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Hey, Answerman! [2007-03-02]


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ichido reichan



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:04 am Reply with quote
the AMV's has never been "that Illegal" the AMVs spread popularity much faster among fans than normal publicity
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Moonlight Soldier



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:16 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
You said that I didn't really answer the question, and that in order for me to have done that, I should have also gone out of my way to find all these news articles that presented AMVs in a positive light, and presented as much information as possible about both sides of the issue.


Ah right. They're illegal but harmless. My bad.

I don't think that, any of these links I posted present AMVs positively,
A) the post about Record label submitting a cease and desist notice to remove hosting for videos with their artists,
b) a NYT article about what the movie industry thinks of fan videos,
c) the effects of Youtube in the AMV community and some discussion of the laws we break, and the CC licensing.

I guess 'positive light' could come from some posts amid the youtube discussion, and the isolated incident I've posted earlier about commercial AMVs.

I've never mentioned your opinion. I really don't care about how you feel about amvs and whether their creativity has merit.

Anyways, I've said my piece. That's what talkback's about.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 6808
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:54 am Reply with quote
Moonlight Soldier wrote:

I've never mentioned your opinion. I really don't care about how you feel about amvs and whether their creativity has merit.


Then let me ask you something - why in the world do you read the column?

Because anyone who's read it for the last year and a half seems to understand that that's what the column is.

Right now you're running away and refusing to explain yourself, and hiding behind crappy logic and kneejerk reactions.

And I'm glad, because that means you're not really bright enough to actually argue what your real problem is with my answer in a fair and reasonable way. Which means I don't have to expend any brainpower arguing with you.

Go have fun on whatever forum or blog pointed you to this column. Surely they'll understand your point of view and will agree with you that I'm a biased terrible monster who isn't doing his job "right".
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mimage



Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:06 am Reply with quote
Even if he was trying to state his opinions as facts, I don't see why people would get all butt hurt about it.

I have a big passion for amvs, you can tell that just by looking at my profile over at amv.org.. but I'm not going to let this get me steamed up. I urged for the people whining about this over at the org to chill out, I was even hoping the topic would get locked.. but I guess it has the mods panties in a bunch that they won't lock it.

I will say this though..

* I've had a few music artists want me to make an amv to their work and post it on the web for everyone to see and even contacted Mark Chavez the ex singer for Adema and he said he was cool with me posting up a fan made video using his work. Most people wanting me to make some music video with their music set to anime though were close friends.. so this isn't a fact of what all music creators think of fan made music videos using their music.

* Making amvs just gives me some extra need for getting more music and buying more anime for "footage." and another fact to add to this one is that hundreds of editors have purposely bought the expensive R2 versions because of remastered version and pore VHS transfers from the US. An example of this is End of Evangelion. If insisted, I can gather a large amount of resources to prove this true.

* I was in the Navy and everyone I've ever shown amvs seem to loved them(maybe I just have good taste??) I've shown at least 30 or so people and never once has any of them said they don't liked these fan made products. If Zac is only seeing these videos over at youtube then it's natural to think they all are crap. I've ranted a bit about that place because I had a shit hard time finding good videos. Even on the top 20 list of most watched and best rated videos there I saw one of the worst amvs on it with divx logos, subs, horrible synch yet it has a 4.5 out of 5 rating.


I don't care if it's illegal or not.. I don't think that means people are loosing money over it like the anime and music companies. If at least a quarter of of amvers are buying anime because it looked cool in an amv and more music because they follow the guidelines and code of conduct on the org, then for sure anime and music companies shouldn't be threatened by us.

And the people who whine about people stealing edits and clips from their videos do get attacked for whining about people stealing cuts and scenes and special effects that are not originally theirs at the org. I find it funny and usually point it out to those people. I for one don't care if someone steals the clips I used in an amv that is unless it's used to belittle the creator.


That's my opinion.. I wasn't going to touch the topic here.. but changed my mind due to so many people whining over at the org. I thought they would calm down and get over it, instead it's eating away at their consciousness.

ichido reichan wrote:
the AMV's has never been "that Illegal" the AMVs spread popularity much faster among fans than normal publicity
Quite true. I've gotten a numerous amount of people into anime through amvs than I ever have trying to sit someone down to watch an anime with me. Usually if I have my laptop, or someones at my house and my computers on, I'll go "check this out!", and show them an amv that I think would catch there interest. Generally the response is good. That's how I usually get people into anime. Someone would walk in on me while I'm watching one(work, school, home) and someone would ask me what I'm watching, and I would give them the headphones and get usually good feedback.

If you want to get someone into anime, show them an AMV that you'll think they'll like. It's better than trying to get someone to sit down for 30+ minutes to watch a show/movie with ya. Trust me!
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Kouji



Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 978

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:21 am Reply with quote
Moonlight Soldier wrote:
ANN is a news source. It's not some shotty blog that rarely gets updated and is only read by the authors' uncle and creepy next-door neighbour.
Hah, funny you should mention that ANN is just a news source. ANN staff blogs: animenewsnetwork.com/blogs/
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Yoda117



Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:18 pm Reply with quote
TarouSatomi wrote:
I don't think it's illegal to cosplay in the same way that it is illegal to torrent up AVIs. With cosplay you run afoul of Trademark because someone might think that you were a representative from Disney / whoever, or that you were selling the officially licensed products.


Only if the character and likeness thereof has been licensed, trademarked or copyrighted. If it falls under "fair use", you're fine.

Quote:
This can be a big deal, but that's a far cry from copyright violations where you are redistributing works you didn't create without a license. From reading TM law it seems that you could only be criminally charged if you were selling the outfits... so I think calling them 'illegal' is a bit misleading. And definitely not in the same boat as torrents where even without a sale, you are criminally responsible and can get huge penalties/jail times.


The Copyright Act of 2000 and NET Act of 1997 make it quite clear that distribution of copyrighted materials, even without purposes of renumeration (monetary, material, or otherwise) is illegal. These statutes have been successfully enforced in both US Federal and International Courts (the latter using the Berne Convention)

Quote:
As to the dress patterns and what not, that depends on what country you're in. Different countries have different rules regarding clothing trademark/copyright. However, that's pretty much irrelevant to a coplayer at home who's not using or trafficking in such a pattern... which may not even exist.


While true on the face of the argument this brings up a question regarding the location where this occurs. While not enforced within the anime community (thank goodness), the Berne Convention is an international treaty for the protection of literary and artistic works (though other forms of IP have also used Berne as well). Long story short, countries which have adopted the convention (such as the US, Canada, Japan, EU, etc.) honor the IP laws of other countries. While this is primarily a convention protecting literary works, it has been used successfully in regards to visual media as well.

This has lead to some problems with Article 10 of the convention, the Fair Use Clause. To this end, the limitations of this article are currently being examined for possible amendment. Additionally, the US is currently drafting it's own Fair Use legislation to meet with changes in technology not explicitly covered by Berne.

Sorry... this provided a good way to introduce the topic and show it's part.

Quote:
As to the 'pictures of cosplay' thing.. obviously, this is a can of worm in and of itself. The fact that the picture may contain images of trademarked and copyrighted characters doesn't diminish the rights of the people photographed, nor of the photographer. Someone wearing a superman T shirt in a photo can still exercise control over the use of their likeness.


Depends on location.

The person wearing a Superman T-shirt (assuming it's a licensed product) is not violating any laws, which makes it a moot point. However, if the person is in a public place or area, they do not quite enjoy the full protection to their rights of privacy to keep from being photographed, since they are in a public spectrum (it's an sketchy line, but must be mentioned). Moreover, many cons now make it a requirement of registration that the attendees agree to waive their rights to being photographed (while also instructing those taking pictures to request permission prior to photographing someone). The point is not to reduce the rights of the attendees, but to indemnify and protect the convention from harm should someone try to use this as a vector for a future lawsuit.

Quote:
If the boston globe takes a picture of say, Anime Boston, they can definitely protect their photo from being included in rival newspapers.


Now I'm being nitpicky. If it's a staff photographer in the sole employ of the Globe, then yes. If not, then they can potentially exercise their rights to sell the photos to whomever they want (e.g., an Associated Press photographer, or a stringer).

That's a bit of a stretch, but several "stringers" cover events for one publication or entity, yet maintain their right to sell photographs to other organizations based on the contract they have with the sponsoring entity.
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Ningensei



Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 333
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:33 pm Reply with quote
Having been a dedicated reader of ANN for over two years, I am still amazed every time whenever someone complains about Zac's columns for being misleading or biased or unfair.

This seems quite ridiculous considering Zac himself does not claim to be some objective fact source catering to all sides of a particular topic or issue.

I think that if you are not willing to accept or read about other people's opinions if they do not coincide with yours, then you should just stop reading the article. It is apparent that Zac is not going to change the format of the columns to suppress his opinions, nor do I think he should.

On a side note: I have finally decided to join forum discussions after only reading reviews, news and columns for the past two years. I have never been part of an online forum before so I was a little intimidated, but I am glad I did now. I look forward to participating in more discussions in the future!
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alayajoy



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:19 pm Reply with quote
Welcome Back! I missed this column! But it was for a good cause right? Hope the con was as good as advertised! And I loved the corgi puppy!

On the other hand, it seems someone needs a chill pill. Not only was said someone going completely off topic, but I DON'T CARE. I don't read this column for jounalistic value. I read it for entertainment. So chill. 'Kay!

As for the screencaps, loved it! I love mistakes! It just goes to show that we are all human!
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darkchibi07



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 3750

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:02 pm Reply with quote
alayajoy wrote:

On the other hand, it seems someone needs a chill pill. Not only was said someone going completely off topic, but I DON'T CARE. I don't read this column for jounalistic value. I read it for entertainment. So chill. 'Kay!


So in other words you didn't even try to understand what the heck they're talking about, am I right? Is it just me or does it completely defeats the purpose of what the column is supposed to be and that's to inform the peers?

Or maybe it is a little bit of both informative and entertainment which gets very tricky to distinguish.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 7207
Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:05 pm Reply with quote
A very entertaining read, both Answerman and this thread. I love it when people go off on a tangent when they obviously haven't read what it was that sparked that tangent in the first place. I wonder if it should be a banning offence for not reading the news and views before posting as well. Wink
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Yoda117



Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:11 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
A very entertaining read, both Answerman and this thread. I love it when people go off on a tangent when they obviously haven't read what it was that sparked that tangent in the first place. I wonder if it should be a banning offence for not reading the news and views before posting as well. Wink


You mean, make it less like /. ?

Perish the thought...
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 7207
Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:23 pm Reply with quote
Yoda117 wrote:
Mohawk52 wrote:
A very entertaining read, both Answerman and this thread. I love it when people go off on a tangent when they obviously haven't read what it was that sparked that tangent in the first place. I wonder if it should be a banning offence for not reading the news and views before posting as well. Wink


You mean, make it less like /. ?

Perish the thought...
Translated means?
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Yoda117



Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:28 pm Reply with quote
[quote="Mohawk52"]

Quote:
Translated means?


/. = Slashdot

they have a habit of:

A ) commenting without having read the article.

B ) going horribly off-topic with tangents.
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