Forum - View topicAnswerman - Who Are Subtitles Written For?
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2402 |
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So who was "Emnetwihts" written for?
The article only really talks about translating potential unknowns into knowns versus leaving them (possibly with a tl note). What about translating something that would have been a known to the original audience into something unknown for the Western audience? I completely get both sides of the divide between wanting/needing subs written for a broader audience and wanting subs to be as literal as possible, and honestly, I don't even think I can take a side there. I just absolutely do not understand why you would ever intentionally take a word that was suppose to be immediately understood and subtitle it with some obscure and made up word. |
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SheRrIs
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What I simply cannot stand is when translators try to dumb it down for the audience, but change the meaning of the original in the process. As an example, Gugure! Kokkuri-san had Crunchyroll translate chuunibyou as 'delusional'. On your next opportunity, please translate 'sushi' as 'raw fish on rice', Crunchy <sarcasm>.
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2245 |
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Something similar happened to my sister when she watched Princess Mononoke dubbed when her roommate stopped by. The roommate's boyfriend was super religious and was immensely turned off by the inclusion of "demons" in the narrative, and my sister had a hard time convincing him, "No, not that kind of demon". |
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EricJ2
 Posts: 4016 |
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A nice way of, as Wiki says, "Disambiguizing" the main question (about honorifics, untranslatables, easy words, etc.) But have to admit, I read the header and thought "Ohhh-hhhh....Okay, who's the kid who didn't grow up in MY world of the early 90's? Who gets to be told what an Animag used to be?  "
Our generation had to watch half our shows raw, and it was easy to pick up the most common words--baka, yatta, oishii, etc.--but still not actually be able to conjugate verbs or sentence structure. A dialogue-heavy shoujo romance, or reliance on bad cultural puns?...Forget it. Some words are just unique to local culture--How many different attempts to "localize" itadakimasu or itterasshai have we heard to try and put it into Western context ("Let's eat!" "Be back soon!"), when they're not even Western rituals to begin with? But if a French character slips a "Bonjour" into his English dialogue in an English or French movie, we don't require translation. Something that's particularly annoying on movie/TV DVD subtitles is when some lazy subtitlers insist on not translating anything foreign: A character saying "That certain je ne sais quoi" might be subtitled as "That certain (speaks French)"...C'mon, we know what it IS, sheesh! |
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MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5315 |
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Sometimes it happens in dubs, Ouran Highschool Host Clubs dub has terms like Sempai and Chan.
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CatSword
 Posts: 1489 |
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There are a number of dubs which retain the honorifics: Ai Yori Aoshi, FLCL, Lucky Star, Kids on the Slope, etc. I've heard Planetes uses "senpai" but not honorifics, which seems odd to me. FLCL is particularly unique in that it retained all the honorifics yet translated the cultural references. (Cherio to Crystal Pepsi, Delabe to Hustler, etc.) |
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John Thacker
Posts: 1006 |
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Thanks, Justin, for making the absolutely fundamental point: There is no one correct translation, and all translation depends on the target audience.
Is this in reference to the previous comment from Tylerr who insisted that attack names should never be translated? After all, attack names are often something that can be immediately understood in Japanese (even if not necessarily normal phrases), and leaving them in Japanese results in something obscure and made up, but cool sounding. I agree with your point in perhaps most cases, but I still will prefer Amakakeru Ryū no Hirameki to "Flash of the Heaven Soaring Dragon," etc. What can be even trickier are terms in Japanese that are supposed to be only moderately difficult to know or obscure in Japanese, but known by some of the audience. You have to have a good handle on the target audience to find a matching translation. Something that's obscure in Japanese as well can be easier. In KADO this season, 異方 is as difficult in Japanese as its literal translation anisotropic is in English, so there's no problem.
Eh, any translation of a culturally linked concept like 中二病 is going to change the meaning of the original. Delusional is indeed part of what is implied by it. There's no way to translate it briefly without changing it unless your audience has enough context and previous knowledge as to understand the word untranslated. It's like complaining that "senioritis" got translated into other languages as simply "unmotivated." |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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If a person is willing to watch an anime with subtitles then they should be expected to know enough about Japan to be able to cope with literal translations and honorifics and the like.
If they are watching anime dubbed then to play it safe the translation should be as naturally sounding as possible. |
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Nagsura
Posts: 64 |
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Loved the comment about taking "a semester of elective Japanese". Reminds me all of those people who go on to complain about subs while saying "I know some Japanese" as if that along could actually let them understand what's going on just because they recognize one of several diferent things. Or when they complain while adding "I'm fluent in Japanese" yet require subtitles to watch anything at all.
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Top Gun
 Posts: 4570 |
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I was about to comment that we just had this same discussion in a column from a few weeks ago, but this is a unique take on the topic. I'm not sure I 100% agree with Justin's take on modern viewers being more willing to look up untranslated elements, or that it's a particularly good viewing experience in and of itself, but it's certainly something to think about.
I can't really agree with that. If the attack is just a basic descriptive phrase that a Japanese viewer would comprehend without even having to think about it, I think that pretty much begs to receive a direct translation. If the attack is a proper noun or some sort of outside reference, then there's more room to leave things as-is, with maybe some sort of supplemental end-notes explaining things. Leaving everything in Japanese regardless of meaning can turn certain lines into a complete alphabet soup: for instance, as much as I enjoyed Rurouni Kenshin's dub, I never even attempted to remember most of its multi-syllabic attacks. (From the outtakes, the dub cast had more than their fair share of troubles too.) Personally I enjoy what FUNi has done with One Piece: all of the "gomu gomus" and other simplistic Devil Fruit attacks get translated into their English equivalents, while the odd element like "onigiri" is left as-is (because let's face it, "rice ball" is about the least intimidating attack ever). And then there are things like most of Sanji and Robin's attacks, which use various French and Spanish terms: since those are meant to sound foreign to the original Japanese audience, leaving them as-is creates the same effect for English-speaking viewers. (Hell, given the much greater linguistic familiarity, an English-speaking viewer would probably have more comprehension of them by default.) |
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AksaraKishou
Posts: 1410 Location: End of the World |
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That's how i learned Spanish tho... 
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2402 |
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No. It is in reference to an official simulcast sub. Attack names are whatever, but it doesn't fit my description. If you don't translate the attack names, they will still be in Japanese so the Japanese audience will get it, but an English speaking one likely won't. On the other hand, if you actually translated the attack name like your Kenshin example, the English speaking audience is going to recognize that. Do you know what an Emnetwiht is? Is it a weapon? It is a vehicle? Is it a place? That is actually the English 'translation'. It isn't even an actual word, and hardly anyone is going to get the roots that were used to make up that word. Any Japanese person is going to immediately know what 人間族 is though. What is the justification for taking a Japanese word that the Japanese audience is going to understand, and changing it to something the English audience isn't going to have a clue with for the English subs. |
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Mr. Oshawott
 Posts: 6773 |
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Interestingly, in the case of Ai Yori Aoshi, Miyabi addresses Kaoru and Aoi by using "Sir" and "Lady" in place of san/chan, if I correctly recall... |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11340 |
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Wait, so "Justus" in the question was supposed to be "jutsu"?
 I spent the first third of the article wondering who the hell Justus was in Naruto, and why the questioner wanted a name translated.
Wow, that's pretty elitist. Where do you think the hard core fans come from? Most of them started out as "casuals" until something clicked and made them want to dig deeper. When newcomers are unwelcome because they're not "true" fans yet, that's a death sentence for your fandom, because most people are not going to do their homework alone in silence until they feel they're up to speed enough to satisfy fans with your attitude. When you chase off the casuals with your contempt, you've cut off the easiest, most effective way to teach them that anime isn't weird and depraved (not all of it anyway).
I don't believe that's generally true, except for maybe circumstances sometimes not giving them a choice. I think most professional translators take pride in their work just as professionals in any other field. Why wouldn't they? Unlike fansubbers, their livelihood depends on their reputation in the industry. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18182 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Then how should it be transliterated into Romaji, then? I was under the impression that the weird word was being used because that's what it sounds like in the Japanese dialog. |
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