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INTEREST: Shōjo Manga Expert Uses Statistics to Reveal 'What Girls Truly Want'


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BodaciousSpacePirate
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Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 3017
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:15 pm Reply with quote
musouka wrote:
I have no issue with a man compiling data. Data is data.


Ah, I misunderstood you.

Yeah, I also have a big problem with his leap from "this is what is marketed to women as fantasy" and "this is what women want in a real-life man". There's no way that would fly in an actual, peer-reviewed journal.
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manapear



Joined: 02 May 2014
Posts: 1524
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:04 am Reply with quote
Tsuruhami wrote:

Also BL is one of thew few erotica aimed at women. Many hentai/porn aimed at men, and there's few erotica aimed at women so they read BL. So it's not like women read BL because they hate themselves.


I just wanted to chime in and correct this. While the number has gone down over the years (as with mainstream manga), there are magazines dedicated to hetero porn/erotica for women. And they sell tankobon. There's a fair diversity in them too, but they're not usually, readily available in the West compared to yaoi/BL or het stuff aimed at guys, or talked about often. Which is a completely different subject, of course. x'D;

As for the article. Interesting numbers. Kind of obvious stuff, if you're already in the know. But I can see how some of this would be new to some people and something for them to learn and understand better. Unsurprised that there's some fascinating pushback against some of what he says.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:37 am Reply with quote
Cutiebunny wrote:
Quote:
Women who like BL need an escape from the toils of being women.


LOL

It couldn't possibly be because shoujo and josei manga have cookie-cutter plots. Or that "romance" in shoujo and josei manga involves lots of blushing, and maybe...a peck on the lips. It couldn't possibly be that these women want to see characters having sex. Nope, not at all.


Well, this is from the lens of Japanese culture. While I'm sure there are plenty of people in Japan who consider shoujo and josei to have very similar plots (which this guy himself has pointed out), they continue to be made and continue to follow the same tropes, indicating a neverending demand for them. They're kind of like the Harlequin romance novels here: There isn't much variation to them, most of said variation being the man the protagonist falls for, and they even follow similar progression to your typical shoujo/josei. But they, too, continue to be written.

From what I've read, intimate physical contact among people in a romantic relationship is something of a taboo in Japan, or at least looked down upon, when done in public, unlike in the United States, where such a couple who keep away from each other like that is seen as not loving each other so deeply. On the other hand, Japanese people must see American media with people kissing passionately in the hallways at school and think they're mad.

SilverTalon01 wrote:
So what girls truly want are pretty boys who are good at stuff. Shocker.


More specifically, pretty boys who are good at stuff who notice the socially unremarkable girl and takes charge in the relationship. That is, they are the Prince Charming in the high school setting.

In a way though, they are the analogue to the manga aimed at boys where talented and pretty girls practically fall into the protagonist's lap without him having to do anything.

I wonder if, together, this points to a larger social problem in Japan regarding a lack of iniative, or at least some soul-crushing real world life that causes them to turn to wish fulfillment in their romance.

SilverTalon01 wrote:
In general, I think you're right, but there are exceptions. Ran is definitely an amazing, attractive girl. Is she amazing at the same thing as the protagonist? No. However, it is constantly pointed out that she is pretty remarkable. I think Kagome falls in this group too. Her powers aren't on the same level for straight up fighting, but they're very strong. I don't think it has to be in the same way as the MC to count as remarkable/amazing. In Kagome's case she is very powerful but in a more stereotypical girly way rather than just being one of the guys.

I think shounen is a bit more varied when it comes to the specs of the love interest.


In addition, you have series like Monster Musume, Nisekoi, Love Hina, Kantai Collection (well, it's a game but it still applies), and such where the male protagonist is passive and blank and the female love interest is the interesting one who does things. It's pretty clear in these series that the male viewer is supposed to view himself as said blank male character. (I know there are way more of these, and I've seen this sort of structure a million times, but most of them are so forgettable.)

In Tenchi Muyo!, the series that popularized the harem comedy, Tenchi himself doesn't actually do much until later on and has to be coerced to bring out his latent power. By the end, he IS incredibly powerful and leads the way, but he got that way because his harem shaped him into that.

katscradle wrote:
He’s not really saying anything new; it just drawn from some recent statistics which is interesting.


Since he is a qualified expert on statistics and analysis, however, this piece can be credible academic research material, which is something that doesn't come by often as far as modern fiction goes. Not on the same level as something in a scientific journal, but still at least a source you can cite on Wikipedia that won't get swiftly removed, along with what you typed, because it isn't trustworthy enough.

Chiibi wrote:
In real life, most of us girls DON'T want a relationship of going through a story like that.....because it sounds like a freaking pain in the ass. Anime hyper I sure as hell can't be a guy's mother, therapist, AND girlfriend at the same time. Nope nope nope nope. Rolling Eyes


Heh, makes me think of Christian Weston Chandler, author of Sonichu, who genuinely wants a wife like that (and add in housekeeper, money-maker, and sex toy on top of that). It is, of course, reflected in the comics too: Sonichu goes out to fight evildoers all day and be admired, as his wife Rosechu financially holds up the family, takes care of the children, does the household chores, all with a smile, and then waits patiently for her hubby to come back so they can have sex.

There are many, many things wrong with that guy.
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Kikimani



Joined: 31 Jan 2017
Posts: 23
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:44 am Reply with quote
noblesse oblige wrote:
Though I'm not sure how necessary his research is to figure out that people who turn to a passive activity like reading for their romance are liable to want a passive protaganist as their placeholder in those stories. I found it interesting that the BL characters and relationships in the manga he researched were more diverse than hetero romances.


That's a major assumption to draw from something that was not covered in the studies from what I read. He just looked at the mangas right? He did not do any research on the actual readers for us to know whether or not they have romance in their lives and if that's the reason for their reading choices.

It's an interesting enough look at what's in the mangas but it's too funny that he decided this gave him specific insight into readers when he didn't actually ask them anything? lolol (Did I miss something? I feel like I should read it over.) That would have actually been useful! So many posters here tend to present what Japanese audiences think of this or that; it would have been nice to actually get something concrete.
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:21 am Reply with quote
If he looked at that many pages, then I am going to have to not question his conclusion.
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