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Answerman - Are Anime Music Videos A Dying Art?


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irriadin



Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 22
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:51 pm Reply with quote
willag wrote:
Speak of Yuri!!! on Ice and you shall summon the monster (Re: Me).


The fantastic Celia Phantomhive released her amazing video, Ambition, which I think is probably the best Yuri on Ice video out right now. I'd recommend giving it a watch!
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prime_pm



Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 2333
Location: Your Mother's Bedroom
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:13 pm Reply with quote
xstylus wrote:
Brakus wrote:
p.s. The viewing public might like AMV Hell-style blipvert videos, but most editors and contest coordinators LOATHE them.


THIS.

As a coordinator [Hi, I'm Troy], it was so apoplectic frustrating to see a contest filled with conceptually sublime and flawlessly edited videos get felled in the judging by a video that was nothing but a reel of random 5sec to 10sec gags. I took immense glee in writing the rule that banned them from AX.


As an editor who has been guilty of making a AMV Hell-style video in the past (twice), I can certainly attest to this opinion. You can work around the novelty all you want, it's still just gonna be another AMV Hell vid. And frankly you find in hindsight that most of the segments weren't all that funny (as my second one proved).
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:14 pm Reply with quote
xstylus wrote:
Brakus wrote:
p.s. The viewing public might like AMV Hell-style blipvert videos, but most editors and contest coordinators LOATHE them.


THIS.

As a coordinator [Hi, I'm Troy], it was so apoplectic frustrating to see a contest filled with conceptually sublime and flawlessly edited videos get felled in the judging by a video that was nothing but a reel of random 5sec to 10sec gags. I took immense glee in writing the rule that banned them from AX.


Yep, sounds like they evolved into the YouTube Poops that later became the next big thing as far as fan-edited videos.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5296
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:13 pm Reply with quote
AMVs require to 2 things to work well, good editing and an appropriate song. And sadly while the former is usually more common a lot of them don't use the right music. There used to be an issue a few years back, where people would add random flashing lights, which made it impossible to watch, but that seems to have died down now.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:26 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
AMVs require to 2 things to work well, good editing and an appropriate song. And sadly while the former is usually more common a lot of them don't use the right music. There used to be an issue a few years back, where people would add random flashing lights, which made it impossible to watch, but that seems to have died down now.


Regarding confusing music choices, the same holds true for everything where people are expected to pick a song to use. If you ever go watch amateur competitions for such things, like figure skating, gymnastics, or yo-yoing, you'll find most of them, when asked to pick a song, just pick their favorites with no attempt to synchronize their work to the song or whether or not the song fits what they're doing.
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Pidgeot18



Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:44 pm Reply with quote
Brakus wrote:
p.s. The viewing public might like AMV Hell-style blipvert videos, but most editors and contest coordinators LOATHE them.


It's telling that even for the AMV Hells themselves, the best parts are often the ending credits. I'd also swear the clips kept getting shorter and getting worse over the years.
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pluvia33



Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 194
Location: Dayton, OH, USA
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:04 pm Reply with quote
Pidgeot18 wrote:
I'd also swear the clips kept getting shorter and getting worse over the years.


As far as the standard, numbered entries go, I personally thought that AMV Hell 7 was a bit of a return to form, probably about on par with AMV Hell 4. However, 5 and 6 were definitely weak entries in the series. I remember thinking that one of those two were just flat-out bad, though I don't remember which since I've only watched them each twice ever. That compared to AMV Hell 3 and 4 which I watched so much back in the day that I always knew which clip was coming up next and I've now begun to watch AMV Hell 7 on an almost weekly bases now that I've found a new appreciation for it. But yeah, some people have different tastes and I accept that.
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Crisha
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Joined: 21 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:24 pm Reply with quote
irriadin wrote:
willag wrote:
Speak of Yuri!!! on Ice and you shall summon the monster (Re: Me).


The fantastic Celia Phantomhive released her amazing video, Ambition, which I think is probably the best Yuri on Ice video out right now. I'd recommend giving it a watch!

THAT. Is quite an awesome AMV. Initially, it felt a bit over-edited, but on a second rewatch I didn't think as much so. It's beautifully done at least. I really like how she used the OP song ink effects throughout the video - very nice, creative touch.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention! Loved, favorited, bought the t-shirt!

----

Never cared much for the AMV Hell / Youtube Poops myself, although some can be quite funny. I will always prefer the AMVs that try to tell a story instead.


Last edited by Crisha on Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gwydion



Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 155
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:18 pm Reply with quote
Kazemon15 wrote:
Gwydion wrote:
Considering how some people feel about their old work, I'm not sure how you'll feel about this, but I still have an old Digimon AMV of yours saved on my computer ("I'm With You") - that and a Kouichi AMV set to an Evanescence song are my two oldest Digimon AMVs, and they fill me with much giddy nostalgia. XD (EDIT: And a quick check tells me you did "Looking For the Answers" as well.)


Nooooo delete them, they're horrible! Subtitles galore, no real sync! Im With You was my very first AMV uploaded ever.... lol. Nah, you can keep them. =3 They serve as a good reminder of where I came from, back in the old Windows Movie Maker days....Man I grew alot from that. Over 16 years editing now for me. (Speaking of Digi, I have some Digimon Tri AMVs in the works too...I still haven't forgotten Digimon lol) Well I did remake one f the Evanescence song ones, if you haven't seen it. Better than the Windows Movie Maker one, that's for sure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6fTyhCmpBI


Hahahaha, the fact that I downloaded them despite the subtitles (which I have always been very strongly against) proves how hard up I was for Digimon (especially Frontier) AMVs back in the day, but the fact that I kept them despite finding flashier ones over the years proves something doesn't have to be perfect to be enjoyed. :) Besides, after finally attempting some myself in WMM (and then one much later in Vegas), it was a lot easier to commiserate with those working under the confines of WMM, lol. Also, I remember seeing the old version of the one you linked to as well! It's so neat seeing the updated version - thanks for linking to it! I'll have to browse the rest of your stuff when I get the chance.

Also, count me as someone who never liked Anime Hell type videos. It was the one sort I really never got into. Dramatic, comedic, full of action - all good. Just not the super short weird clips all strung together seemingly randomly.
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RadicalYue



Joined: 24 Feb 2017
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:42 am Reply with quote
I literally registered just to post here after seeing quite a few editors on my personal Facebook post references to this article.

Hi. I'm Yue and I'm heavily involved in the AMV scene. I got into it when I was 14, became an Admin on AnimeMusicVideos.org, assist with running Nan Desu Kan's AMV contest, and am now helping run our own AMV community called AMVCentral.net. I'm 26 now and will be 27 this year.

Now first off, I will say that "Are AMVs dead?" is a topic that has been discussed quite a few times in quite a few communities including the Americans, the French, the Russians, etc. It never really yielded any type of solid answer or response but I've personally come to a conclusion all of my own after all these years. AMVs are not dead. They are alive and thriving. But they are spread.

Every year I run or assist with running contests both online and at conventions and I meet new editors. Did you know that instagram AMVs were a thing? Because I sure as heck didn't until last year when one of the Chinese editors who had joined my Contest AMV Roulette told me about her Instagram AMV Editing Senpai. Did you know that Chinese editors were actually pretty numerous? Neither did I until literally an entire group that all even went to the same school joined one of my contests. One of the biggest discoveries in the last 15 years (as noted in the article) was the Russian community. Even when it's talked about now outside of the larger editing circles people seem to be shocked that the numbers are so large and not just limited to AMVNews.ru. Right this very second, there are 267 editors registered to edit for a 3 day online contest by a mostly French AMV studio called Souls Team. Bet you didn't know that was a thing either, did you?

And while yes, you could argue that the quality has gone down that is fully in your opinion. I personally don't understand the Instagram community. It hurts my brain to think about. But if you talk to the editors and viewers involved they are no different than the rest of the communities, they just edit in smaller chunks. Small form AMVs consisting of just snippets of songs are their own communities too. Same with editors who edit nothing but MEPs (Multi-Editor Projects) and have sometimes upwards of 20 sub-studios that they are involved in solely for the purpose of accomplishing these projects.

While A-M-V.org used to be a place that most called home back in the early 2000s if they were in to editing, that has vastly changed. There are new AMV editors making new videos every single day, but since they're not centralized you can't find them. Even at local conventions you run into these editors in large quantities! Nan Desu Kan isn't considered to be the behemoth that conventions like Anime Expo are but our Editor Meet & Greet has gone from a handful of people that fill up a large table at a crappy Mexican restaurant to a full on mini-event with upwards of 50+ people minimum. And if you talk to these people, you find out their stories. Many edited back in the day but dropped it for a while due to work or school, but then decided to get back into it after rediscovering it at their local convention or online. Some have literally been editing for years and just either posted in obscure places or simply didn't think they were good enough to be shared online. And then finally the majority just didn't know there was a place to go where they could chat with other editors and share their craft.

In regards to Troy's opinion regarding Comedy AMVs that is again, very, very limited to his own scope of AMVs and his time running Anime Expo's AMV Contest. I also personally know him and while I respect him and the work he did at AX, I do not agree with his opinion. Comedy videos are harder to find for contests, yes. But that is based on our qualifications of Comedy, the rules of AMV contests, and where we're looking for them. The Russians prefer sexual comedy. Jokes with bouncing boobs and profanity. The French create jokes that are incredibly complex but move by so quickly and require repeat viewings so they're not optimal for contests. The Americans rely on popular songs and already in-place humor (such as audio from Family Guy or joke based songs) so our audiences can actually get it. Those are 3 vastly different styles from different communities, nowhere near covering all of them because frankly, I don't have the time.
And while Comedy videos are a major draw at the majority of AMV Contests, that is not making or breaking the hobby. I really, really hate to toot my own horn but at our local convention NDK, Comedy is not king. We have fantastic comedy videos but the majority of the audience members we speak to mention the Category X (which is a special genre consisting of artistic videos that we have) or certain Drama, Upbeat, or Action videos as their favorites. Videos like Pencilhead by Qwaqa, Volleybot by Celia Phantomhive, Creating Something Beautiful by Siny, or Into The Labyrinth by lolligerjoj are what I hear talked about becoming "viral" among viewers. Videos that hit a certain chord for their audience and stick with them, regardless of the genre. And at our little contest, I can say that the majority of our "Audience Choice" awards have actually gone to non-Comedy entries. Not due to lack of quality, but because there are videos out there from other genres that manage to draw in the viewer better than perhaps some good time laughs. Lack of Comedy videos are not hurting the hobby as a whole but some AMV Contests, for sure.

For any AMV Contest Coordinator who is complaining about dwindling numbers or dying hobbies, I beg of you, reach out to the editors. Just talk to them. There are so many of us from all over the place. Most just don't know if there is a place where we can all call home and that we are wanted. Simply by asking and getting involved with us, you will find you have more support than you were ever aware of.
And for the casual fan, YouTube, AMVNews, A-M-V.org and now AMVCentral.net have some great ways to see some fantastic AMVs. Check them out and if you're ever looking for some advice, you're welcome to personally message me. I don't know it all but I know a lot of people.

And side note, anyone who makes jokes about Linkin Ball Z or just general Linkin Park videos is waaaay too out of it. I welcome those videos since you never see them anymore. But Fall Out Boy? Dear lord I hope people are done with it. If I have to hear Warriors, Phoenix or that Light 'Em Up song one more time I might stab myself Very Happy


EDIT: By the way, I know the conversation has been going for quite a while now (I see we're on Pg. 5 at this point) but this is really just in response to the main article. I haven't had the time to read through the threads. I've been busy working, editing, and running an online AMV Contest. Razz


Last edited by RadicalYue on Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Akamaru_Inu
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Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Location: Florida
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:33 am Reply with quote
I love AMVs so much, the contests are usually a highlight of cons for me (and I love using them to find new music) because I love the excitement of never knowing what's going to be shown next.

My problem is I'm too dang picky. Sturgeon's Law applies in full force. Not synced to the music? Garbage. Too many visual effects? Horrible. I don't like it when they use more than one series unless it's for a certain point, and it's tacky when they only use like 3-4 shows in one video. The music has to fit the anime and vice-versa. I rarely go searching for them too because my favorite series never get used in them.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:43 pm Reply with quote
RadicalYue wrote:
And side note, anyone who makes jokes about Linkin Ball Z or just general Linkin Park videos is waaaay too out of it. I welcome those videos since you never see them anymore. But Fall Out Boy? Dear lord I hope people are done with it. If I have to hear Warriors, Phoenix or that Light 'Em Up song one more time I might stab myself Very Happy


I call that the Pac-Man Principle, based on what TV Tropes refers to as "Pac-Man Fever," the phenomenon in which people who aren't into something will depict that something as the way it was when they last stumbled across it, or how the popular media depicts it, having unchanged in all the while. Its basis is the most clear stereotype of video games having not moved past the Atari 2600/NES phase, but I feel the idea of AMVs being dominated by Linkin Park is like that too. (I still do see them from time to time though. Linkin Park connects well with angsty teens, and like Death Note, will continue to appeal to this audience as long as they continue to exist.)
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RadicalYue



Joined: 24 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:54 pm Reply with quote
leafy sea dragon wrote:
RadicalYue wrote:
And side note, anyone who makes jokes about Linkin Ball Z or just general Linkin Park videos is waaaay too out of it. I welcome those videos since you never see them anymore. But Fall Out Boy? Dear lord I hope people are done with it. If I have to hear Warriors, Phoenix or that Light 'Em Up song one more time I might stab myself Very Happy


I call that the Pac-Man Principle, based on what TV Tropes refers to as "Pac-Man Fever," the phenomenon in which people who aren't into something will depict that something as the way it was when they last stumbled across it, or how the popular media depicts it, having unchanged in all the while. Its basis is the most clear stereotype of video games having not moved past the Atari 2600/NES phase, but I feel the idea of AMVs being dominated by Linkin Park is like that too. (I still do see them from time to time though. Linkin Park connects well with angsty teens, and like Death Note, will continue to appeal to this audience as long as they continue to exist.)


While I'd say there are different angsty artists that people use these days, I understand why it's a stereotype. That being said, it tends to be primarily used by those who are quite a bit older, almost in the realm of dad jokes. "Haha, he's so old. He doesn't get it anymore."
Even Death Note has greatly fallen out of style in AMVs for the most part with it's peak being around 2008/2009.

I get the idea behind it but I also think that after a while Pac-Man Fever style jokes eventually shift into obscurity too, as the original audience grows and newer viewers come into the fray. They don't always get it since it was well before their time and since a fair amount of the fans at cons right now are around 13-18, a rather large amount never listened to Linkin Park, have seen Dragon Ball Z (with the exception of Super memes) and are kind of familiar with Death Note as a "classic" anime.

It just always irks me to see these days since I've only ever seen it joked about by 35+ year old men at conventions to light laughter and confused looks by teenagers. Just feels out of date for the current generation and is a personal gripe. Razz Not actually angry or anything, just annoyed lol

Sorry, Yue is in srs mode right now. No fun allowed! >=(
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leafy sea dragon



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:24 pm Reply with quote
I would actually argue that certain outdated things continue to pop up in fiction and in the popular consciousness because the media keeps depicting it in that way. Zoos, for instance, continue to be depicted as places where animals stay in irregularly-shaped small cages with metal bars and concrete ceilings at ground level to this day, even though most zoos in the United States are no longer like that and have not been like that for decades. And the reason is because other works of fiction keep showing it like that and the people who show it like that have likely never been to a zoo or haven't gone for a long, long time.

Another example is pinball, which I feel occupies a similar niche as AMVs: There are thriving communities for it, but it's been invisible to the mainstream for a long time to the point they think it's dead, and it's hard to know these communities exist without having a friend introduce you to them or, like this topic, having fans come by and show them. What sort of sounds do you think of when you hear the word "pinball"? Those bells and chimes? Because those sounds haven't existed in pinball, except as intentional throwbacks, since 1978. Mata Hari is the last machine to not use digital audio. In other words, it has a stereotype made of elements discontinued before you or I were even born, and that's because it has been perpetuated through people seeing outdated portrayals and making or talking about their own outdated portrayals passed down through time.

I feel like those AMVs of Linkin Park songs, particularly those depicting Dragon Ball Z and Naruto, have become so infamous that people who know nothing else about AMVs and have no interest in them have stumbled across them and it became their first impression. And the old ones on YouTube and such are still there, and still available for people to stumble across. They also happen to be from the Pac-Man Principle era of anime. You know, how parodies and other various references to anime in western media seem to be predominantly DBZ, Sailor Moon, and Pokémon, and are still like that. So logically, they're the ones people not into AMVs or even anime are most likely to see (especially since the recent changes to YouTube's suggested videos algorithm now favors old videos with a lot of views over new content by new people).
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RadicalYue



Joined: 24 Feb 2017
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:35 pm Reply with quote
Hmm....This is true. I suppose it really comes down to my personal experiences shaping my opinion (which, ironically was the biggest issue I had with the primary article being so narrow in experiences) but I see your points.

I again, understand it, but I don't think it will never not bug me and be seen as a "In my day, we walked 15 miles in the snow!" type of joke. Which referring to it in that matter actually supports your argument, but doesn't make it irk me or the majority of AMV editors any less. lol

But to bring it back to the original topic at hand, have this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UChzKa2WsY
That is the AMV Contest reaction video recorded at my local convention. In that audience is 2,000 people that lined up well over an hour before the contest in an attempt to simply get a good seat. The reshow the next morning can get up to half of those numbers. We also host panels that fill to maximum capacity and have lines that form over 1 hour prior, regardless of the slot or what they are up against, not limited but including the cosplay contest. On average, we collect 250+ entries from all over the world for the contest and show hours of AMVs at the conventions both new and old.

Those experiences combined with my online ones are what lead me to raise an eyebrow at the "AMVs are dead." conversations.
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