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Hey, Answerman! [2007-03-02]


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Moonlight Soldier



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:22 pm Reply with quote
Gauss wrote:
Moonlight Soldier wrote:
So, do your readers a favour Zac, give them the full answer. As much as your opinion might be entertaining to read, a column isn't a review. You're still expected to provide some information and sources to back up what you say. And the great thing about new media is that you can provide context with a link.

I can barely contain my laughter at your righteous indignation. There's hardly anything more hilarious than somebody who takes their hobby way too seriously but doesn't know they take it too seriously. Jeez, when was the last time you saw a newspaper column or editorial provide sources? Take those blinkers off and just accept that outside the AMV community few think much of those fan videos. Just because some talented people manage to make AMVs with broad appeal doesn't invalidate Sturgeon's law (90% of everything is crud, i.e. worthless).


Except if you're going to have a column where you're answering questions is important not to misinform people or just spark further confusion.
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dentedonion



Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:39 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Except if you're going to have a column where you're answering questions is important not to misinform people or just spark further confusion.


well you know, the complaint of the official internet writer carries more weight than the complaint of a random person on a forum.

There was a similar issue that was sparked between a university commentary writer and some readers. They were upset because they felt that he hadn't done enough research on the topic at hand and that he was writing things that were untrue. Unfortunately for the parties he was writing slanderously about, he had the right to say whatever he felt about the given topic and could provide as much or as little background research as he wanted since it was an opinion piece.

I'm not saying I always agree with everything Answerman says, but I think he does have the right to pick and choose the kind of info he wants to publish in his answer column, regardless of how informed or uninformed it might be.
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SalarymanJoe



Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 467
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:43 pm Reply with quote
Moonlight Soldier wrote:
Gauss wrote:
Moonlight Soldier wrote:
So, do your readers a favour Zac, give them the full answer. As much as your opinion might be entertaining to read, a column isn't a review. You're still expected to provide some information and sources to back up what you say. And the great thing about new media is that you can provide context with a link.

I can barely contain my laughter at your righteous indignation. There's hardly anything more hilarious than somebody who takes their hobby way too seriously but doesn't know they take it too seriously. Jeez, when was the last time you saw a newspaper column or editorial provide sources? Take those blinkers off and just accept that outside the AMV community few think much of those fan videos. Just because some talented people manage to make AMVs with broad appeal doesn't invalidate Sturgeon's law (90% of everything is crud, i.e. worthless).


Except if you're going to have a column where you're answering questions is important not to misinform people or just spark further confusion.


Sorry for the very long nested quotes, but I feel they're important to the discussion over all.

Moonlight Soldier, you say Zac is lacking factual grounding for what he wrote about AMVs. I did notice that 20-25% of his response is pure opinion. I've got my own beef with AMVs, but it's not the same as Zac's. As far as people (bands, license holders, etc.), I would say that the folks who submit C&Ds to The Org and other such sites really are few and far between. I've never seen, nor have I heard about, US license holders barging in on a con's AMV contest and demanding that all videos containing footage of one of their licensed properties be removed from the play lists.

I guess, in short, my question to you is where is Zac wrong? Was it about his assertion of pirated software and MP3s? Is is about his opinion on the lack of creativity? I'm not asserting he's right, but I would like to know more of your credibility to say he is dead wrong. Or, am I missing what you were saying entirely?

Drew "Suiko" Sutton
http://akibaren.blogspot.com
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Yoda117



Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 393

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:11 pm Reply with quote
SalarymanJoe wrote:


I guess, in short, my question to you is where is Zac wrong? Was it about his assertion of pirated software and MP3s? Is is about his opinion on the lack of creativity? I'm not asserting he's right, but I would like to know more of your credibility to say he is dead wrong. Or, am I missing what you were saying entirely?



My opinion (which, much like my armpit... usually stinks), is that Moonlight is saying is that Zac sometimes makes a comment but doesn't follow up with how he got to that point. I can understand why that is an issue to some readers (such as myself), but I also understand that reading a page or two from the column is easier than reading 5+ pages with the empirical details of how Zac's experiences and/or research led him to his opinion.

I've always viewed the "Answerman" column as more of an opinion piece based on some empirical data (whether rooted in experience or additional research), and treat it as such. If there is something which needs to be fleshed out more, I find that many of the users of the board end up having the ability to either further support or refute (when need be) the opinions expressed in his articles based on more clearly defined research.

or... maybe I'm just hanging out in left field with you too Laughing
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Koopiskeva



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:44 pm Reply with quote
I think the problem here, is that Zac forgot to wear his party hat.

|:>
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aesling



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:17 pm Reply with quote
I think maybe part of what Moonlight Soldier is getting at here is Zac's opinion of AMV's seems to be a blanket one, that doesn't address any possible evidence to the contrary. Of course Zac is entitled to believe whatever he wants, but if he is going to espouse it to the general public, he also needs to be prepared to argue it properly and back it up with evidence.
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KaneDragon



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:28 pm Reply with quote
Whether you like AMVs or not, generalizing all AMV creators as kids using pirated software and source materials to churn out generic angst videos is hugely unfair and insulting. Youtube is hardly a premium source for AMVs, anyway. Opinions are fine but keep your trolling to yourself.

S:|
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Moonlight Soldier



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:38 am Reply with quote
Oy. I seem to have turned talkback into a journalism discussion.

salaryman wrote:
Or, am I missing what you were saying entirely?


Yes. I'll clarify.

In Zac's case, he answers questions for a column. I'm not saying what he wrote was wrong. Or that he isn't entitled to his opinion. I'm saying he lacks context for a community I don't think he follows regularly.

He makes generalizations without citing how he came to them. That's wrong. He could turn these generalizations into fair comment by pointing to examples. That would be responsible. He can even avoid the long answers by merely linking to pages that readers can peruse.

ANN is a news source. It's not some shotty blog that rarely gets updated and is only read by the authors' uncle and creepy next-door neighbour. Zac has a readership, people ask him questions. He owes it to them to respond fully and accurately.

I work in this industry too. I can tell you people are lazy. If people actually looked up their own information, I wouldn't have a job.

And just in general, I'll give you some basic journalism 101 about what an op-ed piece is. [I do not consider Zac's column to be an op-ed piece by the by.]

To write an op-ed you need to know an issue, who the characters are, arguments/counter-arguments, etc. You then analyse the information. You decide where you stand, mention how you agree/disagree, show the angles and add your own observations/experience. Once you've decided where you stand you put that into a strong, argumentative statement. You then evaluate the facts and use your argument. If you do a good job, you'll sway people to your view.

Granted, most people who write a op-ed pieces have axes to grind. But, they still need to defend and support what they say with facts.
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TarouSatomi



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:54 am Reply with quote
I don't think it's illegal to cosplay in the same way that it is illegal to torrent up AVIs. With cosplay you run afoul of Trademark because someone might think that you were a representative from Disney / whoever, or that you were selling the officially licensed products. This can be a big deal, but that's a far cry from copyright violations where you are redistributing works you didn't create without a license. From reading TM law it seems that you could only be criminally charged if you were selling the outfits... so I think calling them 'illegal' is a bit misleading. And definitely not in the same boat as torrents where even without a sale, you are criminally responsible and can get huge penalties/jail times.

As to the dress patterns and what not, that depends on what country you're in. Different countries have different rules regarding clothing trademark/copyright. However, that's pretty much irrelevant to a coplayer at home who's not using or trafficking in such a pattern... which may not even exist.

As to the 'pictures of cosplay' thing.. obviously, this is a can of worm in and of itself. The fact that the picture may contain images of trademarked and copyrighted characters doesn't diminish the rights of the people photographed, nor of the photographer. Someone wearing a superman T shirt in a photo can still exercise control over the use of their likeness. If the boston globe takes a picture of say, Anime Boston, they can definitely protect their photo from being included in rival newspapers.
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TarouSatomi



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:59 am Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:
When Anime Expo was at Disney there WAS a stipulation against cosplaying Disney characters. For Disney, there is a clear REASOn for that in that their employees are required to behave a certain way and they didn't want non-Expo visitors thinking Expo cosplayers were Disney paid characters and having a bad experience because of attitude. And LEGALLY they can TOTALLY do that. Again, most of the time they WON'T do that, but that isn't to say they CAN'T.


They can do it because they OWN THE PHYSICAL PROPERTY. The local motel 6 - host to Bubba-Con - can enforce the same rules regardless of them not owning Goofy. It's their convention space. They can rent it however they want. IP law doesn't enter into it.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 6979
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:02 am Reply with quote
KaneDragon wrote:
Whether you like AMVs or not, generalizing all AMV creators as kids using pirated software and source materials to churn out generic angst videos is hugely unfair and insulting. Youtube is hardly a premium source for AMVs, anyway. Opinions are fine but keep your trolling to yourself.

SNeutral


I didn't say that at all.

And it looks like people would rather have kneejerk reactions and tell me what my column is and isn't than actually read what I said on the issue.

I didn't "generalize" "all" AMV creators as one thing or another whatsoever. Nor is it my responsibility to point out all the press that AMVs have had. The question asked me - very specifically - whether or not AMVs are legal and what I thought of them.

I answered that question. That I am not carrying a torch for whatever cause you approve of is not a problem with me or the column, it's some wierdo expectation that everything you read parrots your own personal dogma back to you.
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aesling



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:32 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
That I am not carrying a torch for whatever cause you approve of is not a problem with me or the column, it's some wierdo expectation that everything you read parrots your own personal dogma back to you.


I'd hardly say people are expecting you to 'parrot their personal dogma back at them', they just disagree with your opinion, and when that happens it's pretty standard in today's society use evidence to support your claim, rather than just slinging ad hominem arguments at them.
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:35 am Reply with quote
Ahh, except he wasn't using evidence entirely, he was instead attacking Zac's credibility which is taking things a step too far. It's one thing to disagree and one thing to toss out facts, but what we have in this case is another entirely.
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Moonlight Soldier



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:05 am Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:
Ahh, except he wasn't using evidence entirely, he was instead attacking Zac's credibility which is taking things a step too far. It's one thing to disagree and one thing to toss out facts, but what we have in this case is another entirely.


If you're referring to me, I'm holding him accountable, I'm not attacking him. I'm also a she. ^^;

There's nothing in what I wrote that is trying to further any "cause" other than good journalism. If anything I provided concrete examples in my first post to support what he was saying.

I also pointed out there are isolated incidents where commercial AMVs have been produced.

I'm not looking for a flame war buddy, this isn't what this is. It's talkback, it's feedback. It's asking someone to be accountable for what thousands of people read. That's not asking any less of what I expect of any other media outlet.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:24 am Reply with quote
Moonlight Soldier wrote:


If you're referring to me, I'm holding him accountable, I'm not attacking him. I'm also a she. ^^;

There's nothing in what I wrote that is trying to further any "cause" other than good journalism. If anything I provided concrete examples in my first post to support what he was saying.

I also pointed out there are isolated incidents where commercial AMVs have been produced.

I'm not looking for a flame war buddy, this isn't what this is. It's talkback, it's feedback. It's asking someone to be accountable for what thousands of people read. That's not asking any less of what I expect of any other media outlet.



Here's what I don't get about your responses.

You said that I didn't really answer the question, and that in order for me to have done that, I should have also gone out of my way to find all these news articles that presented AMVs in a positive light, and presented as much information as possible about both sides of the issue.

And yet the question asked me about "what I thought of AMVs". My opinion is not necessarily even-handed; in fact, I feel very strongly about AMVs, and the column reflects that.

You then proceeded to say that the column was not, in your estimation, an op/ed piece, which it is. Hey, Answerman! is an editorial column. I've stated that many times. When I get a question that asks for flat-out facts, I try and give them. When someone asks me for my opinion, I give that.

I'm sorry that I didn't give what you consider the "best" answer regarding Anime Music Videos. Next time this happens I'll be sure to message you and ask your advice concerning what my opinion of music videos is.
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