Forum - View topicAnswerman - Is Subway Groping Really A Big Deal In Japan?
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Paiprince
 Posts: 593 |
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Exactly what I mean. It seems like society thinks sexual assault > slander and the possibility otherwise is virtually disregarded because feelings amounting to, "men are always the assaulters" and that the emotional trauma of women will ultimately be above all else, no ifs or buts. Women can and have played that card to their advantage. If that ain't a case of double standards, then I dunno what is. It's made worse in Japan since despite general culture there favors males, this is one of those instances that the females can fight back against the so called patriarchy, knowing full well that social ostracism is equivalent to a dead man walking there. |
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chronos02
Posts: 267 |
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This is indeed a big problem, and having visited Japan in 2004 when the chikan problem was being handled with full force, I was able to see a few cases as well as all the, at the time, innovations that came with it.
Now, the cause of all this, unfortunately, does not lie on the occasional pervert trying or getting to cop a feel, the main issue stems from Japan's societal structure and education. However... these social customs and structures are what make Japan what it is, as well as the main reason for it being one of the safest countries on this planet. This, however, comes at a price, some might say it's steep, some might say it's less than expected, but the fact is it exists as a result of keeping the country as it is, though it has changed quite a bit since the 90s. Organized crime is almost nill, Yakuza having sort of "honest" business's, though their main source and what keeps them alive is the fact they bought Japan's debt during the post WW2 era. They control the black market but at the same time keep tabs on it, and as they are also the proud saviors of their country, they act like it, preventing other smaller criminals from acting. Society in Japan values the group and homogeneity, and as the saying goes, the nail that sticks out must be hammered down, which makes everyone go for the "normal" path in their lives, having normal friends and doing normal activities. This, as good as it sounds (for many at least) kills individuality, and that's its objective, but it also causes another problem: those that are different, be it in tastes, personality, looks, etc. will be shunned, which in return makes them dislike their sorroundings, aggravating the situation, and among those that reform, some traces will be left that causes them to deviate from the "right" path, since they will probably not get accepted by others, and in the case of men, they might not be able to get a sentimental partner, which will lead them to commit crimes such as groping during public transportation trips. What I said there is just the tip of the iceberg, but it all sums up in a peaceful country in which the crimes comited are mainly shoplifting and concurrent perversion acts. It is indeed much safer than getting gutted, shot, having mercenaries enter your house to steal, run over by speeding dumbasses or attacked by a bunch of drug addicts, but being sexually assaulted is still a crime that, although it doesn't leave physical injuries, it does indeed leave psychological ones that are usually incurable (though those do come from being assaulted on the streets or whatnot). Despite that, I would certainly move to Japan if I was allowed to, no questions asked, it's still much better than most countries in the world (I would get scared of the occasional tsunami, hurricane and earthquake, but that's a "small" price to pay, prices which have shaped, too, the Japan that we know or seem to, at least). |
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jojothepunisher
 Posts: 799 |
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Now, I want to say that I do not condone these types of behavior, but I can't help but laugh when the column mentioned how serious of an issue this is in Japan and how some people go so far as to form an online club to promote "chikan". I mean that just takes it to the next level to the point of ridiculousness.
Last edited by jojothepunisher on Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Stuart Smith
 Posts: 1298 |
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Indeed. Despite this number, Japan is still one of the lowest rates of sexual assault. If this number frightens them, they may want to avoid looking up their own country's statistics. -Stuart Smith |
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Kikaioh
 Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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To my knowledge this isn't the issue in Japan, but actually the opposite --- women are the ones who become ostracized, police are largely uncooperative, and the undercurrent culture leans towards unspoken acceptance and a "blame-the-victim" mentality.
It seems there's a lot of sentiment that Japan greatly under-reports cases of sexual harassment and assault, due to a culture inclined to not disturb the harmony, as well as the police not wanting to help (and in some sense, preferring to keep the statistics low). Here's a link to some insider views that are a bit related, with some mention about the groping problems as well: https://www.quora.com/Why-are-the-rape-statistics-for-Japan-so-low |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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This is not really the battle to fight on. Japan as a society at large leans REAL heavily towards "don't cause waves" so ANYONE causing any kind of scene is going to automatically get negative response. The fact that anyone even COULD use this as a pretext to slander someone (in Japan) should give you an indication of how prevalent the issue is. This is a country where people don't call others out on urinating in public or OPENLY harassing others, because by and large people generally prefer to keep their heads down and be on their way. I have no doubt there are women who have falsely accused men of "chikan", but also I have no doubt that the number of those is infinitesimally small. If nothing else, I can almost guarantee you that Japan has a bigger issue of "xenophobic false accusations" (ie. 'the foreigner did it') then they do with males being ostracized/shamed over false groping allegations. |
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Hakajin
Posts: 46 |
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I was wondering if the Japanese mindset of not wanting to cause trouble might have something to do with why women don't speak up more. Thanks for confirming that! |
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Paiprince
Posts: 593 |
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If you think women are marginalized in Japan, then you'd have a field day how they are treated in the Middle East and Africa. The police in those places? Hah, forget about it. They also practice "corrective rape" and stoning because of adultery. Don't make it sound like Japan is hell on women, because it really isn't. Try not to put it up to the standards of Sweden where its police seem to care more about outsiders than their actual people...
Infinitesimally? Hardly. Passive aggressiveness knows no gender and women have used this tactic for ages. You don't need to cause a scene to destroy someone's good name. If one assumes said assault is underreported, then the same can be said for slander and libel. And while foreigners are treated at arms length at best, almost no case of "gaijin chikan" have been reported. The perps have almost always been a native issue. Because foreigners already know they're not on equal footing as ethnic Japanese. Why should they risk committing a crime that would drag their reputations lower than the Earth they're stepping on? |
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Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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What you're doing is called relative privation, which is a classic logical fallacy. You're trying to make a situation of unreported rapes, sexual assaults, public gropings, police indifference and cultural subservience in Japan sound like it's "okay" when contrasted against worse conditions in other countries. But just because things could be worse for Japan doesn't mean that the current situation is acceptable. It's not. |
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Paiprince
Posts: 593 |
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And you're expressing the typical judgmental-ism ethnocentrists from VICE and Japan Times often pull. Japan will never be like the West. It has its own sense of gender identity and roles it expresses that for the most part are benign. Your standards will never align with theirs. Even the women in general are fine with this. If you expect Japanese women to be assertive, "We can do it" style, then you're living in a dream world. Not like the US and Europe are the bastions for womenkind as they advertise themselves to be either. The wage gap, MGTOW, rap culture, Hollywood etc. all have a hand in undermining the women there. Japan is not perfect, but it's also not the misogynistic sex assault den you make it out to be either. That's what I'm trying to get at. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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How about you 2 cut this argument off now before it becomes a problem. Thanks.
So the fact that there are groups of men who get together to compare notes, stories, tips etc on getting away with groping a woman is funny and being upset over it is just silly to you? How charming. |
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Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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TBH, I don't necessarily agree with cutting off discussion before it becomes a problem (that's kind of policing a la Minority Report  ). But since you requested, I'll stop. It's understandably a touchy situation to evaluate the cultural underbelly of a country that produces content that people enjoy, but I sort of feel like open awareness of these issues is more important than my own personal attachment/identification with Japanese culture.
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BodaciousSpacePirate
 Subscriber Posts: 3017 |
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It's pronounced "Psycho Pass" here.
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Shaterri
Posts: 173 |
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I think there's a natural tendency to want to defend Japan; after all, we're all fairly heavily emotionally invested in at least some aspects of the culture - if we weren't, we wouldn't be here. It's a Cool(TM) place; it's suffused with history in a way I've never experienced anywhere else; I'm in awe of the emotional power of its sacred places; I'm constantly amazed and delighted by its creative expression, from anime to games and technology to music, be it May'n or Merzbow.
But it's also a country and a culture with some deep, fundamental social issues, and one of them is an inability to engage in any meaningful fashion with its problems. Japan doesn't need anyone else to defend it; it needs to start to recognize and acknowledge some of the cultural aspects that are serving to keep many aspects of society 'backwards' and that (IMHO) are starting to actively hold it back on the world stage, if it ever wants to be able to move beyond them and become as awesome a place as it likes to think it is. Last edited by Shaterri on Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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relyat08
 Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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Particularly fitting considering the Moderator in question.
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