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REVIEW: Kemono Friends


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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23762
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:53 am Reply with quote
TheOtakuX wrote:
The thing about the animation is, after an episode or two, you don't even notice it anymore. Once you get into the show you can't really tell the CGI sucks unless you're trying to see it suck.


In two pithy sentences, you have managed to sum up what I've been trying to say in my eleventy billion posts on the topic. I envy your efficiency!
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:46 am Reply with quote
Personally, I think south parks visuals are bad because they made a conscious decision not to improve them after the pilot succeeded. If you look at similar American animated comedies, the first season always looks terrible unless they made an advance decision to put a big budget behind it.

Go back and look at pilot episodes and first season of The Simpsons and Family Guy. They look nothing like the current shows. In fact, they look so bad by comparison that they are almost offensive to the eyes. If episodes from season 1 of Simpsons or Family Guy come on TV I'm likely to change the channel.

Contrast with Father of the Pride which NBC spent a lot of money on but didn't survive past one season after the S&R mauling incident.

I think South Park started on a shoestring budget like Simpsons and Family Guy, but after it succeeded, they just decided to stay low budget. It probably means the show is very profitable, and the audience has decided to give them a pass.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:08 am Reply with quote
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
I think South Park started on a shoestring budget like Simpsons and Family Guy, but after it succeeded, they just decided to stay low budget. It probably means the show is very profitable, and the audience has decided to give them a pass.


Exactamundo. They know the audience wasn't tuning in for the vizzies, so why spend more? Plus, as somebody else mentioned earlier, their quick turnaround time - which is only possible because of the low production values - allows them to add in super current material since they don't have a 6 month pipeline to contend with.

Have you checked out Troll Hunters yet, CK? I've only seen the first episode so far, but really liked it. No low production values there!
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samuelp
Industry Insider


Joined: 25 Nov 2007
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Location: San Antonio, USA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:24 am Reply with quote
It should be noted that Kemono Friends is not the first series to be a success with "crappy CG" animation in Japan (although it's by far the first to get THIS scale of fame)...

A trail was blazed earlier by gdgd fairies, which got popular enough to even get a theatrical movie despite being on a budget that probably made even Kemono Friends' budget look huge.

But gdgd fairies got popular because of the strength of its humor and random adlib segments, while Kemono Friends' popularity comes from the sincerity of the writing and the excellent character designs. In a twitter-world when retweeting a single photo/screen shot is what matters, who cares if the movement is terrible as long as a freeze-frame looks good, right?
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3446
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:26 am Reply with quote
darkchibi07 wrote:
It's a real shame there's no telling how many units the discs sold.

They are issuing reprints of the first guidebooks at least. I also expect a disc stand-alone release later down the line. They would be crazy not to..
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:16 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
I think South Park started on a shoestring budget like Simpsons and Family Guy, but after it succeeded, they just decided to stay low budget. It probably means the show is very profitable, and the audience has decided to give them a pass.


Exactamundo. They know the audience wasn't tuning in for the vizzies, so why spend more? Plus, as somebody else mentioned earlier, their quick turnaround time - which is only possible because of the low production values - allows them to add in super current material since they don't have a 6 month pipeline to contend with.

Have you checked out Troll Hunters yet, CK? I've only seen the first episode so far, but really liked it. No low production values there!


I have not yet seen Trollhunters, though I should. Looks interesting. Most of my viewing of American (non-comedy) animation lately has been mostly Disney and Nick... i.e. Star vs Forces of Evil, Gravity Falls, Miraculous, and of course Steven Universe.
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omegafinal



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 125
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:19 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
omegafinal wrote:
Also on the South Park thing from earlier. Don't think it's a fair comparison, given that South Park's look is intentional due to its cardboard roots (and is pretty much its identity), while Kemono Friends' is most likely due to resource constraints (either time, money, or people).


Cool, another person who doesn't understand my ultra-simple point. Guess I'll explain it again in the hopes somebody with some reading comprehension might see it. People don't care what South Park looks like because it's funny. It doesn't matter that its crappy visuals are intentional. Hey, I'll repeat that: it doesn't matter that its visuals are crappy because the show is funny. So people don't care what it looks like. Get it? People. Don't. Care. What. It. Looks. Like. Maybe I'll repeat it again.

People.
Don't.
Care.
What.
It.
Looks.
Like.

Get that? There is a show out there that is popular even with crappy visuals. Gee, it's almost like the content of the show is sometimes more important than the visuals. Gee, I wonder if there might be a parallel to Kemono Friends?

Now, Kemono Friends crappy visuals are not intentional. They are almost certainly due to its 5 cent budget. However, the show was warmly humorous and had a bit of a mystery surrounding it and it became wildly popular because a lot of fans didn't care what the show looks like. It's almost as if a show delivers on its content, sometimes people don't care what it looks like. Like South Park.

Wow, I wonder if this actually got through or is some genius gonna come by and say, "but, erm, actually South Park intentionally looks like crude paper cut-outs..."


I'll start this by at least saying that I like Kemono Friends, which is something that looks like got lost in the mix. And my criticisms are from a place of wanting the series to get better, especially in the mostly commented visual aspect. Like I've already pointed out how it could've been worse, how could it get better? Refining the models a draft or two, and better inking for their toon/cel shader. (if the teaser pic they've released sometime around the finale, that's a good direction.) I understand that do you find it charming, and that's cool. I just find it simply meh/okay. Though interestingly, I like the character designs in the show more than its original phone game designs. We can only agree to disagree or something, even though we're fans of the series.

For a later post, one of the things I want to say ultimately, at least in this discussion, is a show's visual identity. Kemono Friends as well. Would it still work if it looks like a tough shonen show for example? We could look past the visuals if the story and characters can hold it up, but then the next question is going to be how far can it go?

DuskyPredator wrote:
Hand Shakers has set itself up to be a huge atrocity of animation, and it is in spite of clearly a lot of detail and models that look like they have had a lot of work put into it. The two pieces of CGI and 2D did not marry together, the animation is distracting, and it feels like enjoyable story writing in general was a sunk cost that they thought they could get away with or was not really well thought through. It is my opinion that the simple animation of Kemono Friends keeps it from being generally distracting, and although bad by standards it actually stays pretty consistent, mitigating some problems.

Yes, and that is why I thought the Kemono Friends crew was smart to go the simplicity route, and that they cut the right corners that fits within their budget and resources. Come to think of it, the limited cast per episode (or maybe scenes) also helped out, not sure how I can explain it (PPP and final episode aside). Hand Shakers is pretty looking...in still images (though they got other problems.).
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:39 pm Reply with quote
@ omegafinal - I'm glad you like Kemono Friends. My exasperation was directed at the fact that you cited the fact that South Park's visual crudeness was intentional when I had already said earlier that whether the look was intentional or not was besides the point.

As for how to improve the look of Kemono Friends ... I'm very much of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" line of thinking. My fear is, having come to quite like the look of KF, that any changes may improve the technical merits of the production values, but at the cost of taking away a feeling I have come to appreciate. KF clearly succeeded like gangbusters ... don't mess with a good thing would be my thought.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11340
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:25 pm Reply with quote
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
Go back and look at pilot episodes and first season of The Simpsons and Family Guy. They look nothing like the current shows. In fact, they look so bad by comparison that they are almost offensive to the eyes.

No kidding. This is how the Simpsons looked when they debuted (30 years ago!) on the Tracey Ullman show:

Ghastly, huh. Very Happy
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:35 pm Reply with quote
What are you talking about??? THAT version of Marge is SMOKIN' HOT!!!
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Valhern



Joined: 19 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:51 pm Reply with quote
Flat and amateurish composition aside (well, not really aside, it was very much awful), I actually prefer super early Simpson's designs that at least convey a minimum of personality (although not as polished as it will be eventually) without moving at all compared to nowadays' animation style that is just lifeless, thoroughly boring and univenting. Even relatively well-scripted episodes they are horribly directed.

That's why I say South Park's visual direction is unique to it and it's totally a strenght, not a shortcut (in work time, might be compared to things such as Rick and Morty or Gravity Falls). This is from the perspective of a creator, though, it's not wrong to interpret (as audience) that it's not really that important, depends on how you see it.

Which is basically what this discussion boils down to; about finding a balance in what the creative team wanted to convey and what I thought of it in their execution. Usually the latter part is what's prioritized which is mostly why we clash.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:19 pm Reply with quote
And I do think at a point that most of us would have no idea on how to improve the animation, that KF might have its own visual identity that resonates at some level that one would have to be really careful about changing it. Like falling into the lines that what producer for an animation would allow a cartoon that has yellow skin and only four digits, or how ever South Park is described, as a visual choice, the things that became staples. Good writing was likely always an aspect, but sometimes you have no idea while something can work.

I have done some google image searches and I actually find it kind of funny when KF has the characters in a totally different style, I don't think it would have been the same with them.
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:23 pm Reply with quote
^I agree completely, the animated KF has a distinct style (many of the girls looking like they are always in a near-crouch as if pounce for one) that would suffer if "done right". I found the minimally animated and over-pantomimed movements and expressions charming. They should fix that huge continuity problem between Ep10 and 11 and keep lookout for (fix) object boundary violations and everything will be fine in my book.
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omegafinal



Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 125
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:58 am Reply with quote
@Blood-
Ah. That was suppose to be more a general "chipping in my two-cents" response and not a direct response. Though the talk of the two series would've opened up some higher level discussion that we can only speculate. Or maybe bring in another anime series that succeeded in similar situations. But that's maybe for another topic.

--

Also I think Valhern and DuskyPredator has put something into words that I wished I could've said. Especially from the aspect of visual identity.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11340
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:24 am Reply with quote
I find it absolutely hilarious that Grand Theft Auto V has fan-made Kemono Friends modules. They did a pretty good job with the Japari bus, but this one is downright horrifying (no idea wth is going on with her hands, but that's the least of her problems Shocked). All I can say is anyone who watches it will never complain about KF's animation again. o.o
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