Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Welcome to the Ballroom
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5504 Location: Mexico |
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I don't even know where to start with this episode, I had such a visceral hatred for such a big part of it. I don't know which I found more offensive, the homophobic "joke" or how the show insists on this narrative that "only the leader matters" "the judges only look at the (male) leader" "it doesn't matter if the girl isn't talented, the man will make up for it" etc etc. It boggles the mind why the author chose to write a story about a team sport that necessitates a man and a woman to cooperate when she clearly refuses to treat the female characters as anything but second-class citizens
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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^
I concur CrowLia. Given that the manga is written by a woman I am surprised at how much the female characters are made to suffer, and how the narrative treats them so poorly and with so little respect. It also boggles my mind why she would even write a story about ballroom dancing when she 1): seemingly doesn't know much about the sport, and 2): has clearly never consulted actual dancers as to how the two partners are supposed to work together. Ugh, I tried to get back into this show but I just can't do it. What really bugs me with the show is not the lack of motion in the dancing, or that for so long the music was ill-fitting, but rather the way so many characters are emotionally unhealthy and have unhealthy and unequal relationships with each another. See Tatara's reason to enter the sport being solely due to a childish need for attention; Sengoku being the world's most asinine mentor; Gaju's disgusting treatment of Mako; Hyōdō keeping secrets from Shizuku*; Akira's tormenting of Chinatsu; the notion that the stallions have to tame unruly mares (people are not horses for crying out loud). While it's normal to have your characters start out flawed and then develop into better people, it is rare to see such a big portion of the cast just being unlikeable from the start and then the story doubling down on it by promoting unhealthy messages. * If one partner can't dance properly (or at all) due to injury then that obviously affects the other one too. She had every right to know about his injuries. |
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CrowLia
Posts: 5504 Location: Mexico |
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It's not only that the characters are unpleasant, but that the writing never really acknowledges it, au contraire, it seems convinced they're just a bunch of cool tough guys.
Sengoku is an asshole through and through, never properly teaches Tatara anything -even the Quickstep variation was ill-fitted for him-, but we're supposed to feel sad when Tatara graduates from his apprenticeship. Gaju never apologizes for tormenting Mako, making fun of her body and literally calling her a burden, but we're supposed to accept him as Tatara's new buddy and that his relationship with Mako was just magically fixed because she gets to act bossy towards him sometimes.
Even if this show became a beacon of feminist values, I could never forgive it for making Shizuku take the blame from that whole debacle- 
They're basically validating Sengoku's assertion that she was a "skank" and that "she's just throwing a fit", when she had every right to be angry at both Sengoku and Hyodo (none of which apologize to her or acknowledge their wrongdoing!!) for keeping that information from her |
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FackuIkari
 Posts: 411 Location: Argentina |
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I honestly just feel like you are looking for things to hate
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DmonHiro
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Dear lord.... is this show EVER going to figure out that it literally takes two to tango? This has to be the worst representation of dancing in anime. I know jack shit about dancing but even I know the partners are equals. Yes, the man usually leads, but it's not in the literal sense. It doesn't mean mean he's the leader it just means that he initiates the dance moves, this leading the partner into them. And I don't care how good the lead is, if the follow doesn't know what to do they ain't dancing. There's none of this BS where the woman just kind of goes along for the ride and marvels at how amazing the mans dance steps are. She's supposed to know the dame goddamn dance moves. She's the follow. She follows into them. HOW THE HELL CAN SHE FOLLOW INTO ANYTHING IF SHE'S SURPRISED AT EVERY SINGLE NEW MOVE!
GOD this show makes me angry. |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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I defended this series up until now, but this last episode was atrocious. They changed one of the most pivital and important scenes from the manga. I can't imagine what they were thinking removing Chinatsu's amazing backstory like that. It was incredibly important to the plot. I demand all the staff be trotted out and made to publically appologize for that unforgivable descision
 I'm with you guys now.
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Animechic420
 Posts: 1727 Location: A Cave Filled With Riches |
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Tatara really needs to get his shit together. He’s has to stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and focus on bettering his dance moves. I don’t see how blaming himself is supposed to fix everyone’s problems.
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11340 |
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::insert all the usual gripes::
How can someone possibly compete in any sport, especially at the apparently upper tier Grand Prix, and not understand how the freaking scoring system works?! As a viewer, and since ballroom dance isn't really a mainstream sport, it would also help if they explained some to me how it works, more than vague handwaves at the concepts it's based on. I didn't understand that scoring sheet any better than Tatara did. All zeroes is a good thing? I guess? As opposed to no numbers at all? Is this graded pass/fail or something? |
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Minos_Kurumada
Posts: 1003 |
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As far a as I know, there are no rules. It's entirely about how much you can "Wow" they judges, again another thing Seijo no Pin does better explaining: "Your presence is everything". |
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 2606 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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Right? That's my chief complaint - if that had been left in, I think we'd have a much better understanding of her as a character and a better view of her place in the story.
I think that rather than zeros, they were the equivalent of circling a correct test answer versus making a check mark by an incorrect one. @DmonHiro A really good lead can get you through some fancy moves you don't know well, but yeah, you do need to know that basics of them. |
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someidiot
Posts: 9 |
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I'll be honest, the amount of criticism on this thread about the show's interpretation of lead and follow is quite baffling to me. I thought at first that this was common sense. But after seeing the backlash, I had to read more about the subject. Sure enough, my preconceptions were reinforced. I am not arguing for or against the show as a whole, I'm just finding these specific criticisms too feminist without substance, a combination I hate the most.
http://www.danceplace.com/grapevine/lead-vs-follow-what-do-the-roles-really-mean/ Two statements I want to quote: "Without their guidance, the dance cannot progress past its base components." "They are the Actor, directed by the lead in a particular movement, on which they build and create an extraordinary performance. In most dances, after all, it is not the lead that a spectator will remember – it is the shining performance of the follow." Interestingly, they are using the same picture and frame analogy as the show. I find this to be almost the exact position the show is taking.There is NO point in a good follow if the lead is bad. Thus, the judges only judge the lead in the early stages, to weed out the bad leaders. Only in the later stages will the follow truly start to shine. No matter how good the follow is, she can't progress with a bad lead without back-leading, which only helps in losing points. I believe Marisa even said these exact same points. I've been doing showjumping for over 5 years, and I believe I'm in an educated position to say this statement. I believe the "wild mare" analogy for Chinatsu is impeccably spot on. In its essence, both showjumping and ballroom dancing are very similar(bar one less beast and one more human). The leader draws the plan, and the follower executes it. I decide how many strides the horse takes before jumping, the horse will jump regardless of my choices. HOWEVER, if I get it wrong, the horse's jump will never be good. So if I am bad, it wouldn't matter even with the best horse in the world. The SAME applies to ballroom dancing(again, back-leading). Regarding the specific term "wild mare", trust me, I'v ridden some of those. Absolute hell. You're basically paralyzed. Throw Chinatsu in the mix, with her stubbornness and constant back-leading, and I find these specific words very fitting indeed. Dare I say Tatara needs to take proper hold of the reins, and guide her like that article says he should, or he's a lost cause. Of course the other side of the coin does exist, but only on the other aspects. One of which is whether the audience was taking note of the follow in the more advanced competitions we've seen. I honestly can't remember if they where fixated on the lead, the follow, or both. The other, more important problem is one that's been said a million times already. Being considerate to your partner. Holy hell, I'm more considerate towards a horse than they are towards a human being. I wouldn't mind that if the show took a stance against them, but I don't believe they did. Both the injury and the sibling tension were sort off swept below the rug. So yeah, I fully agree with their interpretation of follow/lead chemistry, and fully disagree with the other stuff. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Week after week there have been plenty of substantive reasons given as to why this anime is struggling. I think Rebecca Silverman has done a good job identifying and explaining what about the show specifically bothers her. Looking at this thread, her concerns regarding the show's baffling decisions are clearly shared by many viewers. What's interesting is the number of people who aren't ardent feminists and yet they've spoken out at the show's perverse treatment of its female characters. The misogyny is so blatant that it's impossible to ignore.
For me, the unforgivable act was how Shizuku had no lines in episode six, despite Gaju and Tatara making their deal that concerns her future. Not cool. |
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Mojave
 Posts: 178 |
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I had stopped looking through here because of how the show had broken my heart as a ballroom dancer, but decided to come back and see if things have improved. They have not, unfortunately. As a male ballroom dancer, I'm telling you that the show's depiction of lead and follow is blatantly wrong. You aren't scored more specifically on leading, even in early rounds. Judges do want to see that the male partner is leading well enough, but that's about all the attention they pay to it. They care much more about the couple's overall chemistry and performance. |
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someidiot
Posts: 9 |
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Like I said, I'm not referring to the other aspects. I'm talking specifically about the writer's interpretation of leading and following. I'm not sure why you are mentioning the other stuff. Anyways, I really find it weird that people are accusing a female writer of misogyny. If anything I'd call it bad character writing.
Mojave I would like to know more about your point of view. Isn't what you said the same thing, but in different words? From what I understand, overall chemistry and performance are greatly affected by the leader's performance. If he sucks, there isn't much she can do about it.This means that by necessity, the follower depends on the leader. On the other hand, the follower is scored based on aesthetic, the more flamboyant the better. But that's not something you will specifically look for in the earlier stages, because there are lots of bad couples at that stage(because of bad leaders). So the judges will prefer good leaders(even with mediocre follows) over bad leaders with perfect follows, because in the end the bad leader good follow combo isn't gonna get anywhere. Ofcourse good follow is a bonus, but the only comes after evaluating the lead. If you are telling me that a really good follow can create a competition winning dance despite a bad(or mediocre) lead WITHOUT back leading, then you have a point. But as someone with very little knowledge on the sport I find that hard to believe. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Because the other stuff is important too. In fact, in my mind they are even more important, because you can't just put those down to wilful ignorance of the sport on the part of the writer. Anyway, that particular line you quoted was actually a response to CrowLia, as per the name in the quotation tag.
I also find it weird that a female writer would create such an overtly misogynistic work. Especially in this current culture. But she clearly did, so here we are. |
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