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Answerman - Why Aren't New Dubs Made For Old-School Shows?


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CatSword



Joined: 01 Jul 2014
Posts: 594
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:05 pm Reply with quote
I would love it if someone found the music/effects track for Gunbuster in a storage closet somewhere and a dub could finally be made.
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DmonHiro



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 3052
Location: Romania, Bucharest
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:09 pm Reply with quote
I'm going to go with "Because it wouldn't make much/any money." as my final answer, Alex.
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JoeOfTomorrow



Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 61
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:16 pm Reply with quote
This is what I've always hated about the anime industry, in the pre-digital age companies did not take good care of their anime save a show or 2. Once it's recorded into film, they just toss it in a vault and leave it to decay for years and it then it needs fixing. I don't understand how Dragon Ball was preserved better than Dragon Ball Z and it's not even out on blu-ray yet! The colors are more vibrant and the footage is more stable. DBZ and DBZ Kai on the other hand suffered from decay.

Now that I understand how audio is affected with time, I'll just kiss any chance of a Saber Rider redub goodbye. I guess we were just lucky to have been able to get Macross redubbed before it became unsalvageable.
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mgosdin



Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 1135
Location: Kissimmee, Florida, USA
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:22 pm Reply with quote
In my closet there are three reels of audio tape from the much loved / hated Radio Shack that are from 1978. Two of them play just fine on my Teac RTR recorder, the other has the "Sticky Shed Syndrome" and squeals from both the reel AND the speakers. All were the same type of tape stored in very good conditions, but one of them died.

I can't imagine what could happen to the soundtracks from an Anime where the tape was just stored away under who knows what kind of conditions.

Mark Gosdin
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DmonHiro



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 3052
Location: Romania, Bucharest
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:24 pm Reply with quote
JoeOfTomorrow wrote:
This is what I've always hated about the anime industry

Sadly the rest of the world didn't do much better. Most infamous example is how BBC deleted tapes of old Doctor Who episodes because they though they'd never need them again.
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Shay Guy



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 740
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:31 pm Reply with quote
Nadia and Tylor got dubs a decade after the fact, didn't they? And cult classics though they may be, I don't think either is exactly Escaflowne-tier.

ADV's dub of the then-23-year-old SDF Macross probably made more financial sense.
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Lord Geo



Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1398
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:41 pm Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
JoeOfTomorrow wrote:
This is what I've always hated about the anime industry

Sadly the rest of the world didn't do much better. Most infamous example is how BBC deleted tapes of old Doctor Who episodes because they though they'd never need them again.


Or the multitude of film vault fires that have happened in history, either due to the fact that film used to be made with nitrate (which can ignite on its own rather easily) or the simple fact that studios back then simply didn't consider the idea that their films would become valuable & reusable, so they'd just stuff them into places that were just asking for trouble should an accident happen.

Really, Japan is far from the only country to not take good care of their film materials. This was standard fare back in the day, and only within the past 30-40 years have we truly realized how much we've lost due to those old standards.
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JoeOfTomorrow



Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 61
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:43 pm Reply with quote
You know, if I really tried, I could make a redub of some shows like Maison Ikkoku on Sony Vegas Pro. Basically anything that's light on action and adventure like romcoms. The soundtrack is easily accessible online and I was even able to find songs used in cafe scenes that I think most people would disregard as just being no more than background noise when they are actual songs.

All I need really are footsteps of walking or running and those are sprinkled everywhere. Dramatic effect sounds commonly used in 80's anime can be taken in any single scene and placed everywhere else necessary and a good microphone.
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Dr.N0



Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:51 pm Reply with quote
JoeOfTomorrow wrote:
You know, if I really tried, I could make a redub of some shows like Maison Ikkoku on Sony Vegas Pro.
Then do it, and do not forget to log your hours. When you are done, we will see how cheap it would have been with a decent salary.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:51 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Without a useful M&E track, any dub production would require coming up with an all-new audio track, including sound effects and music cues. That's expensive, fraught with legal issues on the approvals-from-Japan side of things, and also an absolute nightmare for anyone unfortunate enough to be working on such a project. It's just not worth the trouble.
IIRC AnimEigo's Bubblegum Crisis dub was done that way, but it's a pretty instructive exception to the rule, since it was:

* A very iconic and popular "gateway" show
* Still not that old to the fandom, and in a less-crowded landscape of new releases
* Dubbed in an era where approvals from Japan weren't as stringent
* Dubbed in an era before downloads and bootleg streaming greatly hobbled potential sales

Obviously, none of these are true of Obscure Undubbed Oldschool Title #38 for today's anime viewerbase and business environment.
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JoeOfTomorrow



Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 61
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 1:02 pm Reply with quote
Dr.N0 wrote:
JoeOfTomorrow wrote:
You know, if I really tried, I could make a redub of some shows like Maison Ikkoku on Sony Vegas Pro.
Then do it, and do not forget to log your hours. When you are done, we will see how cheap it would have been with a decent salary.


Sorry if it sounded like I was criticizing the companies for being 'lazy' or 'cheap', but I was just saying it's not impossible on a technical level to redub old non-action or fantasy oriented anime, mainly slice of life and romcoms, even with decayed audio or lost M&E tracks.

I can find the Captain Tsubasa dribbling ball sound effect for both sunny and rainy situations and constantly loop them, since the original footage already does that.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 3160
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 1:02 pm Reply with quote
Also, the Viz Sailor Moon redub wasn't just to avenge anime history (although that was it's biggest selling point Very Happy ), it was the fact that they didn't OWN DiC/Cloverway's dub, and even if they did, there was no existing dub for Sailor Stars.
The fact that it could sell and recoup the cost of the dub wasn't a disadvantage either.

When Discotek acquires an old-school title like a 70's feature or old ADV title, they often acquire the previous owner's dub as well, and there's no need for a redub, seeing as they don't really have the wherewithal to cast/record a dub in the first place.
But at least their "Castle of Cagliostro" could dig up EVERY old dub, including the Streamline, Manga and cleaned-up Manga.
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Mr. Oshawott



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 6401
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 1:18 pm Reply with quote
Well...This means I can kiss any chance of unfinished English versions of 1990's/early 2000's shows like You're Under Arrest good-bye for good, then...
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TonyTonyChopper



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 250
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 1:20 pm Reply with quote
I'm one of those few and far in between guys that was just born in the 90's but is at least as much interested in old as hell stuff as new things if not more !!!
So i kinda buy anything that's old i can get my hands on !!!
Seems i'm a bit weird for that xd.
It does get pretty frustrating at times but today for example i saw the dvd of Momotaro's sacred sailors released by Funimation no less it's things like that that keeps hopes and dreams alive xd.
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NJ_



Joined: 31 Oct 2009
Posts: 1614
Location: Wallington, NJ
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 1:39 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Without a useful M&E track, any dub production would require coming up with an all-new audio track, including sound effects and music queues. That's expensive, fraught with legal issues on the approvals-from-Japan side of things, and also an absolute nightmare for anyone unfortunate enough to be working on such a project. It's just not worth the trouble.


That's pretty much what happened with Dirty Pair since for the OVA series dub, ADV created their own music & effects for those episodes because the Japanese M&Es were lost.

Other examples of missing M&Es were Gunbuster (not counting the 5.1 mix), Five Star Stories and for more recent examples, Black Magic M-66 & New Dominion Tank Police.
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