Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Is Incest Such A Common Topic In Anime?
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MrTerrorist
Posts: 1348 |
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Well that explains a lot why i see it in anime, manga, hentai and japanese adult movies. I always thought the Japanese find incest kinky when actually it's something they practiced and considered "normal" during the olden times before outside influence especially after the post-war era made it seen unacceptable and disgusting.
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Blanchimont
 Posts: 3448 Location: Finland |
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For marriage yes. But the 'act' itself isn't illegal even between siblings... |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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They exist but is certainly less common. There was an anime web series about adopted siblings, while not definition incest it was certainly hitting the vibes even though it was trying to be a parody of the concept. |
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zrnzle500
 Posts: 3767 |
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The relationship that inspired the question (Lily from Hand Shakers and her brother) is of that variety. The only other I can think of in anime off the top of my head is Onee-chan ga Kita, though as with much incest anime, they are step siblings. I believe I'd seen an OVA or something as well with such a story (I forget the name) but overall it's fairly rare vis-a-vis older brother/younger-sister.
Presumably you mean siblings of their preferred gender. But yeah, I firmly believe that much of this sort of thing is targeted at people who don't have a sister (in the case of younger sister stuff). |
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relyat08
 Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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^There are actually a crap ton of hentai and doujin with the oneechan complex thing going on. Aki Sora is probably one of the more well known ones. That variety of the complex seems to overlap with the mother-son stuff a bit as well, where the big sister is more caring and maternal. Also lots of shota stuff in the same vein. Also, for what it's worth, I have a very large number of siblings of both genders and still enjoy the fictional depiction of incest now and then. It is however, very gross in real life.
I think one appeal of tsunderes might be that you can pretend that real women in your life, at school, work, etc, who treat you rudely actually like you. You can fantasize that all of them are actually secretly in love with you and are just lying to themselves. Last edited by relyat08 on Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13227 |
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Or people like me who has a Bitchy younger sister and would like to trade her in for a cuter one 
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CrownKlown
 Posts: 1762 |
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Since when is incest common? Compared to yaoi, yuri, loli/shota, which seem to have several shows every seasons, or at least a few characters hitting those demographics, an incestous relationship is seen maybe once ever 3 or 4 seasons, and usually played for laughs if its played straight its even less common. j
Also I tend to like Justin's articles, but I feel like in this one he kind of hand waves and throws around studies and facts on a pretty series topic, and makes pretty serious accusation without any real support. Incest to the degree of cousins is still practiced all around the world, and even first cousins are legal in more than half the us states. And the practices of incest with cousins/aunts/uncles even siblings was just as common to Europe, other parts of Asia, or even the Askenashi and probably in quite a few areas actually. So to make an article that paints the Japanese as some short genetically crippled ailing race that has practiced some deviant art unique to its nation is kind in bad taste and poor journalism. I am not saying incest does not have any effects whatsoever, but this article felt sensationalized to the extreme. |
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zrnzle500
Posts: 3767 |
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And I'll just add that, well, some people don't dislike the being rude to them part. One does not go to a tsundere maid cafe because one is hoping they actually like them. Last edited by zrnzle500 on Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13555 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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Cousin romance I see as being less of taboo thing than sibling romance. I am talking about blood-related and step-siblings whereas foster or adopted is on the fence. That's because cousin bloodlines are not as close and perhaps less prone to genetic disorders.
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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That true--though what I meant was that I thought even tribes in remote jungles or deserts or whatnot would eventually notice there are birth defects and other health problems among people who in-breed and ONLY among people who in-breed, and if they stop in-breeding, the problems fade away after some time, or at least diminish in severity. (I was using purebred animals as a modern-day example highly visible in the west.) It's the same wisdom that advises not to poop upstream from where you drink, or that chewing the bark of this tree can help your sore throats.
Whoa now, that's a bit drastic! Go ahead and call for change if you'd like, but until society is ready to accept it to any extent, you're not going to get much progress.
If children are conceived out of it though, I'd say it's a different matter entirely.
In a more direct sense, there's also the notion in North America of video games being entertainment for children that has only recently begun to fade away, even though there's been a ton of family-unfriendly video games and they're even marketed in that way, as can be seen with the iconic sitcom scene of the boys sitting in front of the TV playing video games--you rarely ever see anyone above college age doing it.
I had to chuckle at that idea. I never even thought about that before, that a tsundere character can be a projection of, "That girl who hates me might secretly like me!" (Even though this personality type is actually quite rare in reality.) |
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jdnation
Posts: 1998 |
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It's also power fantasy. The idea of having control and access to a younger girl in your house who trusts and is dependant on you with added vouyerism. The fetish caters to this crowd who likely have no sexual attraction to their actual siblings. It's role play in a way.
Technically, no. That's not why he was killed. The Deuteronomy Law was for the protection of widows and family inheritance. The widow was the sister in law, not a blood relative. If her husband died, in a heavy manual labor male dominated society, she could not earn a living, and a male heir was necessary for her to keep her deceased husband's property, legally as well as practically. So women would either get remarried to someone else, but that inheritance would go to some other family. And she or any daughters could lose it in this technical way. So instead a brother in law would have to give her a male heir as the legal inheritor who by blood inherits the original husband's property. He would be considered the deceased man's son legally. Of course sex outside of marriage is immoral, so she legally was to become the wife of the brother in law, who would also be entitled to look after her just as any other wife. Such polygamous laws were allowed for such instances. The times they were living in are not at all like the luxuries we enjoy today, especially for women who had no choice but to depend on men and family. And not all men could afford to marry and provide a dowry to the woman's parents who would require it because they would lose a daughter in a time where people needed all the help they could get, so dowries were compensation. Therefore only wealthier men could afford a wife, and often they had several out of necessity on both sides. Anyway... Onan had a duty to his sister in law, but as you might see, he had to take on an additional wife he had to look after, which perhaps he saw as a burden (though it looks like the sex wadn't), and if he gave her a male heir, then he wouldn't get any of his brother's inheritance. So Onan took her as his wife and had sexual relations with her, but pulled out before 'finishing.' God therefore killed him. But what should be specified is that according to the law, a brother who refused to do this duty was to be publicly shamed. It was not a death penalty. There was no law for this unique instance, so God specifically intervened. What God killed Onan for was for spilling his 'seed.' A sin termed Onanism, similar to masturbation and contraceptive use. A sin worthy of death like adultery, homosexuality and bestiality. But unlike those others which occur in limited circumstances, practically everyone is guilty of Onanism, and thus enforcing a legal death penalty for this is impractical. Also for the most part no one would usually know if you'd done it. But the circumstances of Onan were public knowledge involved in a legal dispute of not doing his duty as brother in law. Onan was probably trying to find a legal loophole. And thus due to the public nature of his sin, God killed him, and he didn't get off with just a public humiliation for dishonoring his sister in law. So Onan's case isn't about blood related incest. But about a publicly known offense against God. Thus sins like masturbation and contraceptive use are traditionally forbidden by the Catholic Apostolic Church which maintains this fact. So too logically are homosexuallity and beastiality, but there's more to the nature of those acts aside from the ends, but that's another story. The law against incest was introduced in Moses' time. But earlier it was allowed such as with Abraham and Sarah who were brother and sister. Also from the beginning of Creation, humanity descended from the children of Adam and Eve who were brothers and sisters, and also through Noah's sons and their wives after the Flood. Pope Pius XII infallibly condemned the notion of polygeneris which claimed there were other humans other than Adam and Eve and thus not all humanity descended from them. This dogma puts an end to racist theorizing that certain groups of people are lesser humans because they are not descended from some self proclaimed superior evolutionary genetic stock. Also these accepted incestuous relations in their time were only with regards to brother/sister/cousins. Never with parents/children. This was always presumed to be forbidden. The reason incest was condemned in Moses time had also to do with genetics. The original human beings could live very long. Originally they were immortal. But after the Fall and curse on mankind, environmental factors take their toll upon genetics after awhile, further pressured by the situation after the Flood, the genetic lines were then more severely limited. By Moses' time, possibly well before him too, the way to counter the accumulation of defects was to marry as far outside your bloodline as possible. This is in the hopes that the DNA of your partner hopefully doesn't suffer the same difficiencies that your bloodline has accumulated and thus natural selection favors the incorrupt genes and you have a healthier child. Thus the moral law against incest has a practical purpose. So too Onanism, and practices related to it such as contraception and homosexuality (ends being the same, but the practices being of different degrees) remain offensive to God. So for those arguing that incest is okay so long as no children are produced will still run afoul of the Biblical moral law. This is because the sexual act is created first and foremost for the creation of children and all else is subservient to these ends. And because all children are never accidents, but exist with purpose by the direct will of God, therefore to attempt to contravene this end is direct rebellion against God. It is also hypocritical on the part of one's own self who benefits from existence (even an existence that is in temporary sufferable conditions, where the end is inevitably to go to heaven eternally), to deny this to others. Likewise God punished in the same way Israel, who had been slaves in Egypt, for not releasing their slaves during the jubilee, by letting Babylon destroy them and take them in chains. So by the same standard this is a matter of 'social justice' to ones fellow potential human beings. So all in all, at one point, even according to JudeoChristianity, incest wasn't taboo. But was later forbidden for good reason. So it's not surprising that other cultures, such as Japan, themselves descendants of the same original human pair, would have maintained this practice in history, and still being a nation where Christianity isn't widespread, still engages in it. Though this is not just limited to them, for even as the western world grows de-Christianized in our times, many things sinful are now commonly practiced as no big deal, and it's no surprise that you'll also find people arguing in favor for incest, pedophilia and beastiality, which they'll attempt to allieviate with appeals to restrictions of non procreation, "consent", non penetration etc. Just like Onan, trying to find suitable loopholes to make the practice acceptable under certain circumstances. So the point being, western people have no right to point fingers at the Japanese as if this is merely some phenomena that is only limited to them. We have our own problems. |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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Other people have brought up the Bible, and I really want to point out that cousins, even first cousins, are not considered incestuous Biblically throughout the Old Testament. I'm actually not sure where the idea that cousins can't marry started in Christian based countries. As far as I know, it has never been considered an issue or illegal in Islamic countries, and there's only one modern Jewish country (Israel) and, again, as far as I know, marriage between cousins is legal there, too. Someone else upthread mentioned that at one point the Catholic Church was forbidding marriages for 6th cousins, and I'd be curious to learn what the basis for that was. When detailing the laws against forbidden sexual relationships in Leviticus and Deutoronomy, The Bible includes relationships that are not blood related, but still forbidden, such as marrying one's ex-wife's sister (if and only if the ex-wife/former wife is still alive), and other various in-law and step relationships. It's interesting to note that the obligation of Yibbum, marrying one's dead brother's widow (as in the story of Onan posted above) was a very specific exception to these rules that only applied if the brother had no children, for example (even if the widow herself was childless, if her husband had children from a different relationship, Yibbum was not obligated). Yibbum also had a way out--if either party objected to the marriage, they would perform a ceremony called Halitza to absolve the obligation. |
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SWAnimefan
Posts: 634 |
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I seriously hope you're joking. There are over 7 Billion people on this planet, you don't need to have sex with your own family!
It's a fallacy to dismiss this solely because of fiction. It influences real thought. Just look at the recent Death Note incidences with children, its fiction they thought it was okay to mimic in the real world. So the argument is very much valid. |
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Blanchimont
Posts: 3448 Location: Finland |
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So seeing someone commit murder on TV influences you to go out and act likewise? What about war crimes, drug use or the other nasty things often seen in works? THAT is your thought? Please stay away from fiction, for everyone's sake... And while children may be easily infuenced, they have no part in consensual incest. Likewise violent media is usually restricted from children. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
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I'm pretty sure virtually everyone in this thread was talking about incest as a trope where it is present in a show as a topic even if two characters aren't actually engaging in it. For example, this season there is a brother and sister in Hand Shakers. The older sister is a major brocon and that is an important element of their arc. She is clearly in romantic love with him (he doesn't feel the same way about her, but they are close). So while they aren't having sex, the topic of incest is clearly there. Similarly, and also from this season, there is an arc from One Room where the female interest is the imouto of the (never seen) male protagonist. Again, the two never have sex or even have an improper relationship, but the whole arc is drenched in the idea that the viewer should be enjoying the incestous possiblity overtone. Hell, the fact that the terms siscon and brocon even exist speaks volumes for the prevalence of the incest trope. |
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