to where it should focus, without overlaying something deeper, I especially loved Aararagi playing with his pencil and when the blonde vampire girl is shown so far away from everyone. I also liked how this has been mostly about Senjougahara and how you can easily pick up that it's about how she became "hollow" but she's blaming the gods for it, and is very aggresive when the topic is brought up, and so far I'm interested in this because while it uses a lot of metaphore, it's not that you cannot tell what it's talking about. So far I'm pretty okay with Araragi, I expect that he becomes more active. So, this is a rather interesting experience, watching a finished show and reading reviews of someone already deep into the show. PD: Wow this anime makes you write a lot. |
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maxwell3094
 Posts: 148 |
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Well this should be pretty interesting. As someone mostly new to the series who also tends to be pretty oblivious to things like the meaning behind shot framing I'll be glad to have you along to explain stuff for me Nick. Ended up putting the show on hold after the like 2nd arc forever ago and just never got around to watching more of it. Now is as good a time as any to make a more serious attempt at trying to get into this series.
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Jayhosh
 Posts: 972 Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania |
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I'm not female, but I was in your exact same predicament once. Some of the users here convinced me to give it another shot (it had been years since I last tried to watch it) and I ended up coming out quite liking it overall. There are some aspects of it that I'm not all that fond of, but even those tend to be done in such unique and ridiculous ways that I can't really hate them. i.e. Mainly the fanservice. I also never liked the sister characters at all, so Nisemonogatari was a huge slog for me to get through. And occasionally the dialogue does become pedantic and pointless. Though again, half the time it's still kind of interesting. All that being said, if you find yourself barely being able to push through this season, I think it's safe to just give up on liking the series. No shame in that, not every show's for everybody. I just watched this show like a month and a half ago, so I won't be rewatching it for these reviews since it's still fresh in my mind. Bake was one of my favorite seasons though, probably only tied with most of Second Season. Also, is Araragi really a self-insert protagonist? Something about him makes him much more interesting to me than most which that label applies to. And I definitely wouldn't want to be in his shoes a majoirty of the time either, lol. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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What is it about Koyomi's character that would create a disconnect if an otaku would want to self-insert as him? My main issue with Koyomi as a character pops up for the first time I believe in episode 2, so I'll discuss that when the review of episode 2 pops up.
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Jayhosh
Posts: 972 Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania |
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I mean, I don't really ascribe to that trope in general, unless it's very obviously the first and foremost intention of the writers. Lots of characters could be considered "self-inserts" if you really wanted to. I get that this series is a harem, so naturally the idea that all these girls want this guy's junk is very palatable for a horny otaku audience. Perhaps it isn't that he isn't a self-insert character, but rather that he is one, but he's also more than that. He makes decisions that I don't think always align with that otaku desire, and has more conviction overall I suppose. Plus there's the fact that he actually has a girlfriend, which means two things to me. The first is that he's actually capable of beginning and maintaining a relationship (most protagonists of harem shows are such spineless losers that half the time they aren't even aware that any of these girls like them), and the second is that because of this he knows where to draw a line with the other girls (and even turns down one of them). Well, most of the time, anyway. That's part of the reason why I didn't like Nisemonogatari as much.
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Valhern
Posts: 916 |
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I feel a little conflicted about this episode. If I had to be honest, I know that I liked it, and there's a lot to like about it, but some of its handling didn't let me enjoy as much as I wanted.
For example, the first scene in Senjougahara's house, I'm okay with the fanservice, I still like how ambituous and upfront it is, but I couldn't help but get slightly bored that they were doing the same thing as the previous episode, talking about how dumb Araragi is, now add that he likes space and he's horny as hell. Then in the end, while I love Kamiya's voice (and the fact that it's muffled when he's monologing), I hate that EVERYTHING is spelled out for me, I could understand most of the emotional breakdown Senjougahara was going through even without the specific narrative details; they're not unnecesary, but for such a strong direction, relying purely on the dialogue felt like a really bad choice. Lastly, while I understand that Senjougahara took her head out of her ass, it was weird how monotone her voice was. She sounded like a receptionist instead of a thankful person except when she smiled. Also that transtion from crying to "Eh, feeling better" was just too fast to land correctly. Then again, there is a lot to like here, the imagery, the thematic, the character work in general was great. Now I'm looking forward to episode 3, the preview makes it look pretty interesting from both Senjougahara and Araragi's side. |
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Furuzaki
 Posts: 105 |
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Or THIS is a show that deserves to be veiwed in japanese ~ Imagine if The Simpsons were dubbed into Japanese. Wouldn't that just be weird? Ha ha ha, I'll just show myself out ~ |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11339 |
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Wow, that classroom had at least 42 desks in it. I didn't think such overcrowding was a problem in Japanese schools.
I made it through the first two episodes, but I don't know how much longer I'll last. The pretentious subliminal text screens kept me from finishing Sayonara Zetsubō Sensei, which I loved, and I almost gave up in frustration even before the OP rolled in the first episode of this. It's vaguely interesting otherwise, but honestly, the only thing keeping me around right now is Kamiya and Sakurai. I'm not sure that's enough. |
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MiloTheFirst
Posts: 429 |
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I had interpreted the whole weight analogy as something entirely different. The "weight" had nothing to do with her body nor its value, it was supposed to symbolize her emotional baggage. She was frustrated by her conflicting feelings, she couldn't forgive her mother but still wanted to believe in her, senjougahara believes she did the right thing by protecting herself but wonders if her family wouldn't have broken up if she had just took it and withstood the pain. She didn't want to deal with all that frustration but instead of dealing with it and reaching a resolution she cheated by ignoring them altogether thus a weight was lifted off her back though in an unhealthy manner. She can't be disappointed of her mother if she has no expectations of her to begin with, she can't regret a broken home if she isn't attached to it. but memories and the feelings attached to them are the foundations of personal growth by refusing them she is rendered into an empty shell. I think the show was relatively explicit on it I think Nick tried to make a connection where there was none, but that's just my opinion. Senjougahara deliberately Arousing Araragi was just her trying to establish herself as in control of the conversation. in negotiations the one who shows anxiety first loses. |
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rinkwolf10
Posts: 750 |
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I wouldn't say so, the dialogue construct is much like The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, just instead of monologues inside his head (Kyon) Araragi says those things out loud. Hell, I believe Chrispen Freedman be a perfect match for the protagonist. |
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MiloTheFirst
Posts: 429 |
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A dub would not be plausible considering how much the escenario relies on puns based on japanese mythology.
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