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Answerman - Are Oscar Campaigns For Anime Worth It?


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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15279
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 6:39 am Reply with quote
Eric: There's nothing Oscar bait-ey about Silence. They're just trying to go there, because they know there's not much demand for it elsewhere, even in Japan. As for Pon Poko and Princess Mononoke, yeah, I'm not surprised those didn't make it in for Foreign. Too Japanese and no relatable universal themes. In fact, the only reason Kaguya got in at all was because they chose to shut out something else which was anime, because they don't consider Ghibli to be anime.

Gemnist: I wasn't a fan of Suicide Squad, but if they're gonna go there, they could've also picked Deadpool for at least original Song, and give George Michael his due.

bw: Meh, if we're talking '02, then the Rintaro Metropolis deserved to get in, too. But they picked Jimmy Neutron instead. Rolling Eyes As for Your Name, it got an L.A. Critics Award and a mention in EW, and a campaign. The voters just didn't want to play ball, because, again, it's anime. Although, to be fair this time, the only types of films which have as hard a time getting respect as those of the anime variety are comedy and horror. There are only a few films of the latter two groups which didn't get snubbed.
Hell, a certain nameless comedy is attributed with hurting Eddie Murphy's chances of nabbing his first Oscar.

Jose: India produces a lot of films, but few stand out, because of that.

leafy: Again, those are Ghibli movies, not anime movies. And it had nothing to do w/ Gkids. As for Kubo, it normally would be passed up, but at least it's not anime, so...
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residentgrigo



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:06 am Reply with quote
On the topic of the Oscars having no weight anymore (we would also have no topic if that was true):
The Black List Table Reads: http://blacklist.wolfpop.com/
The podcast is part of the titular program for screenplays and they had heaps of Academy nominated writers on the show. Basically all agreed on the Oscars, Globes and so on being career makers.
Oscar Buzz also fully drives the Oscar season films. Just look at Live By Night (6,5/10). WB though that it would be up for major awards, so they timed the release around the Oscar season, which would immediately create interest in the film... if all went right. The Academy though didn´t care for it, it is now surrounded by all these films that are getting pushed and the film bombed. Hups.
The Oscars thus fully matter monetarily for about 2 months or so. Unless you are Disney. The top 5 grossing films of 2016 we just by them. They arguably are Hollywood now.

Summer aka. Blockbuster Season though needs no such critical fluff, Michael Bay say hello. Opening weeks are driven by a different type of hype. Pepsi deals, Super Bowl commercials, all these vapid Youtube shows and so on. It also starts earlier and earlier.

@EricJ2 Silence is my 3rd favorite film of 2016. It 100% looks like Oscar Bait but the 2 decade development hell it went though, the ultra slow pacing, and the somewhat limited appeal made it a "real" film in the end. Papa Scorsese also already learned that "daring" Jesus film can only get Oscar nods, not wins, with The Last Temptation of Christ.

@GATSU Squad is up for makeup and deservedly so. Croc and the all piratical Eyes of Adversary minions were NO joke. (I also liked the film itself.) Complain about A Man Called Ove being there!
Norbit deserved it´s makeup nod in the past. It´s a hate crime but the gender bending fat suit is a legit accomplishment. Bayformers have great effects and so on. Throw the tech and makeup slaves a bone!
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:49 am Reply with quote
resident: I didn't say Suicide Squad shouldn't get in. I'm just saying they should've given Deadpool something, too. Especially since it had a higher box office return and RT score than Suicide Squad. But again, it was a comedy, and that's a different 'stigma' movies gotta overcome to win at the Oscars.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:22 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
0nsen wrote:
Haven't the Oscars stopped being relevant, like, 20 years ago? Are they still doing their shenanigans? Geez.


They have never stopped being relevant. That year with The Dark Knight was the first time, to my knowledge, the Oscars didn't bring in the top viewership, but it went back up to the top the following year. (Also, every year, the Oscars become the dominant topic of conversation around me, and it's been this way for as long as I can remember.)


Close: The correct answer is that the Oscars stopped being relevant in 2004.

The reason for that historical cutoff date is that the Academy finally got sick of Harvey Weinstein at Miramax (and later the Weinstein Company) trying to "groom" another surefire Oscar-bait on the heels of "Shakespeare in Love" and "Life Is Beautiful"--or whatever other specially handpicked critical-bait Miramax had found commercial-breakout success that year--by drowning the voters in high-pressure FYC campaigns...Or as Oscar fans called it, the annual "Miramax Bribe".
Since every other wannabe studio was pumping up the last-minute volume too, the Committee in '04 shortened the nominating/voting period by one month, deadlining the February nominations for January, and announcing the March awards in February.
And as we know from The Artist, The King's Speech and My Week With Marilyn...it didn't work.

Namely, the plan had backfired SPECTACULARLY: Overworked actors and film-crew folk now had one less month to watch their missed screeners and judge what was the best film of the year, and now do pretty much what we civilians do when we haven't gotten around to watching the movies yet either--
"Fantasy-baseball" filtering the nominees by taking whatever gets the most frequent buzz-mention on the Golden Globes, and whatever gets a consensus of Critics-Circle awards, and judging "relative odds".

The "Dark Knight" ten-nomination rule in '08 happened partly of Batsies crying that they didn't get their public validation, and that "real movies" weren't nominated (go on fansites and hear the jokes about why Ryan Reynolds didn't get anything for Deadpool), but also people thought Pixar's Wall-E had been "exiled" to "just" a Best Animated, but would have kicked "Slumdog Millonaire"'s hinder in a fair fight.
Rule changes in the ten-nomination voting was meant to allow more votes for commercial films (which, because of the movies we got, rarely happened), but also allowed voters to include an animated vote for Picture--Which the Pixar fans immediately made up for lost time with nominating "Up" and "Toy Story 3" in the next two years.
And voters who previously had enough trouble guessing five nominees now had to guess at eight to ten, on even more rumors and less personal experience. ("Well, everybody said District 9 and Inglorious Basterds was going to get something, so...")

Originally, after '15's nail-biting race between "Boyhood" and "Birdman" became the lowest-rated Oscar TV ceremony in history, the Committee announced in spring they were planning to retire the rule and go back to five nominees, but after summer, suddenly did a reversal, and said they'd keep the multi-nom rule one more year. What changed their minds that year?--Well, they wouldn't have been allowed Pixar's "Inside Out" for Best Picture if that had happened. (Which, early on, was considered THE front-runner.)
"But Inside Out didn't get nominated!" Yyyyyeah. Confused That's getting back to that little "Letting the Golden Globes write the awards for us" thing I mentioned, since the Globes has a rule against animated movies for their Picture. And when IO was shut out of the Globes, every fantasy-baseball Globes-watcher industry analyst cried, "No nomination?--Oh well, they know best, guess that's the ballgame!"

SO: Now you know why '03's "LOTR: Return of the King" is considered, quote, "The last Great Oscar Picture."
History, not opinion. (Although it is.)
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:21 pm Reply with quote
I too have doubts Funimation is even playing the industry insider game at all.
Are they even getting screeners into the right hands?
Are they making sure that Jim Reardon and Jin Kim of Disney and Kirk DeMicco and Kristof Serrand of Dreamworks are getting screeners?

However, the problem is that even if the Oscar voters did get the screeners, there's no way to tell if they will watch or even care for it as mentioned by this article: Proof That Oscar Voters Are Clueless About Animation. Excerpt from anonymous survey of voters last year:
Quote:
Voter #5: I only watch the ones that my kid wants to see, so I didn’t see [The] Boxtrolls but I saw Big Hero 6 and I saw [How to Train Your] Dragon [2]. We both connected to Big Hero 6 — I just found it to be more satisfying. The biggest snub for me was Chris Miller and Phil Lord not getting in for [The] Lego [Movie]. When a movie is that successful and culturally hits all the right chords and does that kind of box-office — for that movie not to be in over these two obscure freakin’ Chinese fuckin’ things that nobody ever freakin’ saw [an apparent reference to the Japanese film The Tale of the Princess Kaguya, as well as the Irish film Song of the Sea]? That is my biggest bitch. Most people didn’t even know what they were! How does that happen? That, to me, is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen.
MY VOTE: Big Hero 6

Voter #6: I saw all five. I like to sit down with [the young people in her family] and watch them. We all loved Big Hero 6 and there was no discussion, no argument, no nothing. The kids watched that one three times — what does that tell you?
MY VOTE: Big Hero 6

Voter #7: Frankly, I didn’t see any of them.
MY VOTE: I abstain.


So apparently making sure their kids like anime and get to see the film is the best way to get an Oscar, and that's only if their parents don't have a bias against "Chinese freakin things"
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Paiprince



Joined: 21 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:57 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:

So apparently making sure their kids like anime and get to see the film is the best way to get an Oscar, and that's only if their parents don't have a bias against "Chinese freakin things"


Exactly what I think and why there are enablers here rationalizing their horrible attitudes out of the pretense of, "m-muh mainstream money" is ridiculous in itself.

Let's face the music here. Those fogeys don't respect animation and its fans. Let this be known to all lest the US and its mainstream will forever be dancing to the tune of the Animation Ghetto.
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:11 pm Reply with quote
Paiprince wrote:
Let's face the music here. Those fogeys don't respect animation and its fans. Let this be known to all lest the US and its mainstream will forever be dancing to the tune of the Animation Ghetto.


Some do, some don't. Otherwise, there wouldn't be animated movies coming out every year from Hollywood.

The main thing, I think, is that many of the people who vote watch so many movies that they don't have time to see everything screened to them. So, like any normal person, they'll pick what appeals to them the most and start with that. Another thing is that many of these voters skew towards the 40's or older and grew up during a time when animated film was a kids-only thing and you were shamed for watching them if you were an adult.

Finally, one last thought: People in the business take a lot of pride in what they do and what their colleagues do, and I met a bunch of people who treated out-of-Hollywood entertainment as rivals of sorts. I've tried to talk about video games and anime to some people there, and it's like trying to talk about Red Sox to a Yankees fan.
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Paiprince



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:30 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
Paiprince wrote:
Let's face the music here. Those fogeys don't respect animation and its fans. Let this be known to all lest the US and its mainstream will forever be dancing to the tune of the Animation Ghetto.


Some do, some don't. Otherwise, there wouldn't be animated movies coming out every year from Hollywood.

The main thing, I think, is that many of the people who vote watch so many movies that they don't have time to see everything screened to them. So, like any normal person, they'll pick what appeals to them the most and start with that. Another thing is that many of these voters skew towards the 40's or older and grew up during a time when animated film was a kids-only thing and you were shamed for watching them if you were an adult.

Finally, one last thought: People in the business take a lot of pride in what they do and what their colleagues do, and I met a bunch of people who treated out-of-Hollywood entertainment as rivals of sorts. I've tried to talk about video games and anime to some people there, and it's like trying to talk about Red Sox to a Yankees fan.


First, let's focus on the Oscar judges, not the outsiders who just happen to share their POV. Regardless, these do not excuse their outright exclusive, lackadaisical attitude the powers that be in the Oscars have been getting away for far too long.

AFAIK, none of the requirements for a piece of film to qualify is for it to completely cater to their tastes and values. Also, it is a cop out excuse for them simply not having time when it is their obligation to view and judge every single submission. It is their job. That should already set them apart from the "normal person" who watches movies mainly for leisure.

I stand by my opinion that the entire committee is in dire need of a full restructuring in compliance to OUR time, not theirs. Their temperaments in regards to foreign animation belong in a museum.
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EricJ2



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:03 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
The main thing, I think, is that many of the people who vote watch so many movies that they don't have time to see everything screened to them. So, like any normal person, they'll pick what appeals to them the most and start with that. Another thing is that many of these voters skew towards the 40's or older and grew up during a time when animated film was a kids-only thing and you were shamed for watching them if you were an adult.


Again, unlike other categories, Best Animated are nominated by animators (which is how the arthouse GANIAF's get recognized), but voted on by the mainstream voters.
And an animator would get a lot more excited about "Song of the Sea" than a more normal person would. Or did, in theaters.

Spirited Away was probably the one mainstream-breakout movie of Ghibli/Miyazaki's career after Kiki, so it had no problem beating the US competition in '02.
Even over Lilo & Stitch, which was still largely cult word-of-mouth following, Treasure Planet which still unfairly scarlet-lettered as a "flop" after its Eisner-bungled box-office, Ice Age which people thought was "new" back then, and...did we really have to nominate "Spirit" just because it was a Dreamworks movie?
(Sorry, it's been fifteen years, and I'm still disgruntled about the folks who said "Spirited Away got an Oscar?...That horse movie? That [stank!]")
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GATSU



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:57 pm Reply with quote
config: There are no 'right' hands. They're treating anime films with the same disdain they used to treat Beauty and the Beast, when it was gunning for Best Picture. The only anime which has gotten in at all has been Possessions from Short Peace, but in the shorts category. Also, those voters are lying. They hated the Lego Movie and Big Hero 6 equally. But, again, see above.

Quote:
[an apparent reference to the Japanese film The Tale of the Princess Kaguya, as well as the Irish film Song of the Sea]


Not Song of the Sea, but Giovanni's Island, which was also in contention that year.


Last edited by GATSU on Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:58 am; edited 2 times in total
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:01 am Reply with quote
That's the thing though--it's not their job. They're not paid to do so, and there are very few rules about what they need to do. To watch them is voluntary, and it seems the system is designed for this, considering the screeners are called "For Your Consideration"--that is, it's a begging to nominate the movie.

I would agree with you though that the lack of organization in the voting system is open to abuse and that it needs new rules, namely that they either ought to see these movies at least once or they must abstain. I don't know how it can be enforced though. (Animation is not the only type of film that gets the shaft like this though.)
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Jayhosh



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:15 am Reply with quote
residentgrigo wrote:
Kimi no Na wa. didn´t get "snubbed", it´s the Titanic equivalent of the anime scene. It sure looks nice but boy oh boy is it a formula driven slog. And now hype driven on top. It will get a reassessment in a decade, mark my words.

...Zootopia should win the animated category.


You call Your Name a "formula driven slog," yet you claim that Zootopia, the epitome of formula driven (Disney) slog, should win? Yes, I get it, it had deep social commentary, and the academy eats that crap up (and yes, we all know it will 100% absolutely win), but the basic plot and characters in the film are strictly formulaic imo.

GATSU wrote:
Eric: There's nothing Oscar bait-ey about Silence. They're just trying to go there, because they know there's not much demand for it elsewhere, even in Japan. As for Pon Poko and Princess Mononoke, yeah, I'm not surprised those didn't make it in for Foreign. Too Japanese and no relatable universal themes. In fact, the only reason Kaguya got in at all was because they chose to shut out something else which was anime, because they don't consider Ghibli to be anime.

leafy: Again, those are Ghibli movies, not anime movies. And it had nothing to do w/ Gkids. As for Kubo, it normally would be passed up, but at least it's not anime, so...


Ghibli films are anime. They're Japanese animated films. Sorry to burst your bubble. Also, Princess Mononoke has no relatable, universal themes? Oh, I guess that's why it's one of Ghibli and Miyazaki's most popular and well loved films. Apparently environmentalism and the beauty of nature and life aren't relatable and universal themes. Who knew. Also, Princess Kaguya got in because it was a damn good film. And even if you're going to use the poor "Ghibli isn't anime so they nominated it" excuse, that doesn't really make much sense in that case considering that Kaguya is probably the most un-Ghibli looking Ghibli film ever made. Both the avant-garde animation and art style as well as the fact that it wasn't directed by Miyazaki make it a much harder sell than something like The Wind Rises or When Marnie Was There.

I would have liked for Your Name to get nominated based on the potential mainstream exposure and that's pretty much it. I don't really care about the awards otherwise and I don't think a lot of the people here should either. I mean, they say they don't care, but despite this they still seem to end up disappointed with anime not getting nominated or winning year after year. But regardless of this, the film really doesn't have a need for it. It will be exposed to the people who would normally want to watch it. Princess Kaguya got nominated yet despite that I never hear anyone talking about that or being even remotely familiar with it in conversation (a damn shame too).
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GATSU



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:05 am Reply with quote
Jayhosh:
Quote:
Apparently environmentalism and the beauty of nature and life aren't relatable and universal themes.


Not the way it's told there. It's not Ferngully.

Quote:
Also, Princess Kaguya got in because it was a damn good film.


No, it got in, because it's Ghibli, and thus not considered 'anime'.

Quote:
that doesn't really make much sense in that case considering that Kaguya is probably the most un-Ghibli looking Ghibli film ever made.


That's precisely my point. They wouldn't normally pick it if it were anime.

Quote:
Princess Kaguya got nominated yet despite that I never hear anyone talking about that or being even remotely familiar with it in conversation (a damn shame too).


The nomination helped give value to a film which was initially a money-loser. That's all that matters.
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TopGunman



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:43 am Reply with quote
Doesn't matter to me, All we're gonna get are cutesy-poo babysitter movies being nominated. Even if FUNimation worked to get Wolf Children nominated 'OH MY LORD! A BREAST FEEDING SCENE! NOT HAVING THAT!!' (much less the implied sex scene) or The Boy and the Beast "OH, THERE'S RELIGIOUS REFERENCES!! NOT OKAY FOR THE YOUNG'UNS!!" (although I do admit the latter is kind of crap).
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ChibiKangaroo



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:30 am Reply with quote
Oscar campaigns for anime will not be worth it until anime starts regularly putting out content that is worthy of the award. I agree that the Oscar voters are mostly out of touch old men and most of the voting seems to have a political bias, but that doesn't change the fact that the movies do have to at least be good to get in. Your Name might be an awesome anime, but Oscar voters are likely to have a pre-existing bias against anime in general due to the amount of crap that comes out.

Ask yourself this - how many times have you said to friends and family who are not fans of anime, "Hey, I have this really cool show I want you to see" and you put it on, and it might be a fairly awesome example of an anime show/movie/whatever, but then there are certain parts of it that play heavily to some common anime trope (something that doesn't play well to the general audience) and you have to feel slightly embarrassed about, or perhaps its just something that is an "in joke" or anime convention that seems stupid to people not fans of anime. Now imagine you are showing that same stuff to old men who have very particular, and probably scrutinizing tastes in the "proper" construction of a movie. Probably not going to go over well for the vast majority of anime (even some of the stronger entries), with or without the politics.

So yea, the Oscars aren't fair, but anime is not making enough Oscar worthy content to make consistent, serious contention a realistic possibility.
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