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EP. REVIEW: Interviews with Monster Girls


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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:28 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
Blood- wrote:
I have a pretty strong, "sigh, that's anime for ya" filter.


And that's the problem Blood-, you shouldn't have to. But anime producers know we have these filters so they often don't care to do better.


No, anime producers know their core Japanese otaku audience and create shows to appeal to them. They couldn't give a toss if non-Japanese otaku audiences have a filter or not. It's irrelevant. That's why I don't get all bent out of shape when an entertainment format which is not designed to accommodate my Western sensibilities, doesn't.


Well, I was obviously using the Royal "we" there to refer to all anine fans whether Western or Jjapanese. I'm trying to give Otaku a little bit of credit here. But if you wanna say theY are all tasteless slobs whow are happily manipulated by anime studios that's on you :3

I just don't buy the whole "Japanese audience is less sophisticated than western audiences" argument. Never have. I think a lot of them see what we see when it comes to the bs that gets pulled in some anime. But no one is going to form a dam protest movement over it.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23769
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:40 pm Reply with quote
I am not advancing a "Japanese audience is less sophisticated than Western audiences" argument here. I'm saying that Japanese anime producers tailor their product to what they believe their core demographic wants. In other words, they do what content producers all over the world do: try, as best they can, satisfy the people who pay for the product. I have no doubt that some Japanese otaku would have the same objections Western viewers have. An argument could no doubt be made that by pandering to a relatively small, inelastic group, Japanese anime producers are limiting its appeal to the domestic market. But for you or me as solitary Western observers to claim that we know better than the people who have grown up in the market and live it and who have access to information we do not is an act of bullshit arrogance.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:55 pm Reply with quote
Here's the thing. That argument you just made has been made countless times throughout time immemorial whenever someone makes an objective argument about something in anime being done shitty.

"Ohh, that's just your western sensibilities. Crappy character development? That's how the Japanese roll! Bad writing? That's the Japanese way! Plot that's just servicing the writer's personal wish fulfilment and has no real internal logic or consistency? Haha, anime producers know their audience!" It's always used as some trump card.Personally, I would LOVE it if one time when someone tries that, the other person is a Japanese dude and is like, "uh, really?" That would be the best winning of the Internet ever.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:43 pm Reply with quote
CK, that's a garbage argument. Nobody has ever defended crappy character development or bad writing as "the Japanese way." Can we please have a discussion that doesn't devolve into strawman idiocy? What is relevant is that there are certain cultural mores that do not translate from Japan to the West. Having students flirt with a teacher wouldn't raise many eyebrows among Japanese otakus. It is more likely to be objectionable to some Western viewers. That's just a fact. And yes, it would be objectionable to some Japanese viewers, as well - just not the people who actually buy the stuff.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:15 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
CK, that's a garbage argument. Nobody has ever defended crappy character development or bad writing as "the Japanese way." Can we please have a discussion that doesn't devolve into strawman idiocy? What is relevant is that there are certain cultural mores that do not translate from Japan to the West. Having students flirt with a teacher wouldn't raise many eyebrows among Japanese otakus. It is more likely to be objectionable to some Western viewers. That's just a fact. And yes, it would be objectionable to some Japanese viewers, as well - just not the people who actually buy the stuff.


Lol, you say nobody like I won't point at it with a huge, flashing neon sign next time it happens Smile Seriously though, it just annoys me a lot when people make the argument of discrediting criticism by saying "western sensibilities." It's such a cop out and can literally be applied to anything. It always functions as this trump card that gets thrown in and it is literally impossible to debate the merits of "western vs eastern" sensibilities without going knee deep into cringey stereotypes. I just don't think it should be used. It's better to argue based on our own knowledge of what's good and bad, and if some guy in an anime company executive office somewhere is deciding what's good for eastern sensibilities well good for him, but I just don't see how we can have a serious debate about that.
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#844391



Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Posts: 517
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:34 am Reply with quote
man, I just finished watching episode 3 and had this fuzzy warm feeling and then I come to the forums and there's a war going on. going to retreat to the demi-chan subreddit for now
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Eldritcho



Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 260
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:23 am Reply with quote
After seeing episode 3 I am officially sold on this series. All of the characters have proven themselves to be incredibly likable, and all of their predicaments, while a bit out there due to their demi nature, really are just slightly more irritating versions of the day to day problems a lot of young people face.

This season has proven to be a pretty promising one so far.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:15 am Reply with quote
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
Blood- wrote:
CK, that's a garbage argument. Nobody has ever defended crappy character development or bad writing as "the Japanese way." Can we please have a discussion that doesn't devolve into strawman idiocy? What is relevant is that there are certain cultural mores that do not translate from Japan to the West. Having students flirt with a teacher wouldn't raise many eyebrows among Japanese otakus. It is more likely to be objectionable to some Western viewers. That's just a fact. And yes, it would be objectionable to some Japanese viewers, as well - just not the people who actually buy the stuff.


Lol, you say nobody like I won't point at it with a huge, flashing neon sign next time it happens Smile Seriously though, it just annoys me a lot when people make the argument of discrediting criticism by saying "western sensibilities."


Except that nobody is making that argument here. In fact, I specifically pointed out that I understood the views of those who were bothered by certain aspects (i.e. kissing a teacher, having a teacher seemingly condone a student crush, etc) and even shared them to a certain extent, but that those things were not preventing me from enjoying the show as a whole. I fully understand and sympathize with any viewer whose non-Japanese otaku background causes them to dislike things that happen in anime. My only point is that when you watch an entertainment format that is not designed with your sensibility in mind, that is not tailored to your particular cultural norms, you pays your money and you takes your chances.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:00 am Reply with quote
Since we've simply circled back around to the beginning I won't belabor the point. Perhaps this will be a topic for a specific thread addressing this whole "it's made for people with other sensibilities" premise which I simply find to be odious. But I'll just carry on with my critique or praise, whichever this particular show deserves.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:15 am Reply with quote
I guess I'm not really understanding your point. For you, is the reality that anime is not a cultural product intended for you as a Western viewer odious because:

1) You believe anime producers should be taking into account sensibilites other than their target market or,

2) You simply don't accept the reality that anime isn't designed for you as a Western viewer.

It it's 1) then good luck with that and if it's 2) enjoy the colour in your world.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:48 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
I guess I'm not really understanding your point. For you, is the reality that anime is not a cultural product intended for you as a Western viewer odious because:

1) You believe anime producers should be taking into account sensibilites other than their target market or,

2) You simply don't accept the reality that anime isn't designed for you as a Western viewer.

It it's 1) then good luck with that and if it's 2) enjoy the colour in your world.


I'm going to make a separate thread on this in the general anime forum so I can more specifically explain my opinion. To summarize, I think that saying "it's not for your western sensibilities" only works for things that are demonstrably Japanese cultural norms. Things such as "fantasy about teacher boning his students" do not fit into that category.
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Key
Moderator


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18186
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:27 am Reply with quote
^
In any case, any further discussion of that topic should be moved to the thread CK is creating in the other forum. It's done for this thread.

(And yes, this is a Moderator directive.)
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Kendra Kirai



Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 187
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:25 pm Reply with quote
Zin5ki wrote:
Episode two was thoroughly charming.
If there is anything to Kyoko's predicament that might endear the viewer to her plight for acceptance and normality, we were gratefully treated to it. True to the show's presumed cause, what begins as an odd character gimmick is afforded more dimension than one would expect: while she clearly sustains herself on affirmation from others, she also enjoys a certain agency, self-conception and independence that would be unusual of the moe stereotype after which she is seemingly modelled.

While Megiddo is correct to say that a wider focus on society is absent as of yet, Kyoko's feelings and concerns for herself are treated with too much care to flatly dismiss the writing. Still, it may be helpful to corroborate my views with others at this juncture. I would be interested to hear if anyone else contends that Kyoko aids the show's undercurrent of inclusivity, or conversely that her presentation attracts more lighthearted charm than any earnest empathy. I relish stories like this, you see, to the extent that my judgement is perhaps distorted.



I don't understand why people bring up 'wider focus on society' when it's clear that being a demihuman is simply something you're born with. Its no different from being born blind, or deaf, or being unable to use your legs, or any number of other genetic issues. Demihumans have certain physical needs that are more or less helped by the government if possible, though it seems most demihumans need only the most basic of assistance (like a monthly ration of blood for vampires) or some minor bending of certain rules (like letting a dullahan use a backpack instead of the usual school bag).

It's not like they just started appearing one day and people were randomly turning into demihumans, or there was a spate of centaurs needing to use busses and elevators, or there were suddenly Dragons flying around everywhere and razing the countryside.
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kgw



Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 1061
Location: Spain, EU
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:56 pm Reply with quote
While I like the series, I admit that the teacher's relationship with the students will rise a few eyebrows in real life.

"So yes, I got alone with this underage student of mine and talk her about personal issues, You know, food, what she likes, or romantic relationships, and some hints about sex, then she gave me a peek. Oh, and that was after she set up a date for me with another of my students... now can you tell me why the police is here?" Very Happy
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Vannil



Joined: 14 Jun 2016
Posts: 240
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:42 pm Reply with quote
even if the anime has covered most of the first two GNs, I am really liking the direction the series is going. This may be this seasons's hidden gem.
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