×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
Answerman - Will China or Korea Ever Compete With Anime?


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Vaisaga



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13224
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:27 pm Reply with quote
I do love me some Korean porn comics. But outside of those I honestly wouldn't be very interested in watching anything animated by them (unless it was an adaptation of said porn comics. An animated Narakarana would be the shit).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Cam0



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 4884
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:39 pm Reply with quote
I've read the Shin Angyo Onshi (Blade of the Phantom Master) manhwa and it was actually really good. It had really beautiful background art. Apparently there's a movie based on it too, but I've never seen it.

I wouldn't mind reading more manhwa like that so I guess at least manhwa has potential. Not sure if I'd be interested in Korean or Chinese cartoons though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
FlowerAiko



Joined: 05 Apr 2017
Posts: 218
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:02 pm Reply with quote
I actually really enjoyed the King's Avatar this season. Hopefully, more Chinese productions like this make it out of China, and fewer Bloodivores do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NormanS



Joined: 15 Aug 2014
Posts: 167
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:30 pm Reply with quote
The last chinese animated work i saw when i was young was Lotus Lantern. It was pretty good for its time.

Im sure things have improved since, however i do not participate in the Chinese animation scene (if at all) but this article has given me some small insights.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Agent355



Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 5113
Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:39 pm Reply with quote
I'd argue that the Korean manwha industry has been on par with Japanese manga for years, if not decades, quality-wise. The way webtoons are going, it may over shadow Japanese manga in worldwide popularity someday, the way K-pop is more popular and accessible internationally compared to J-pop.
Many English manga publishers have released some manwha over the years, and a few titles, while not as popular as manga, seemed to gain some popularity. Goong, for example, which had the boost of a reasonably popular K-drama (Princess Hours) that has been available streaming with English subtitles for years. The problem, as I see it, is that publishers have been reluctant to put out Korean manwha because they *aren't* adapted into anime--there'll be no breakout hits like Naruto or Attack on Titan from manwha (they are adapted into Kdramas, but even as they're gaining popularity, their audience is still probably smaller than anime's).

Webtoons get around the accessibility problem by releasing legal English translations directly to the public, often for free, and they've been slowly growing in popularity. All they need are a few breakout hits.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JoeOfTomorrow



Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 61
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:53 pm Reply with quote
I don't know much about S. Korean animation, I only know companies should stay the hell away from AKOM. Looking at G1 Transformers, AKOM's best animation was far worse than Toei's worst, which says a lot since Toei animated more episodes and that series overall was rushed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2242
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:08 pm Reply with quote
Having only seen King's Avatar, I think one of the biggest hurdles that show faces is actually a lack of accessibility; not in terms of language, but in terms of gaming itself. Even SAO, for all its faults, took the time to explain the in-game and real-world systems it used, but King's Avatar in its anime form either lacks the time or the budget to integrate any sort of "as you know" scenes for the sake of its audience.

The worst part is that the expository bits are actually in the novel, but they're told from a third-person omniscient POV which makes them tough to integrate organically, and that the MMO terms used in China apparently differ greatly from the ones a Western audience would be more familiar with; like OT being "Over Threat" (i.e., losing aggro) in China, but meaning "Off-Tank" in the West. I also feel like, due to its ever-burgeoning cast, this series could do with a lot of editing to help streamline the narrative a bit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
epicwizard



Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 420
Location: Ashburn, VA
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:27 pm Reply with quote
China has some kids animated TV shows that are very successful over there. Examples include Pleasant Goat and Big Big Wolf (喜羊羊與灰太狼), Blue Cat (蓝猫), and Star Fox (星星狐) (no, not the one about a fox that pilots a spacecraft). The first two shows are so successful that they have well over 1500 episodes! I'm not kidding.

However, an international release outside of Chinese-speaking countries has been very, very small. Pleasant Goat had a very brief run in India on Hungama TV, while Blue Cat apparently had a South Korean release. Back in 2010, Creative Power Entertaining was working together with Disney to get Pleasant Goat on Disney channels in 52 countries (http://china.org.cn/arts/2010-10/19/content_21156660.htm), however, I don't think the attempt fully got off the ground. AFAIK, the only Western country that is lucky to actually get Pleasant Goat is the US, where it's available for streaming on both DramaFever and Miao Mi. Whether or not the show will gain a good amount of popularity on those streaming services remains to be seen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
H. Guderian



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 1255
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:50 pm Reply with quote
My take, is that 2D is essentially dead, and much like how there are still people passionately typing on typewriters a niche will move on. Anime trying to be universal and sterile will make it bland and unlikable, like all those Marvel anime by Madhouse.

Japanese animation managed to hit a few lucky points in its early development so that peole growing up stuck with it and formed a culture of supporting it. When I watch a new anime, I want to support it. Even if I saw a good Korean or Chinese cartoon...what's their culture for supporting it? Like the writer of the article pointed out, the domestic Koreans seem to be lukewarm on their own efforts. Meanwhile several cities in Japan (okay not many) have streets dedicated to the Anime Otaku in particular.

French Animation is -great- but like. Once you've watched a few Goeblins student animations you find out there's not much beyond that. Normally 'If You Build It, they will Come' would be something I'd like to say. But there's not that...underlying animation -consumer- culture developed there.

There are talented artists all around the world who love animation, but to make a whole persistent industry is gonna rely on building a wealthy consumer base. Limited Animation and the Production Committees we love to hate are how we got anime to where it is today. They were further spurred on the Post-Olympics boom and talent falling out of Television into Animation.

Something Cultural will need to occur, and combined with new techniques. Frankly, i think everyone else missed the boat. It isn't even certain the Japanese Anime industry will go on forever. Foreigners looking to invest in foreign 2D animation look to Japan to see how they did it, and if that implodes, they'd pull out too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BlueAlf



Joined: 02 Jan 2017
Posts: 1493
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:05 pm Reply with quote
I don't know. Apart from the weird regulations by China's government, personally I've always thought it's a cultural thing.

Not in the sense that these countries enjoy different things, but they enjoy them in different ways. In other words, it's because ordinary communication works differently in different cultures. It ends up having narration that prioritizes different tropes and values. Although for some reason, Japan's way of explaining things just seems to work better with the rest of the world.

I remember in the eary 2000s, during the Ragnarok Online boom, before the days of Webtoon, some Korean manhwa got licensed in my country. Some of them, especially the dramas, were more than good enough. But others were just... mediocre. They're enjoyable, but they just lacked significance. Nowadays though, there's been a trend where most titles just get better.

So rather than production and financial issues, maybe the answer actually lieis in cultural acclimatization?

Maybe we should start comparing lists.

Notable Korean Works I've enjoyed:
-Shin Angyo Onshi (manhwa)
-Bastard (webtoon)
-Noblesse (webtoon)
-Pororo the Penguin

Notable Chinese Works I've enjoyed:
-Wuxia by Jin Yong
-Wuxia by Gu Long
-Dragon and Tiger Gate comics
(...There's hardly anything else. I tried reading some Xianxia webnovels, but I just can't enjoy it.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eventine



Joined: 16 Jun 2017
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:13 pm Reply with quote
Anime is on the decline in the West. You might not notice it, other people might deny it, but the industry is feeling it, and the evidence is everywhere. It isn't a recent phenomenon, either. It began back in 2006 and never quite recovered:

https://myanimelist.net/news/2571712

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture/2014/01/09/general/will-cool-japan-finally-heat-up-in-2014/#.WURnS2jyu72

animenewsnetwork.com/news/2017-02-09/japanese-bd-dvd-sales-down-6.1-percent-from-2015/.112040

But the international anime industry posted improved earnings in recent years due to stream sales in China:

animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-09-29/report-anime-industry-up-12-percent-in-2015/.107055

https://www.wsj.com/articles/japan-feeds-chinas-anime-addiction-1482060688

The recent surge of Chinese-Japanese co-productions, where Chinese companies bankroll Japanese firms to produce anime for Chinese and international streaming platforms, is a sign of the times.

The Chinese streaming market is massive, and together with streaming platforms elsewhere in Asia, represents more or less the future of Asian produced animated content. But Japan is late to this game, and political barriers enacted by the Chinese government to protect their domestic animation industry has not helped. The reason Chinese-Japanese co-productions are becoming so lucrative is because it can get around Chinese import bans against Japanese entertainment.

But any diligent business man should now ask: why wouldn't the Chinese just cut the Japanese out of the market altogether, like they've done with Western companies like Google and Apple? Ten years ago, all the top smart phone makers in China were foreign. Now, all the top smart phone makers in China are Chinese. Chinese internet giants have a virtual monopoly over the local market and are expanding overseas. Chinese electronic makers have displaced foreign manufacturers and are also now looking overseas. The same story is told again and again, with respect to how Chinese industries operate.

Only in a few fields, like animation and film, do the Chinese still tolerate a certain amount of competition and imports, mostly through co-productions. But that's also changing. The Chinese government, aware of the potential ideological content of foreign animation and entertainment, has had an active program to develop Chinese domestic animation and film since the early 2000. This initiative has picked up steam as the Chinese economy improved, and while its resources will always be tied, ultimately, to the state of the Chinese economy, it's currently doing quite well:

http://variety.com/2017/film/markets-festivals/monster-hunt-monkey-king-hero-returns-china-media-capital-annecy-china-1202457893/

The bottom line here is that there is a lot of money currently being invested into the Chinese animation industry, both by private investors and the Chinese government, and Chinese policy favors domestic firms. Time is running out for the Japanese animation industry to take a piece of the pie, and should they fail to take a piece of the pie, then why wouldn't we expect what happened in the Chinese electronics industry, to also happen in the Chinese animation industry?

As for position in the West, again the main battle ground is streaming platforms. This might not be obvious to the older generation of anime watchers who depend on torrent or fan subs or cable, but younger generations should be well aware of the fact that streaming is the future and that simultaneous world wide releases are becoming the rule, not the exception. Japanese companies that refuse to adapt to this trend will be at a disadvantage despite the higher production quality and story content of anime, and that too might change in time as Chinese companies improve, and as more Japanese production companies are contracted to develop content for Chinese streaming companies.

In the future, there could be a definite moment in which you say, Chinese animation has overtaken anime in popularity. It will, for sure, happen first in China, and then whether it happens in the rest of the world depends on whether Chinese animation has international appeal. It could be that Chinese culture is too different from the West for it to ever take off here. Japan is both more Westernized and was at the right place, at the right time in terms of the Western TV animation market. It could be that no other country will ever be able to replicate their success in the English speaking world. But it could also be that ten years from now, you'll be tuning in to new episodes of Chinese cartoons on your favorite streaming platforms and wondering why you ever thought it couldn't happen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ushio



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 629
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:40 pm Reply with quote
Fenrin wrote:
I'm just surprised why South Korea hasn't successfully entered this market. They have animators and devoted webtoons fans worldwide, it would seem like the audience is there.


Because rather than have there own style they come off as pale imitations of Japanese styles.

For Japan animation started as a way to do ambitious shows with a limited budget and they have been doing it for over a century. For Korea it's a combination of businesses seeing profit in exporting animation due to Japan's success and Korean's making there own versions of the Japanese anime they watched as kids.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ice_tea



Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 74
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:03 pm Reply with quote
Blackiris_ wrote:
I think we need to wait at least another two or three years to properly judge the potential of Chinese anime productions. I'm especially curious whether they manage to establish their own kind of identity, or if Chinese productions are forever doomed to appear as uninspired (or sometimes maybe aspired) attempts to do what the Japanese do.


The problem is that Chinese productions are inspired usually by the "hyped" Japanese titles (Shounen manga/light novel style titles), which are either mediocre or bad. What is good is subjective, I know. I just personally don't like those types of shows, let alone the Chinese animation that's trying to copy them, with some added Chinese cultural ideas (IMO the cultural differences won't make those titles more interesting).

The Chinese government still has a lot of restrictions on what content TV can show. It's a fact that there's still no freedom of expression in China and there's no rating system there, so anything with an adult/mature/controversial theme are likely to be banned (some Japanese anime with those themes were banned though fans who want to watch them can resort to downloading). I believe that animation producers will be more likely to play it safe and not express anything that's not allowed by the government. That will somewhat restrict their creativity. Also sticking to the types of shows the mainstream anime fans like is the safest way to make money. I am sure most Chinese producers' biggest dream is to make a show as "good" and big as the most popular shounen manga or light novel adapted anime titles. That's the biggest success to them rather than making something outside the box or from different genres.

If they don't make those terrible web novels into animation shows, they will still make them into live action TV shows. You probably have no idea how terrible/trashy a lot of live action Chinese TV shows based on web novels are. But there's an audience for them. That's what matters most to the producers. You have an idea what the "mainstream" Chinese taste is like.

And I agree with epicwizard, the most successful cartoon shows in China are those kids shows like Pleasant Goat, which are not similar to anime. As long as a lot of kids like them, they are successful. They don't need to copy any Japanese anime.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flare-kun



Joined: 26 Jun 2010
Posts: 92
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:53 pm Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
My answer is simple: not at their current level. Even their most known an likes Chinese cartoon, The Kings Avatar is just mediocre to me.


I have to disagree. I've been keeping up with the show, and I think it's one of the best things on this season. It takes a couple episodes to really rev up, but once it does, it features likable characters and some truly spectacular action sequences. The story is relatively simple, but the main character is sly and enigmatic in a way that makes you want to know what he'll do next. I'd recommend that people give it a fair shake before passing judgment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:05 pm Reply with quote
Having finished all the episodes available on their Youtube channel in a matter of hours, I'll have to agree that The King's Avatar is actually pretty good. I think it is interesting that it actually looks at professional gaming instead of using gaming as just the motif for a trapped in a fantasy world story. I do like the lead because of his craftiness and it doesn't hurt that he is around the same age as me. I can't really evaluate the acting as I'm not familiar enough with Chinese to confidently differentiate between good and bad voice acting. Not only did I like it enough to watch it in one night, I actually want a second season. That's probably the highest praise I can muster for a Chinese production. If you watch one Chinese production, this would be my recommendation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group