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EP. REVIEW: A Centaur's Life


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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:32 pm Reply with quote
Yttrbio wrote:
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
My point was that the concern about the useage of "pc" is a legitimate concern, particularly in an Internet setting. We all know why ANN has censored a particular three letter word starting with "S." And yea, I have had countless debates with conservatives and people of various political sttipes. The "pc" term is virtually always used as a put down of a particular argument on tolerance or equality. Someone will put forth such a position and the other will say "You're just being PC!!! Na na na na na na!" (Taunting sound optional.) Or, in the abstract, people will comment about the ideal of another group and say "they are pc!! Haha, how stupid are they!" Or, as you have done here, vague undefined references to "pc culture" are made.
If you're talking about the specific phrase "PC Culture," it's a complete non sequitur to this discussion. The anime didn't use it. Gabriella used it, but I understood her to refer to the ideas behind criticism of PC culture (or calling out culture, or whatever else you want to call the social policing of language to advance justice), which are present in the anime. It sounds like the caliber of your political discussions sucks, though, because I don't run into the same problems with the phrase you seem to.


Lol, yes you do. You just won't admit it. Smile we've all been around the block a few times. You're not fooling anyone. But I don't think we will get anywhere further on that so I'll move back to discussing the show.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23669
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:02 pm Reply with quote
@ ChibiKangeroo - when talking about the handling of the Holocaust-style scene and whether it was "tastefully" done, you have to look at two separate issues: first the details that went into the scene itself and second the context of the scene as a whole.

On the first score, I have no complaints. It was a straightforward depiction that didn't include any goofiness (that I could perceive). It's the second score that I am less sure about. Basically, that whole scene was a long stroll to depict the backstory of an elderly character and explain why he didn't have a problem shaking hands with a frogman without the frogman wearing gloves. I am of the mind that if you are going to evoke the Holocaust in a detailed and extended way (such as devoting half an episode to it), you'd better have a pretty good reason for doing so. I'm not sure that standard was met here.

Then there was the other contextual stuff before getting to Centaurwitz. Like how we leave the first half of the episode on Frogman burning his tongue on tea served to him by high school mammal girls in French maid outfits right into, "Oh hi, Holocaust!" Yeah, definitely not sitting well with me.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:17 pm Reply with quote
I see your points Blood-. At first, while I was watching I wasn't 100% sure what I would think of the Holocaust part. I wasn't kidding when I said I was speechless for the second half of the episode. However, the whole interaction between frog man and angel dude really connected with me and totally sold it. The issue of the gloves, where seriously marginalized groups are seen as "dirty" is a very real thing that there are many real world analogues to. It probably was no mistake also that they chose to do a Jewish analogue for the angel dude. Jewish people were some of the biggest supporters of the U.S. Civil Rights movement, so there is another connection there that works. It's why I was saying that whoever wrote this must have really thought it through. You could look at this story from so many different angles and in many different real world perspectives and it is still meaningful.

Maybe I am more the audience for something like this though since I am often complaining about what I see as the complacency and blandness of much anime. So when they come in with something like this that just shocks the audience, but with seriousness and deep meaning (i.e. not just a gimmick like what many anime do) it is probably more likely to resonate with me.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:56 pm Reply with quote
I guess I'm a little bit more suspicious about the seriousness and deep meaning of the episode as a whole. If they had done a better job of dealing with Jean Rousseau's situation and all the fascinating colonial/indigenous issues it hastily threw out there and didn't do such a ridiculous job of shoe-horning some of our female cast into the mix, I might be tempted to suspect the writers actually knew what they were doing. However, given the inelegance on display, it wouldn't shock me if the impetus for Angeldude's back story was, "hmmm, we wanna show why this guy is so accepting of other species-folk... what to do, what to do ... bingo, let's make him a Holocaust-style survivor!"
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:39 pm Reply with quote
I read an article a long time ago that might explain A Centaur's Life whiplash. It talked about the difference in editorialism in japan and the west. In the west editorials are razor sharp, whatever the political shade of the spectrum they adhere to, it is pretty clear what they are trying to say. Meanwhile in japan editorials are like a dog that is going to bed, they go round and round flattening their bed ... and then they run out of the house! I think the original author is doing just that, the intent is not spoon feeding us ideas, instead the manga just shows us an outline of them for us to make our own conclusions.
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Galap
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Joined: 07 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:52 pm Reply with quote
Let's continue this discussion without the snide remarks and the 'my political opponents are evil' attitude.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15433
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:32 am Reply with quote
Took a little bit before coming to this thread and episode review, I got kind of heated in the Anime series section, and I had been seeing posts of Blood- saying he found the episode to be ridiculous, I guess in the idea of an episode like this in a cute slice of life series.

I am on the side that I thought the episode was good, and was somewhat powerful. I actually don't think it is as mind breaking of mood whiplash as other might feel, the series has touched on a lot of social political issues, that taking inspiration from a real world horrible event is I think not too actual surprising, and finds a place in the series. If I am understanding Blood- enough, I think that he was finding problem in feeling like the entire thing was used to just to build up why one guy encouraged to shake without a glove, and at least in my view I think that it is kind of looking at it backwards from what I am. I don't think that it was being used to make a point of why he did it, rather how it is important for him to do so.

Most of the people in the show's culture act without prejudice because they are told how they should feel about something, educated that they should be all equal and the like. The old man though is one who has lived it, he does not just accepting the law against discrimination, he clearly understands the spirit. The implications of etiquette we saw was that in general despite the word that they are equal, Jean is expected to wear gloves because people would find his raw hands gross, and it should be natural that the old man would want to clean his hand. But it was past that ideas of etiquette for its own sake and what is permitted past the rule of law, that true equality is gained, through understanding, to put that above just being comfortable.

It kind of runs right into what we have had with Sassassul, that there was no level rulings to treat the Antartician's well (pulling guns out) to meet them as equals, except for actually getting to know them. And it likely to be uncomfortable to some degree, like it was initially for Hime with her, along with a string of other things, but is a combination of understanding what may make the other side uncomfortable, and trying as hard as possible to actually treat them as an equal. It is clear that Jean too is very wrapped up in that sort of thing, where he is going to have a hard time, his own native people were not letting children treat him like any other, and there are aspects they are rejecting and not listening to him when he is much more informed with what dangers could be down paths while he also seems to have made an effort to be part of both cultures.

Also want to throw in there that I got some tears at the idea of the Jewish angel guy being adopted by the American soldier centaur, of giving a meaning of family beyond being of just the same blood. And in response to trying to figure out what monster people represent which ethnicity, I think that endeavour is actually misinformed, as I have not thought of the monster race being comparable just to a real world race. For one, Japan is notoriously mono-ethnic, it would not have made sense to say centaurs were traditional Japanese, since other hints point at other races here being connected just as much to Japan. The closest I think I have been able to look is that the monster races were largely environmental regions, that a race could at most be comparable to class and differing builds within nationalities, or other things that turn out to be not a big deal when we create large connected settlements. Or really its own thing that can be used for different thing depending on the story it wants.

And lastly, I want to throw my hat into the little discussion I saw on "PC culture". I think we it in a way is kind of brought up in this show is in the places where it is clearly kind of hinting that being politically correct has gone a step too far, that it is easy to think this show might be critical of it in general. And lets be honest in that in ways it is sort of a hot topic, that some of us feel like those who are critical of being so politically correct are acting out because they cannot openly express all their fear and hatred. That it is sort of in the middle of a war between people who feel like they are not being allowed to criticise the system, and those that feel like those feelings of discrimination, fear and hatred are actually still poisoning the rest of society. But I don't think that this show is actually being as negative as might have been thought, as just a look at something like the holocaust is enough to see that the loss of some freedoms of expressing certain things is far preferential to some of the ugliest parts of human nature. One thing can be clear that things along the lines of Nazis is something we cannot allow.

And just look at how seriously I am treating a discussion of a show like this. Which I am sure will be thought of as by a number that it is silly to do so, but this is just me.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23669
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:13 am Reply with quote
@ DuskyPredator - I wouldn't say that I found the episode as a whole to be ridiculous. I think there are ridiculous things in it (particularly in the execution of the Jean Rousseau segment) and I don't believe the Holocaust setting is actually justified. My initial postings were really more about being shocked than anything. I couldn't believe I had seen what I had just seen. There were compelling ideas jammed into the episode, but overall I'm more apt to characterize it as an interesting failure.
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Terrible90sDub



Joined: 14 Jul 2017
Posts: 168
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:21 am Reply with quote
I wonder if the second half would've worked better as a completely unrelated short. I appreciated it some respect on its own, especially how it connected to the angel man's current behavior, but I could never shake this feeling of massive whiplash and disbelief because this is Centaur Girl. I mean, the OP, even for this ep, shows a close up of a moe horse girl in a bikini.

I was prepared to have this anime go down as one that has some interesting aspects (mostly coming from Sassassul), but is something I'd ultimately quickly forget. There are a few lines that I remember more for "WTF why" than anything else (like the vagina leering and the mom considering giving her elementary-age daughter to her cousin if only it wasn't, to quote the subtitles, going to be a "loli-yuri lover")... and then suddenly, the holocaust. The disconnect there is a little too large for me to completely reconcile.

Actually, I would probably find a whole show about UN Angel Guy more interesting than this anime as a whole, but as a half episode sudden event right after seeing a frog man make X_x face at bad tea...
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Dark Mac



Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 309
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:48 pm Reply with quote
The style reminds me a little bit of something like Angel Beats, which went back and forth between someone being killed over and over again for comedy purposes to children being tortured and brutally murdered. I think the combination of comedy and seriousness helps keep the audience engaged and allows them to connect better to the situation. I mean, it doesn't work for everyone, and Centaur's probably not quite as successful as AB, but there's a reason that was one of the most popular anime of all time.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23669
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:11 pm Reply with quote
@ Dark Mac - and I'm normally one of those who welcomes srs bidniz/goofy humour. Loved Angel Beats. Loved Akame ga Kill! It's just not working for me here and I suspect it has something to do with the execution, not just the conceptual (although that is a factor, too - come on, segue waying from "frog man burns his tongue!" to "Holocaust" probably can't work in any context.)
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:59 pm Reply with quote
I quite liked episode nine. Sure, its bleak overtone is somewhat dissonant from previous episodes, but it still had an optimistic streak running through it. The episode also expanded the world of these characters and offered two really interesting and thoughtful back-to-back stories. I particularly loved the way the second story tied in with the first, I thought that was fairly clever and added emotional heft and context to what was otherwise a banal handshake scene. This is what I mean about an optimistic streak; the message is that if you treat someone with respect and accept your differences then the world can be a much more fairer and kinder place.

Galap wrote:
Let's continue this discussion without the snide remarks and the 'my political opponents are evil' attitude.


Indeed. Just wish the reviewer hadn't started it in the first place. There was absolutely no need for her "dog whistle" comment.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11306
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:59 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Jean Rousseau, an amphibianfolk and a Frenchman (get it?)

I didn't until you pointed it out. Smile Slurs that I don't use or hear often tend to go right over my head.

Was I the only one who thought Rousseau usually wore gloves to shake hands because non-amphibians would find his skin slimy? If he were a toad or other dry-skinned amphibian, that would be different, but I expected a frog- or newt-person would have retained their naturally slimy skin. I was kinda disappointed that it was just garden variety racism.

On a completely unrelated topic, in Japan you remove your shoes when you enter a home, but centaurs can't do that. So what do they do? Do they have some kind of hoof coverings to wear when at home or visiting friends? If this has been addressed I obviously missed it. I think it'd be interesting to go shopping with Himeno to get new shoes. Smile
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:21 pm Reply with quote
It seems despite her previous objection to same-sex relationships back in episode three or so, the student council prez might actually be a lesbian. After all, she didn't protest going arm in arm with her friend.

I'm glad she has someone who understands both her and her home life. I was beginning to think she had no one to lean on at all.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11306
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:33 am Reply with quote
I'm curious: people tailing their friend(s) on a date to see what happens is a stock anime premise, but has anyone ever actually done this? I just can't imagine even thinking about doing such a thing. I've never even followed someone I happened to spot out and about, let alone planned to do it in advance.
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