Forum - View topicGhost in the Shell. Overexposed/Overrated?
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next |
| Author | Message | ||
|---|---|---|---|
Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
|
||
If you are referring to the original film being abrupt and somewhat open-ended, I admit that my initial viewing would have been marred had I lacked immediate access to the sequel. Innocence can be seen as an extended epilogue of sorts, and having placed it in such a perspective I found its closure amply satisfying. Of course, if you are complaining about the emotionless delivery, as indeed I think you are, then I have no means to gainsay. This franchise's irony is that it dwells on the affective realm without taking much recourse to conveying it in a traditional way. I consider this a merit; by making the Major and Batou so phlegmatic, their tiny lapses from stolidness during their interactions come to bear all the more significance. |
|||
|
|||
Vaisaga
 Posts: 13227 |
|
||
|
I was actually talking about how short it is.
Regarding the dialogue, this is one franchise where I absolutely have to watch it dubbed. There's just so much nonsensical techno jargon and navel gazing delivered in a dry and flat manner that it's hard to keep up with the subs. Gotta remove that reading element entirely. |
|||
|
|||
|
Arkthelad
Posts: 108 |
|
||
I think in this sense (and others) GitS is very similar to Blade Runner. They've become iconic in "nerd culture" because of the context they were released in, but in both cases their perceived originality has become confused with their quality as films. |
|||
|
|||
|
Vaisaga
Posts: 13227 |
|
||
|
I've never seen Blade Runner. There's like 50 different versions of it and I don't know which is the one I'm supposed to watch.
|
|||
|
|||
Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23769 |
|
||
|
Yeah, I would consider Blade Runner another example of over-ratedness. However, it undeniably has wonderful world-building. Oshii clearly saw it a couple of times before directing GitS. The other thing about Blade Runner is that it was pretty ballsy in the handling of Harrison Ford's character. You'd expect a character like that to be heroic, but no matter which version you watch, he was pretty ineffective.
|
|||
|
|||
|
Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18188 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
||
|
I'd argue that it's hard to over-rate Blade Runner. It would make any short list of the most visionary films ever made, in large part because nothing in sci fi looked like that before it came along. I saw it again in theaters during its 25th anniversary rerelease and was astonished by how well it held up visually even with the advances in technology and special effects over that time. And it's really only become a critical darling over time, as initial reviews for it were somewhat tepid.
Anyway, for the live-action GitS I'd expect a review of it to be posted sometime on Friday, as I know Zac went to one of the Thursday night showings (as I did). I'll reserved more detailed commentary for that response thread, but overall I thought it was a reasonable adaptation which used a fair amount of the first movie (and a little bit of Stand Alone Complex) in telling a largely different story. It didn't emphasize the Major's capabilities as a hacker as much as I'd like but there were some juicy bones in it for dedicated franchise fans. And it was definitely a more personable Major. |
|||
|
|||
|
Arkthelad
Posts: 108 |
|
||
That's the whole point though. Originality gets conflated with overall quality. Both GitS and BR look great and were clearly seen as hugely original for their time. In both cases however, neither has a very dramatically engaging plot IMO and I think that should count for something. |
|||
|
|||
|
Key
Moderator
Posts: 18188 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
||
|
^
See, I'd disagree with the "plot wasn't dramatically engaging" complaint on both of them. I found them both to be fascinating on about every level. |
|||
|
|||
|
Vaisaga
Posts: 13227 |
|
||
|
By both do you mean Innocence too? That entire movie was just Bato and Togusa quoting philosophy text books at each other. Can't get more pretentious than that.
The SAC PS2 game is actually pretty good. I'd recommend it to a fan of the franchise. |
|||
|
|||
Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
|
||
|
I do not consider the original GitS to be overrated, which is a concept that puzzles me. The fact that some others have a much more positive opinion than you do does not make it overrated.
I also consider the original Ghost in the Shell and Blade Runner to be dramatically engaging and fascinating. They both gave me the sense of awe and wonder that makes me love science fiction. But like most things that we discuss here it is subjective, just a matter of personal taste and preference. |
|||
|
|||
|
Key
Moderator
Posts: 18188 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
||
Oh, absolutely not. I 100% agree with your characterization of Innocence and can't stand to watch it again because of that. |
|||
|
|||
|
Vaisaga
Posts: 13227 |
|
||
|
So you meant GitS and Blade Runner, then.
I actually do prefer Innocence to the original, if only because Bato and Togusa are characters I actually like. |
|||
|
|||
|
Touma
Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
|
||
|
This thread, along with some other similar discussions, has inspired me to watch the original movie again.
Actually I will be watching GitS2.0 on Blu-ray, and I am going to start right now. |
|||
|
|||
|
Arkthelad
Posts: 108 |
|
||
I don't remember the details of Blade Runner's plot that well, but in the case of Ghost in the Shell I think there's a pretty strong argument that it's written in a way that undermines the dramatic potential it could have. The main issue is that the main characters are cyborgs who can be put back together again if they're hurt and in the case of Major don't seem to experience much emotion. As I already mentioned Oshii's Skycrawlers has the same issue but in that film he compensated for it by also having more "human" characters alongside the less human characters. In GitS it's not compensated for. Why should I feel anything when Major is getting ripped to shreds by the spider tank thing when she doesn't care herself and nor does anyone else? Why should I care about that final battle at all? Is there anything really at stake? |
|||
|
|||
|
Boomer
|
|
||
|
No, no and definitely no. If anything, I think the original movies don't get their due and are ragged on by critics who do not appreciate atmosphere or visual artistry. Or they get a headache from anything that contains philosophical depth or intellectual stimulation. Personally, I think the GITS movies are unparalleled works of works art in any medium, anime or live action.
I was never bored by the philosophical discussions in the original, or even Innocence, because they fit with the overall theme of the stories and provided insight into the thought processes and feelings of the main characters. The philosophical points raised by the Major, Batou and Togusa were never confusing or distracting to me. In other words, I "got it". Furthermore, the soundtrack and visual style of each movie helped to emphasize the awe-inspiring existential dread at the heart of the stories. Whoever says that the characters lack depth does not know what they're talking about. Those who dislike the GITS movies because they are "slow", "boring" or "too philosophical" will likely be satisfied with the regurgitated hairball that is the current live-action remake. Judging from the reviews written by fans of the original, the Americanized version with ScarJo is exactly the monumental abortion that I predicted it would be. Of course, I am not going to watch this bastardized abomination as a matter of principle. I feel the same pain Ghostbusters fans did when that remake came out: something that I treasure deeply has been horribly desecrated, and it is my most passionate desire to wish it out of existence. |
|||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group