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LA Times: For the anime industry, the streaming revolution is both a blessing and a curse




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Kosaka



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 239
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:50 pm Reply with quote
I found this to be an interesting read.

(LA Times) For the anime industry, the streaming revolution is both a blessing and a curse:
http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-anime-business-20170701-story.html
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Blood-
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:30 am Reply with quote
It's funny - until I read that article, I had only focused on the downside of having anime content spread across several different streaming platforms. What never occurred to me, for some reason, is that giants like Netflix and Amazon might be putting huge financial pressure on traditional anime distribs like Funi, Sentai, etc. If those traditional distribs start being limited in the titles they can release, I think anime fans are in trouble. Christoper MacDonald has already speculated in repsonse to a question I posted at ANN that the increase in license fees is probably what has kept NISA - one of my favourite distribus - from acquiring new titles over the last few years. Scary stuff.

Last edited by Blood- on Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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v1cious



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:15 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
It's funny - until I read that article, I had only focused on the downside of having anime content spread across several different streaming platforms. What never occurred to me, for some reason, is that giants like Netflix and Amazon might be putting huge financial pressure on traditional anime distribs like Funi, Sentai, etc. If those traditional distribs start being limited in the titles they can release, I think anime fans are in trouble. Christoperh MacDonald has already speculated in repsonse to a question I posted at ANN that the increase in license fees is probably what has kept NISA - one of my favourite distribus - from acquiring new titles over the last few years. Scary stuff.


The problem is it doesn't help them, either. This would be fine if it was like Netflix' Voltron, and they had exclusive rights to these series, but the shows are still broadcasting on Television. Instead of drawing people to their platform, they're hurting their properties by encouraging people to watch fansubs.
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nobahn
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:27 pm Reply with quote
Kosaka--
Thanks for the link; very interesting article.

L.A. Times wrote:
The often overwhelming array of choices has created a siloing effect for customers, with their favorite shows hidden behind multiple paywalls. [...] This has driven many fans to piracy and torrent sites, which they use as a centralized place that meets all of their anime needs.
Does this mark the Return of the Fansubbers? Razz
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
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Location: South America
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:56 pm Reply with quote
I think that they are making too much out of this. If you are a serious fan spending 25 dollars monthly on Netflix, Crunchyroll and Hulu together is not the end of the world. Much cheaper than buying the physical stuff as the North American fans used to do 10 years ago.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:08 pm Reply with quote
@ Jose Cruz: your comment conveniently leaves out the fact that Amazon Prime / Anime Strike are starting to account for some pretty big titles. Plus, there are some of those who like streaming AND buying phyiscal releases.
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Skerlly Fc



Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 79
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:59 am Reply with quote
Don´t get me wrong. Even if I don´t have Netflix and Amazon, I understand it´s a pity what they´re doing for broadcasting anime. But I don´t want the anime community to kill the chances for anime to get the recognition it deserves outside of Japan, because the complains about both streaming companies are not correctly addressed.

With this I mean that:

We don´t understand what´s in the side of business, and how is the relationship between the production comitees and the streaming companies, before saying that Netflix and Amazon want to steal viewers´money. It has been stated before that Netflix chooses only 1 or 2 series each season, and what they choose is stuff with more mainstream appeal, by the way

We don´t do anything by saving our complain with the streaming companies to ourselves, or in between the community. We have to talk about the issue with the streaming services, or some people who are more in contact with them.

It´s awesome to see My Hero Academia S1 get recognized by The New York Times as one of their best shows of 2016, or to see Welcome to The Ballroom or The Ancient Magus´ Bride being broadcasted in USA first that in Japan ´cause they have more international appeal, and other achievements that in the past anime couldn´t make outside Japan. It also speaks of how far have licensing anime outside of Japan has gone. BUT to destroy things like that, with anime viewers speaking about whatching the new shows via fansubs(even if it´s understandable why) like it´s "THE ONLY WAY OF WATCHING ANIME, OR BECAUSE IT IS THE SUPERIOR WAY", or avoiding all anime dubs because of a 2nd funimation bad practice(even if it´s understandable), speaks of how much some anime viewers prefer anime to stay niche. Or how they rather have no legal way of watching anime besides expensive DVDs and Crunchyroll because fansubs are ``superior´´, instead of doing something to solve NEtflix and Amazon´s problem, or to help anime be more accesible to people who are not into it.

I consider that instead of complaining and not doing anything, or just unsubscribing to their services and sending both companies the wrong messages(this one being: we don´t want alternatives to watching anime, so stay away from anime altogheter, or fansubs are superior, you´ll never subtitle like them. We anime viewers are better that your clients so we hate you), `cause unsubscribing from them can make some difference but more of a negative one, we have to think of the issue from the right perspective, or with the right mind, and see if we can make a change for the better.

[Edit]: I've merged this with the already running thread. Errinundra.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:34 am Reply with quote
@Skerlly Fc

Relax, I doubt you have a problem there for a few reasons.

First, I've followed most of the comments about both Netflix and Amazon and I've yet to see anyone say they are going to unsubscribe because of the addition of anime to the lineup. Most of the people who have posted in that regard are on Netflix or have Amazon Prime for other reasons and simply "don't see what the problem is". Further those fans who think anime can only be watched a certain way are happy that they have a new excuse for the pirating they were going to do anyway.

Second, I have yet to see any indication that either Amazon or Netflix cares what the fan community thinks at all. They are large enough to ignore it and simply make anime available on a take it or leave it basis. It is not as if there is anyway to satisfy all of our little subgroups anyway.

Third, it probably doesn't matter. I simply don't see the presence of anime on those services bringing in that many new people anyway. As with any streaming service, you have to specifically select an anime program to watch. You are not going to find something new by accident as you might channel surfing. You might get a few kids whose parents have a Netflix account but will not spring for Crunchyroll, but those already know what they want.

TLDR: I think this is a non issue.
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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:41 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
@ Jose Cruz: your comment conveniently leaves out the fact that Amazon Prime / Anime Strike are starting to account for some pretty big titles. Plus, there are some of those who like streaming AND buying phyiscal releases.


I wonder if any of these services have Ghibli's films? Also, do you know stuff in Anime Strike that's not in CR, Netflix or Hulu?

Anyway, I hope CR grows a lot more (it has the potential since most of it's users are teenagers and college students with free accounts and as they will become older so their capacity to spend on premium CR accounts) so it becomes large enough to buy the rights for almost everything.

Alan45 wrote:
Third, it probably doesn't matter. I simply don't see the presence of anime on those services bringing in that many new people anyway. As with any streaming service, you have to specifically select an anime program to watch. You are not going to find something new by accident as you might channel surfing. You might get a few kids whose parents have a Netflix account but will not spring for Crunchyroll, but those already know what they want.


Well, I think that Netflix and Hulu are seriously helping to raise "anime awareness" in the Western world: hundreds of millions of people have access to either of these services and they all have "anime" listed in the basic menu. In the Brazilian netflix for instance you see a lot of anime stuff mixed in the other categories (like action, science fiction, fantasy, etc) as well.

For instance, a couple of weeks ago I saw in my facebook feed that a guy was making a joke about the documentary about a Brazilian extreme right wing philosopher, saying that now they only need to make the anime series about him. I think that's the effect of Netflix on people: before they had no access to adult anime at all, now most middle class people in the western world can watch something like Madoka, which is essentially hardcore otaku stuff, just by using the remote control.

A few years ago the only way to watch this stuff legally on the TV outside of Japan was either through a specialized channel (Animax) which didn't exist in US and almost nobody had that channel outside of US anyway, or through rental stores (stores which only had a lot of anime in the big cities).

[Edit]: combined consecutive posts. Errinundra.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:46 pm Reply with quote
@Jose Cruz

You may be right, but unfortunately there is no way to tell. My understanding is that Netflix seldom, if ever, releases any information as to viewership.

I should point out that in the US, Hulu has offered Anime for some time now, any I haven't seen anything to indicate that a lot of people got into it that way. I suspect that Netflix, Hulu and Amazon added anime to attract additional viewers, not to convert existing viewers to anime.

My main thought is that with streaming services, unlike TV or cable, you have to actually choose to watch a show. You can't find something just channel surfing. Granted, anime actually being on Netflix does make such a choice easier.

Regardless, I doubt anime will ever become mainstream. Just as well, there are themes in anime that I would prefer not to have to discuss with all and sundry.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:34 am Reply with quote
Hulu dramatically reduced its inventory of anime last year. I'm guessing they didn't get enough viewings to justify the rights fees. Also Hulu has begun to position itself more as a complement to television viewing, offering new episodes next day and encouraging binge watching. That's not too surprising given that its owners are Fox, Comcast, TimeWarner, and Disney.

In the discussions about Netflix and Amazon, posters like the well-informed samuelp suggest the services aren't trying to attract current anime viewers but offer something else to encourage and maintain subscriptions. I can see how that would work in households with kids, and Netflix's lineup of shows has strong shounen leanings along with a couple of noitaminA seinen leftovers like Samurai Flamenco.

Amazon's strategy is less apparent to me. They went after the two best-known "slots" on the anime schedule, noitaminA and Animeism, but whom are they trying to reach? Fans without a Prime membership face an enormous financial obstacle to watch Strike's programming. And will ordinary Prime members used to watching movies and TV shows suddenly shell out another five bucks a month to see Vatican Miracle Examiner or Welcome to the Ballroom? Amazon can afford to lose money on Strike for a long time while they figure out what they're doing. Meanwhile I see over 22,000 downloads for the most recent "horrible" Bahamut fansub.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:57 am Reply with quote
I agree, yuna49, that Amazon's anime strategy is somewhat mystifying. My guess is that they believe a fair chunk of anime fans already have Amazon Prime (for reasons other than viewing anime - i.e. free and faster shipping, etc) and Anime Strike is a way of shaking a few more shekels out of those particular AP customers.
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Alan45
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:28 am Reply with quote
Amazon Prime is reported to have a really large market share in the US. I think I read it was something like 80% of US households. I don't remember where I saw that though.

Amazon's usual tactic is to underprice the competition even if it means losing money for awhile. I suppose it is possible that they have begun thinking that "everyone has Prime". Looked at like that, they are charging very little for their anime streaming service. As I mentioned above many of the people already on Prime "don't see the problem".

Unfortunately, most of the country is not "all". Judging from the outraged comments I'm not the only anime fan without Prime. If you were an Amazon executive, you probably can't understand why everyone doesn't have prime just for the shipping costs. I do shop Amazon occasionally, mostly for books not available locally, but I doubt the total cost of the merchandise is to the level of a Prime membership much less the shipping costs. It just isn't cost effective for me.
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