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CrescentWolf



Joined: 03 Dec 2016
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Location: Florida
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:41 pm Reply with quote
That was actually fairly interesting, I didn't know about Japan's history with Incest. But I guess it makes sense with the whole Clan Dynasties and bloodlines thing.

A bit scary that it was such a problem that it affects the average Japanese person's DNA even today.
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TenCentFang



Joined: 28 Feb 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:45 pm Reply with quote
Incest between members of the same generation should never be persecuted unless they breed, which should be avoided as a matter of common sense as much as one of law.

The mother/son thing though...yuck/yikes double combo.
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whiskeyii



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:50 pm Reply with quote
I hadn't know about Japan's history of incest, but I thought I'd heard that centuries of incest (a la the Egyptians) actually breeds out the ensuing inbreeding issues. Or maybe that's just a load of bull.

Anyways, an insightful answer to a question that usually gets the "lol, because Japan" response, so kudos!
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:02 pm Reply with quote
I remember in one of my anthropology classes in college, the professor said that incest is something rarely practiced in most cultures with the exception of the ruling class, as over time the people discover a connection to in-breeding and health problems and ban incestuous relationships to minimize those problems. It's a pretty strange thought that the people of Japan never figured that out until people from other lands pointed it out to them.

I mean, it gets pretty obvious when you're breeding animals for purebred offspring, at least to me it does.
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angelmcazares
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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:03 pm Reply with quote
Wow. I had no idea that incest has been that prevalent in Japanese history.

CrescentWolf wrote:
That was actually fairly interesting, I didn't know about Japan's history with Incest. But I guess it makes sense with the whole Clan Dynasties and bloodlines thing.

Not trying to defend/justify Japan, but if I am not misremembering incest also occurred among members of European royalty.
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octopodpie
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Joined: 02 May 2011
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Location: Washington State
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:08 pm Reply with quote
CrescentWolf wrote:

Not trying to defend/justify Japan, but if I am not misremembering incest also occurred among members of European royalty.


Yep! That's why haemophilia got the nickname "the royal disease."
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:11 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
But incest is not illegal there, ...

Shocked Did not know that. But does explain a few things from the visual novels I've played...

Quote:
In more recent times, there have been reports that counselors in Japan have seen a lot of mothers who have been having sexual relationships with their teenaged sons. The reports were that the mothers were lonely housewives whose husbands were essentially always at work, and rationalized the relationship by saying they were keeping them clear-headed and focused on their studies rather than girls. If the household is one in which everyone sleeps in the same room, the father is always gone, and it's just the lonely mother and the hormonal teenaged son there most nights... well, oedipal complexes are a thing.

Shocked I've played... eroges.. where this comes up. But hearing that scenario come up in real life... Confused

Disclaimer; I don't mind incest in fiction, and actually I'd say it's one of my favorite genres. And I don't see anything wrong with incest when done between consensual adults, with the caveat that they know how to act responsibly.

Wish the fan translation of Yosuga no Sora visual novel wasn't in such a limbo Sad ...


Last edited by Blanchimont on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ultimatehaki



Joined: 27 Oct 2012
Posts: 446
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:11 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
Wow. I had no idea that incest has been that prevalent in Japanese history.

CrescentWolf wrote:
That was actually fairly interesting, I didn't know about Japan's history with Incest. But I guess it makes sense with the whole Clan Dynasties and bloodlines thing.

Not trying to defend/justify Japan, but if I am not misremembering incest also occurred among members of European royalty.


Indeed. To keep the bloodline "pure", incest in the royal bloodline for Britain centuries ago was expected and totally normal.(as was other royal bloodline like the article mentioned.)

It's a surprise to me that Japan had this insect history until only recently tho.
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Vannil



Joined: 14 Jun 2016
Posts: 185
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:11 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
Wow. I had no idea that incest has been that prevalent in Japanese history.

CrescentWolf wrote:
That was actually fairly interesting, I didn't know about Japan's history with Incest. But I guess it makes sense with the whole Clan Dynasties and bloodlines thing.

Not trying to defend/justify Japan, but if I am not misremembering incest also occurred among members of European royalty.

European royalty had incest down to an art
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Blood-
It...it's not like I post for you or anything!It...it's not like I post for you or anything!


Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:12 pm Reply with quote
Oddly enough, I started a thread about this topic in the General Anime Discussion forum recently:

animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3057873


First - and please anybody who knows different, feel free to jump in - but my assumption is that the incest trope is not nearly as prevalent in other forms of Japanese entertainment as they are in ones specifically aimed at otaku or porn viewers: anime, manga, eroge, light novels, etc. I don't think the trope crops up nearly as often in J-dramas, live action films, regular novels, etc. Again, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Therefore I don't believe the incest trope is so much a Japanese phenomenon as it is an otaku one. My completely unscientific theory as to why it has such a hold on the otaku world is that there are a lot of otaku guys out there who are terrified of the thought of dealing with a regular female. The exchange is just too fraught with social anxiety and discomfort. By the same token, watching an anime character have to deal with a regular female might aggravate these anxieties. However, if that anime character is dealing with a female that already knows him, looks up to him, respects him, then the otaku doesn't have to vicariously experience the awkwardness of watching a self-insert character go through the trauma of courting a regular female. I don't think it's any coincidence that most incest tropes in anime revolve around younger sister-older brother relationships. For an otaku, the built-in love and respect a younger sister would have (in the anime world, not real life) for an older brother is probably a more soothing scenario than watching a dude try to win over a regular female.


Last edited by Blood- on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Karl2



Joined: 16 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:12 pm Reply with quote
Oh, so that is why relatively harmless diseases are so deadly in fiction/real life there.
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Richmyster84



Joined: 19 Feb 2017
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:17 pm Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
I hadn't know about Japan's history of incest, but I thought I'd heard that centuries of incest (a la the Egyptians) actually breeds out the ensuing inbreeding issues. Or maybe that's just a load of bull.

Anyways, an insightful answer to a question that usually gets the "lol, because Japan" response, so kudos!


Definitely bull. Analysis of King Tut shows he suffered from a multitude of genetic defects.
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Princess_Irene



Joined: 16 Dec 2008
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Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:22 pm Reply with quote
I've often wondered if the fact that the creation gods Izanagi and Izanami were incestuous twins had something to do with it as well.
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Utsuro no Hako



Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 719
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:22 pm Reply with quote
TenCentFang wrote:
Incest between members of the same generation should never be persecuted unless they breed, which should be avoided as a matter of common sense as much as one of law.


Genetic problems aren't very likely unless there's been repeated inbreeding across multiple generations. In a small village that rarely gets new blood from outside, even second or third cousin marriages can be bad, but in a cosmopolitan society where people have diverse ancestries, it's unlikely to be a problem for even close relatives.

The problem with incest is consent, and even within the same generation that's going to be a problem. If we're talking two cousins of nearly the exact same age, sure, whatever floats their boat, but if one's even a couple years older than the other, it creates an imbalance in power.
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Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 2984
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:24 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
But incest is not illegal there, ...


Wow. I didn't know this. So sex between family members is allowed, but marriage isn't? Is that right?
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